Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[delts145]

I very much agree with you Comrade. There's more than enough room for sexy towers and dense urban mid-rise in the CBD. If Salt Lake continues along the current path of more and taller high-rises, more mid-rise infill, and continued emphasis on alternate street scape, such as bike lanes, light rail, BRT, Trolley, etc., we will be in for an ever evolving increased density.

[jtrent77]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

When it comes to density, SLC will never feel dense. When you look at dense cities (Rome, Seattle, Paris, Washington DC, London, etc.) they do not have a grid system when it comes to their streets. Not having a grid system allows views from street levels to feel more dense. Obviously with a grid you can see all the way down a street. But with a non-grid system you can maybe look down a street and see a building front and center a couple blocks down. Also SLC's wide streets and large blocks will never allow it to have an overall dense feel.

Washington DC is actually very much based on a grid system (everything is based upon it's relation to the Capitol with numbered streets running North-South and Lettered streets running East-West. While there are some additional streets to the grid (all state roads are diagonal etc.) saying DC is not a grid system is grossly in error. Manhattan is also very much based on a grid and I think everyone would agree it feels dense.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by jtrent77

Washington DC is actually very much based on a grid system (everything is based upon it's relation to the Capitol with numbered streets running North-South and Lettered streets running East-West. While there are some additional streets to the grid (all state roads are diagonal etc.) saying DC is not a grid system is grossly in error. Manhattan is also very much based on a grid and I think everyone would agree it feels dense.

Does this look like SLC's grid system? (Washington DC) I never said anything about Manhattan.



Didn't think so.

[Comrade]

Salt Lake's problem isn't the grid, as San Francisco is very dense and mostly built on a grid:



Our problem continues to be the wide blocks and wide streets. The latter which hinders the feel of dense neighborhoods. Take State Street, specifically the area from 8th South on down to 1700 South - it's a rather built up street, with most parking not fronting the actual street, so, there aren't massive lots in front of the buildings. They hug the sidewalks and, if the street was narrower, it would appear more walkable and dense than it actually is. But the wideness of the streets gives off the illusion it's way more suburban than it actually is.

Salt Lake's grid isn't necessarily the problem, as it could be built up and dense (look at Denver), rather it's the wideness of its blocks and streets. That can't be changed, unfortunately. But I think the city is doing about as well as it can with it - especially downtown. I'd love for them to try to narrow State like they did Main within the CBD, but that could prove problematic.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Salt Lake's problem isn't the grid, as San Francisco is very dense and mostly built on a grid:

Our problem continues to be the wide blocks and wide streets. The latter which hinders the feel of dense neighborhoods. Take State Street, specifically the area from 8th South on down to 1700 South - it's a rather built up street, with most parking not fronting the actual street, so, there aren't massive lots in front of the buildings. They hug the sidewalks and, if the street was narrower, it would appear more walkable and dense than it actually is. But the wideness of the streets gives off the illusion it's way more suburban than it actually is.

Salt Lake's grid isn't necessarily the problem, as it could be built up and dense (look at Denver), rather it's the wideness of its blocks and streets. That can't be changed, unfortunately. But I think the city is doing about as well as it can with it - especially downtown. I'd love for them to try to narrow State like they did Main within the CBD, but that could prove problematic.

That's what I already said! It is a combination of the large blocks, wide streets, and the overall grid system.

[jimmycdii]

As others have hinted, the grid and the wide streets shouldn't be equated or necessarily tied together. They're not the same thing and they pose entirely different problems. There are other cities with similar sized grids (Melbourne, for example) that manage to make them vibrant and human scaled.

I personally like the grid and think that it can work just fine. Case in point, Barcelona, which has a fairly rigid, square grid but feels dense, charming and vibrant. We're hundreds of years from this, but I think it'd be a nice goal:

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by jimmycdii

As others have hinted, the grid and the wide streets shouldn't be equated or necessarily tied together. They're not the same thing and they pose entirely different problems. There are other cities with similar sized grids (Melbourne, for example) that manage to make them vibrant and human scaled.

I personally like the grid and think that it can work just fine. Case in point, Barcelona, which has a fairly rigid, square grid but feels dense, charming and vibrant. We're hundreds of years from this, but I think it'd be a nice goal:

It's just so beautiful. How awesome if the Gateway District was built up like this. Murray is working on it. Have you guys driving by and seen all the work going on around the 54 south trax station. That is going to be nice. West Valley is building up pretty nice too. I would still really like to see this density in the Gateway Area DT

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

It's just so beautiful. How awesome if the Gateway District was built up like this. Murray is working on it. Have you guys driving by and seen all the work going on around the 54 south trax station. That is going to be nice. West Valley is building up pretty nice too. I would still really like to see this density in the Gateway Area DT

What's going on near the 54th Station? I wasn't aware of much happening there.


Some of you make it seem like it's simply unwilling or non visionary developers that are the reason we aren't getting more residential over 5-7 stories, and that the LDS church is the only ones who are willing to be bold and build tall residential. That is completely false. The reason is the market, plain and simple. As others have pointed out there currently isn't an over abundance of demand for high wealth primary residential in the CBD, there is some and it is continuing to grow, but it's not as high as it needs to be yet. As is evidenced by the current occupancy of the CCC condos.

The demand will grow as Salt Lake continues to attract high end companies with wages much higher than the State Median Income, companies such as Goldman Sacs. Companies that will bring people in from their out of state offices to fill positions and companies that will attract people from out of state. Case in point, when Goldman moved into 222 and expanded their SLC presence, several dozen units were either purchased or rented by those new employees at American Towers. Another thing that will increase the demand is younger people, recent college grads moving into these new 5-7 story units, because they want to be near downtown. Some of these people will be the people that if they can continue to work in downtown and make a very good living, will demand higher end units.

So while many would hope for more high rise residential than high rise commercial, we need those new highrise commercial buildings to attract the larger companies that pay higher wages, resulting in more demand for high end residential highrises.

One critical thing that needs to happen is attracting those businesses to the CBD. Last spring, as I was considering a run for City Council, my biggest focus was going to be working more closely with the GOED to focus more on funneling incentives for new companies to locate to the CBD, rather than just simply provide incentive for companies to move to the state. To refine those incentives to take advantage of existing infrastructure rather than increasing demand for new infrastructure. The same amount of incentive for a company to move to downtown gives the state an overall greater economic impact than that same amount of money used to bring them to the burbs where the local municipality has to spend money on infrastructure upgrades.

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by RosePark

SLC is featured in the following poll to determine the US's ten best convention cities:

http://www.10best.com/awards/travel/best-convention-city/

Currently Indianapolis leads the way

Of all the photos they could have used... it's this one..



What the hell? All of the other cities got awesome pics!!

This is a MAJOR pet-peeve of mine.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

Of all the photos they could have used... it's this one..



What the hell? All of the other cities got awesome pics!!

This is a MAJOR pet-peeve of mine.

This is one of the reasons why outsiders "think" that Salt Lake City is a tiny town. Websites keep using Pre City Creek Center skyline photos that date back as far as 2000.

[jtrent77]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

Does this look like SLC's grid system? (Washington DC) I never said anything about Manhattan.



Didn't think so.

Yes, it does actually. The only thing that is different is the additional of diagonal streets. As someone that has lived in SLC and someone that currently lives in Washington DC, I can tell you right now, they are both very much set up on a grid system. The difference being that all of DC has more hills in the city, so when you look down a street you may not see all the way because there is a hill in front of you. Further, everything in DC that is a "skyscraper" goes to the exact same height because of height restrictions within the city.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

Of all the photos they could have used... it's this one..



What the hell? All of the other cities got awesome pics!!

This is a MAJOR pet-peeve of mine.

My sentiments exactly ToysNoiz. It seems pretty intentional also. Notice how they almost tried to exclude the Wasatch as if it doesn't even exist. Then cities with a pretty mediocre setting are given glam they hardly deserve. I will say that yesterday FOX covered the doctor, who was stranded up above Park City while skiing pretty in depth. While interviewing him they used a phenomenal backdrop of Salt Lake and the Wasatch. It was surreally beautiful. Television/News Media seems to be doing a pretty good job of using SLC's advantageous setting lately.

[Wasatch_One]

This doesnt have anything to do with SLC itself, but kind of due to Property Reserve Inc building it. But did anyone see this (or am I just late to the party in learning about it? )

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20140213_Mormons_to_build_32-story_tower_in_Center_City.html

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by Wasatch_One

This doesnt have anything to do with SLC itself, but kind of due to Property Reserve Inc building it. But did anyone see this (or am I just late to the party in learning about it? )

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20140213_Mormons_to_build_32-story_tower_in_Center_City.html

Wow, very cool. I have close connections and such in Philly, so I'm very excited. This project sounds very cool. Hopefully it'll get approved. Sometimes funny things can happen (for the worse) when the Mormon church tries to get things approved in certain cities...politics, etc.

[ctobsl]

A 32-story apartment tower 360 feet.
That would fit in nice here in our Down Town and at "market prices".

"Tenants need not be Mormons to rent an apartment or townhouse in the development, officials said. They said the units would rent at market prices."

[UV4EVER]

How about something like this for Salt Lake's iconic tower?



http://www.upworthy.com/see-the-forest-thats-growing-within-a-concrete-block-in-milan?c=ufb1

The towers were designed by Stefano Boeri, Gianandrea Barreca, and Giovanni La Varra. The "Vertical Forest in Milan" video is by Stefano Boeri Architetti.

[jimmycdii]

That development in Phllly is really fascinating. Maybe I missed this, but does anyone know why the church is doing it? My impression was that most of the church's business enterprises at least ostensibly filled some church objective, but that doesn't see to as clearly be the case here. Any thoughts?

Also, I thought the similarities to the 99 West were interesting (assuming I'm looking at the correct tower). Given the church's influence in Utah I always wished it would develop a real architectural style (McMansion chapels don't count in my book). I was usually thinking in terms of meeting houses, but maybe it's slowly heading in that direction for skyscrapers instead.

[Future Mayor]

My guess as to why they are building the tower is similar to why they built City Creek Center. They want to invest in the are near the Philadelphia Temple in order to create something of quality and value adjacent to it. Something of architectural value that compliments the temple. Something that will enhance the block, rather than simply hoping that someone else develops the property into something that may or may not enhance the block in a way that the LDS church feels is complimentary to their new temple.

Plus Property reserve is a for profit entity and if they see a potential to invest in a growing area, which most downtowns are (except maybe Detroit ) it's a smart business move to make that investment. Diversity in Real Estate holdings/locations is usually a smart investment.

I to noticed that it does have a striking resemblance to 99 West. It's even the same number of floors, but 15' shorter.

[jtrent77]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

My guess as to why they are building the tower is similar to why they built City Creek Center. They want to invest in the are near the Philadelphia Temple in order to create something of quality and value adjacent to it. Something of architectural value that compliments the temple. Something that will enhance the block, rather than simply hoping that someone else develops the property into something that may or may not enhance the block in a way that the LDS church feels is complimentary to their new temple.

Plus Property reserve is a for profit entity and if they see a potential to invest in a growing area, which most downtowns are (except maybe Detroit ) it's a smart business move to make that investment. Diversity in Real Estate holdings/locations is usually a smart investment.

I to noticed that it does have a striking resemblance to 99 West. It's even the same number of floors, but 15' shorter.

I think there might be more too it than that though. While we are just hearing about it now, I have a feeling that this was agreed upon a while ago. The temple is on a PRIME piece of real estate that has been taken out of the tax base because it is a religious building. My guess is that the church agreed to build this building to help offset the "loss" of taxes on the other piece of property.

[goldcntry]

Originally Posted by jimmycdii

That development in Phllly is really fascinating. Maybe I missed this, but does anyone know why the church is doing it? My impression was that most of the church's business enterprises at least ostensibly filled some church objective, but that doesn't see to as clearly be the case here. Any thoughts?

I'll keep my ears open and try and tap a couple of contacts I have at PRI...