Mountain West Microbrew: Chit chat and irrelevancy

[Cirrus]

Here's something we can all commiserate on: Cameroon Booth, of the very popular Transit Maps blog, has ranked SLC and Denver as the two overall worst rapid transit maps in North America. At least we have maps. #TakeThatBoise.

Originally Posted by Transit Maps Blog

Question
http://transitmaps.tumblr.com/post/76765...on-which-official-north-american-transit

In your opinion, which official North American transit map is in the most need of a redesign?

Answer
I think I’ve made my absolute disdain of the Salt Lake City UTA TRAX/FrontRunner map pretty clear; Denver’s rail map is also pretty bad, and will need a complete overhaul soon when all the new FasTracks projects open — light rail along I-225, commuter rail to all points north, BRT along US 36 to Boulder.

Here's his review of the SLC map, and here's his take on Denver.

Originally Posted by Transit Maps Blog on SLC UTA map

Salt Lake City UTA TRAX and FrontRunner: now officially the most embarrassing transit maps in the U.S. Seriously. These maps are… beyond appalling.

It’s painfully obvious to me that a low-quality JPG has been exported for each map, and the service that is not meant to be shown has been deleted in Photoshop using the eraser tool. And they’ve done a really bad job of it, too. Please: can someone — anyone! — design a decent rail map for the UTA and make them use it, because this is is just pathetic. ZERO STARS.

Originally Posted by Transit Maps Blog on Denver RTD map

Here’s a transit map that can’t seem to make up its mind whether it is a rectilinear diagram or a geographically accurate map, and it ends up paying a price for that indecision. Overlaying the routes on a city-wide street grid can work well (see the Barcelona map posted previously), but here it seems to force the routes to be subservient to their geography, rather than the other way around. The labelling of the roads is also far too small to be really useful, and they often struggle to stand out from the oppressive grey background the map is placed on. There’s also some odd design choices, like placing the routes on the south-eastern leg out of alphabetical order: “H”, “E” and “F”, when it would be very easy to run the blue “H” line to the right of the red “F” line and maintain the correct order.

Theres' lack of craftsmanship in the drawing of the route lines. Spacing between the lines varies widely and curves are very uneven, creating a very slip-shod feel to the map. Extremely cramped downtown area and heavy-handed treatment of the free mall transfer bus service. Legend and fare boxes look very tacked on.

Our rating: It is clear and easy to understand, just unexciting and technically poor. Needs to evoke “Denver” a lot more to be truly successful. Two stars.

They're so bad, he's devoted multiple posts to attacking them both, following addition of new lines. Here's his 2nd attack on SLC, and here's 2nd on Denver.

Originally Posted by Transit Maps Blog 2nd attack on SLC UTA map

I must say I am not overly impressed with UTA’s revision of their rail map—which will begin to be posted in trains once UTA’s first streetcar, the S Line, opens. Yes, it certainly is better than before. Removing addresses from the map did wonders for improving legibility. But that’s about it. Call me old fashioned, but shouldn’t the lines below the station names roughly correspond to the length of the word? And why doesn’t N. Temple Bridge/Guadalupe receive a callout box when it also is a transfer station involving TRAX, FrontRunner, and local bus service?

When I last reviewed Salt Lake City’s rail transit map back in April, word reached me via Twitter that the UTA’s graphic designers were hard at work on a new map slated for a December release. And here we are: hardly worth the wait, really. Tiny baby steps have been taken by removing the street addresses of the stations, but almost all the previous faults are still present. The labeling of stations remains an awful, convoluted mess and the giant callout boxes at transfer stations are still completely unnecessary. Downtown is a disgrace, with eight stations crammed into the tiniest of spaces: so small that most of those stations have to have a smaller station dot to compensate. Meanwhile, the new “S Line” streetcar, which is only 2.1 miles long, stretches luxuriously off to the right side of the map, way larger in scale than it should ever be.

This map needs to be crumpled up, thrown away and never used as a template again. Seriously, who at the UTA actually approves this? Who actually says, “Wow! That looks great! Let’s print some signs and put it on the website!” Start from scratch. Abandon the pseudo-geographical layout that actually has no consistent scale. Take a diagrammatic approach and expand the downtown area (so we can read the station names!) while compressing the outlying ones. Make the FrontRunner follow a completely straight path from end to end — a compositional vertical axis for the rest of the map. Ditch the freakin’ terrible compass rose. Anything but this.

Originally Posted by Transit Maps Blog 2nd attack on Denver RTD map

Transit Maps reviewed Denver’s light rail map way back in October 2011. We weren’t too impressed with it then, and nothing much has changed with this new edition that marks today’s opening of the new (aqua) West Line out to Golden.

The route lines on the map are still very poorly dawn. Lines that run parallel to each other appear to have been drawn individually, rather than offsetting a master line with the tools available in most illustration software to ensure accuracy. As a result, there’s some very ugly and inconsistent gaps between routes in places. The curves are also generally badly drawn. Finally, it looks as if the designer forgot to group all the roads together before reducing their opacity: it looks especially horrid where I-25 and I-225 intersect. Still two stars.

[seventwenty]

Typical East Coast Elitist. Liking form over function.

[Cirrus]

That's bi-coastal elitism. Booth is from Portland.

[seventwenty]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

That's bi-coastal elitism. Booth is from Portland.

He didn't post, though. You did, you elitist.

And Portland? They're still just mad at Seattle. How can any American city without a big 3.5 airline hub even think they're elite?

[Cirrus]

Portland is what Boulder should be.

[seventwenty]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Portland is what Boulder should be.

What? Annoying? They already are. Besides, Berkeley is what Boulder should be.

[Cirrus]

Bigger.

Berkeley is what Boulder wants to be, but shouldn't.

[Stenar]

SLC Projects wrote where the athletes reside now. Not where they grew up.

If you count athletes who currently reside in Utah at these Olympics, we have 40. There are 14 other Olympians in Sochi who attended college in Utah.

Kotsenburg was born in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho but grew up in Park City, Utah.


Colorado has only 21 Olympians who reside in Colorado.

Originally Posted by Sawtooth

Native Idahoan Kaitlyn is going to most likely have a run at Sun Valley named for her.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2014/02/15/3030097/idaho-olympic-star-cant-wait-to.html



Sage is also an Idaho native.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

No, but I think many of the SLC people here on this forum have been breathing in the SLC smog, and it has now reached their brain cells.

Well, I don't think SLC Projects is a native English speaker, so he may not get sarcasm all the time.

Even when you're being sarcastic, there seems to be a bit of belief on your end that it's partly true, thus people correcting you—not the CO gold medal thing, that was an obvious joke, your athletes would never get many medals—but in regards to SLC.

[Sawtooth]

Originally Posted by Stenar

SLC Projects wrote where the athletes reside now. Not where they grew up.

If you count athletes who currently reside in Utah at these Olympics, we have 40. There are 14 other Olympians in Sochi who attended college in Utah.

Kotsenburg was born in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho but grew up in Park City, Utah.


Colorado has only 21 Olympians who reside in Colorado.

Earlier you said Kotsenburg was a native of your planet, unless you have edited your post.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Well, I don't think SLC Projects is a native English speaker, so he may not get sarcasm all the time.

I'm more of a native klingon speaker.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Sawtooth

Earlier you said Kotsenburg was a native of your planet, unless you have edited your post.

You obviously have problems with reading comprehension.

[Sawtooth]

Originally Posted by Stenar

You obviously have problems with reading comprehension.

Have a good night bud.

[Stenar]

The 10 Colleges With The Most US Olympians In Sochi

1. Westminster College, Salt Lake City, 23 Olympic athletes
2. University of Wisconsin, 10 athletes
3. Dartmouth College, 9 athletes
4. University of Utah, 8 athletes
4. University of Minnesota, 8 athletes
6. University of Michigan, 6 athletes
7. University of North Dakota, 4 athletes
7. Harvard University, 4 athletes
7. Boston College, 4 athletes
7. Alaska Pacific University, 4 athletes

Source: www.businessinsider.in


WHAT!? No college or university from Colorado in the top 10, but TWO from Utah??? hehe

[BoiseAirport]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

At least we have maps. #TakeThatBoise.

Shoot, no argument here, I'll be the first one to applaud you guys on your transit. I think we're all heading in the right direction, the future will be exciting.

[PLANSIT]

Olympics won, then turned down.

Denver - 1
SLC - 0

[The Dirt]

Fixed it for you:

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Olympics won, then turned down.

Denver - 1
The World - 0

We were too good for the Olympics - the only city in the world to do that! Once SLC gets awarded the Olympics and turns it down, only then can they say that they are playing in the same league.

In all seriousness, I think the Olympics (esp. the winter games) would be terrible for Denver.

[rds70]

Here is a good way to compare the economic importance of each city: office space and GMP.

According to this report: http://www.comre.com/reports/2013Reports/Utah/YearEnd2013Report_Utah.pdf

The Wasatch Front (SLC, Ogden, Provo) contains about 47 million square feet of office space, with about 11 million in the downtown SLC area (giving the benefit of the doubt that "periphery" actually includes downtown space.

Compare that to Denver (http://www.cassidyturley.com/DesktopModu...eName=4Q+2013+Denver+Office+Snapshot.pdf) with 160 million square feet of office space in the metro area and 34 million in downtown.

Not even close.

GMP estimated for 2014 (http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/2013/201311-report.pdf):

Denver CSA $214 billion.

SLC CSA $119 billion

[The Dirt]

But hurr durr Olympics and ski resorts!

Edit: clearly I have nothing constructive to add. I'll say one thing. The BART transit system map is leagues better than what we or SLC have. We should copy them.

[seventwenty]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

But hurr durr Olympics and ski resorts!

Edit: clearly I have nothing constructive to add. I'll say one thing. The BART transit system map is leagues better than what we or SLC have. We should copy them.

Nothing to add? Not even trolling? You bring shame to Denver. You ought to move to Highlands Ranch and live out your days hating everything urban.