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  #181  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2014, 9:09 PM
migol24 migol24 is offline
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Originally Posted by tie_guy View Post
Hmmmm... Not sure how that works, but I was in San Francisco a few months ago and there was for sure a Starbucks in the Castro. Right on Castro St, I believe. I didn't see any in the Mission, however.
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Originally Posted by austlar1 View Post
Looks like there are at leasrt 60 Starbucks within the city of San Francisco, most of them are east of Twin Peaks. The map is interactive. Scroll to the west and more stores pop up.

http://www.starbucks.com/store-locat...san%20fracisco
Yes, there are a gazillion starbucks in almost every corner... and that's why San Francisco has implemented anti-chain laws and its a very good reason why there are hardly any chains on the Mission, not a single WalMart and only one Target in the city, which opened only recently back in 2012.

http://www.sf-planning.org/index.aspx?page=2839

I wonder how we can incorporate some of that here in Austin. I mean, if there are organizations like DANA who oversee these kinds of things, shouldn't those organizations be pressured to lobby for more local retail? Where are the NIMBYs when you need them? In this case, I feel the urgency to be a NIMBY.
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  #182  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2014, 11:37 PM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
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Target, H and M, or other retailers no doubt investigated the possibility of opening in downtown. They obviously have passed on the opportunity so far. The projections don't work for them. They rely on the customer who prefers to drive to shop. That includes the vast majority of shoppers in the Austin metro. Improve parking opportunities downtown along with shopping options, and I think the area becomes more viable. This is especially true due to the growing resident population and continued presence of out of town visitors. It does no good to preach about public transit options. The simple fact is that downtown Austin is not yet a convenient place for most transit riders to access for shopping. There are not enough people interested in riding a bus downtown to shop.

Even cities like San Francisco try to make it easy (or relatively easy) for people to come into downtown and shop. The Union Square area and other parts of downtown SF are well served with parking garages featuring hourly rates that don't completely bust the budget. Here is a link to information about a few of these facilities. These facilities exist and attract well heeled shoppers in spite of the fact that downtown SF is one of the most transit rich shopping districts in the US.

http://www.unionsquareshop.com/parking.html

Chicago's Miracle Mile (well served by transit) also sports numerous (fairly pricey) parking options. Here is information about some of them:

http://www.themagnificentmile.com/maps/parking/

Last edited by austlar1; Feb 12, 2014 at 12:38 AM.
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  #183  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by migol24 View Post
Yes, there are a gazillion starbucks in almost every corner... and that's why San Francisco has implemented anti-chain laws and its a very good reason why there are hardly any chains on the Mission, not a single WalMart and only one Target in the city, which opened only recently back in 2012.

http://www.sf-planning.org/index.aspx?page=2839

I wonder how we can incorporate some of that here in Austin. I mean, if there are organizations like DANA who oversee these kinds of things, shouldn't those organizations be pressured to lobby for more local retail? Where are the NIMBYs when you need them? In this case, I feel the urgency to be a NIMBY.
DANA does not oversee anything and has no legal authority. They are an association of persons and businesses interested in the development of downtown. Austin is not likely to implement a law similar to the one operating in SF any time soon. Hell, most people on this forum would love to see some national chain retail show up downtown. There is hardly any of that at the present time. My understanding is that the SF law slowed the spread of multiple chain locations in SF, but supposedly almost 75% of the businesses that actually go through the application and hearing process are allowed to open shop. That may not apply to poor old Starbucks. Everybody loves to hate Starbucks, but I would remind you that prior to Starbucks it was not all that easy to get a decent espresso in most places in this country. I am just saying....

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/31/san_...tores_get_out/
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  #184  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 1:16 AM
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Originally Posted by austlar1 View Post
DANA does not oversee anything and has no legal authority. They are an association of persons and businesses interested in the development of downtown. Austin is not likely to implement a law similar to the one operating in SF any time soon. Hell, most people on this forum would love to see some national chain retail show up downtown. There is hardly any of that at the present time. My understanding is that the SF law slowed the spread of multiple chain locations in SF, but supposedly almost 75% of the businesses that actually go through the application and hearing process are allowed to open shop. That may not apply to poor old Starbucks. Everybody loves to hate Starbucks, but I would remind you that prior to Starbucks it was not all that easy to get a decent espresso in most places in this country. I am just saying....

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/31/san_...tores_get_out/
I think everyone is okay with having a decent balance between chains and local retail. What I'm saying is what can we do as a community and a city to influence the fabric of our city. I don't care who hates or doesn't hate Starbucks. As a barista I'm fully aware how Starbucks has influenced the coffee culture here in America. But that doesn't mean we should let it open up shop whenever where ever. We should push for a healthy balance between local stores and chains, is my basic argument. And I merely used Starbucks as a prime example of how not keeping tabs on chains can go wrong. For all that's being discussed about 7-11, Starbucks has at least five shops in the downtown area and its gonna continue if the city really doesn't do anything about it, even if with said laws 75% of stores do end up opening up.

In my fantasy, I'd like for the usual convenient stores like CVS, Walgreens, 711, etc to be conveniently located. I'd also wouldn't mind seeing a major grocery store like HEB, or Target. But foremost, I'd like the local shops to be the cornerstone of what makes downtown our own unique character.
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  #185  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 3:13 AM
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Originally Posted by migol24 View Post
I think everyone is okay with having a decent balance between chains and local retail. What I'm saying is what can we do as a community and a city to influence the fabric of our city. I don't care who hates or doesn't hate Starbucks. As a barista I'm fully aware how Starbucks has influenced the coffee culture here in America. But that doesn't mean we should let it open up shop whenever where ever. We should push for a healthy balance between local stores and chains, is my basic argument. And I merely used Starbucks as a prime example of how not keeping tabs on chains can go wrong. For all that's being discussed about 7-11, Starbucks has at least five shops in the downtown area and its gonna continue if the city really doesn't do anything about it, even if with said laws 75% of stores do end up opening up.

In my fantasy, I'd like for the usual convenient stores like CVS, Walgreens, 711, etc to be conveniently located. I'd also wouldn't mind seeing a major grocery store like HEB, or Target. But foremost, I'd like the local shops to be the cornerstone of what makes downtown our own unique character.
Downtown SF shopping (widely considered to be some of the best shopping in the country) is mostly comprised of stores owned by nationwide chains. All of the large department stores and most of the specialty clothing stores are chain operations. They tend to be very good examples of their brand, but they are chain operations.

In my fantasy, I would like to see one or two major department stores and a variety of high end and mass market clothing and home accessory stores located in downtown Austin. Of course it would be nice to have local specialty stores to add some spice and variety.
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  #186  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 3:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ahealy View Post
The bottom line here is how much of a massive failure Congress Ave is right now retail-wise. We've heard reports from DANA that they plan to make Congress a "shopping destination"....for what? tall boys and marlboro lights?? I remember we were all talking about the possibility of a Target in the AMOA space. BUT 7-11?????! Somebody needs to be fired. I know I sound a bit dramatic, but seriously....theres brooks brothers and some tacky gift shops along with a few shitty restaurants north of 7th on Congress.

We are turing into a big city...and very quickly. I understand that it can't all come together at once, but the foundation that is being laid worries me.

ps. Not to crap all over DANA, but isn't it their job to select the proper tenants to form a habitable urban neighborhood?
Maybe I'm just being optimistic (and believe me, it's not a trait I typically have), but I'm going to take this as a good sign of the health of downtown. Any time a national retail chain is spotting a deal and acting on it is a good sign. Think about it, 7-11 is very much a pro at assessing markets for profit and opening stores in those markets. I take this as a sign that downtown's retail market is healthy, and that there is demand. Now how that demand is satisfied and whether it's by local retail is another matter. My hope is that these type of stores, 7-11 and Starbucks are more like placeholders until something local and legit can come along. As you say, ahealy, we are quickly becoming a big city, and I think eventually the momentum of growth is eventually going to be such that even smaller local businesses are able to enter into it and have profit.
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  #187  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 4:37 AM
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If I lived dt or was staying at a hotel dt, I would welcome a place to go to get a six pack or pack of cigs, cup of coffee, whatever...As it is, I live outside of RR and can walk to a number of convenience type stores that are within 5 minutes from my house. If I lived in the 4Season's, what are my options?
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  #188  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 4:46 AM
pscajunguy pscajunguy is offline
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Originally Posted by migol24 View Post
I think everyone is okay with having a decent balance between chains and local retail. What I'm saying is what can we do as a community and a city to influence the fabric of our city. I don't care who hates or doesn't hate Starbucks. As a barista I'm fully aware how Starbucks has influenced the coffee culture here in America. But that doesn't mean we should let it open up shop whenever where ever. We should push for a healthy balance between local stores and chains, is my basic argument. And I merely used Starbucks as a prime example of how not keeping tabs on chains can go wrong. For all that's being discussed about 7-11, Starbucks has at least five shops in the downtown area and its gonna continue if the city really doesn't do anything about it, even if with said laws 75% of stores do end up opening up.

In my fantasy, I'd like for the usual convenient stores like CVS, Walgreens, 711, etc to be conveniently located. I'd also wouldn't mind seeing a major grocery store like HEB, or Target. But foremost, I'd like the local shops to be the cornerstone of what makes downtown our own unique character.
Nobody really lives on the Corner of Montgomery and California in the Financial District. To me, there are HUNDREDS of "downtowns" in San Francisco which compromise the lifeblood of very specific multinational ethnic groups from ALL OVER THE WORLD! SF has the largest Nepalese population in the US, and they have their own neighborhood in the Tender Knob. Almost every other nation in the world has a significant neighborhood somewhere in The City. In fact, there are hundreds of them, but you have not lived anywhere near the length of time that one has to live in San Francisco to have a fairly good knowledge of, or have been to many of them so that you can really have an unbiased opinion. I'm sure that you know the difference between a Honduran restaurant, an El Salvadoran Restaurant and a Mexican restaurant in the Mission, and that you have some idea about where in the Mission are the Honduran, the Nicaraguan, the El Salvadoran, the Mexican, etc. neighborhoods. You probably even know somewhat about the significance of different colors that they wear.
As far as Walgreen's, the one on 18th and Castro is stocked with more items than you will EVER see in any other Walgreen's. The Safeway on Market is large, well-stocked and has much cheaper prices than any HEB one could ever find in Texas. For those who want the Ultimate Safeway, and have the luxury of being able to afford the costs of having a vehicle in SF, there is the beautiful Safeway in Diamond Heights. But public transportation in San Francisco is more accessible at 3AM, with more routes that can actually get you to where you want to go than Austin has in the middle of the day! SO you can pretty well get to wherever you want to go ANYWHERE in the City within 30 minutes if you know all the bus, streetcar, cable car, Muni Underground and BART lines. Try driving AND finding a parking place in the same amount of time as you can on Public Transportation. And if you want to do some really heavy shopping, cab fares are VERY CHEAP and abundant in SF.
And the ethnic neighborhoods have an amazing array of shops where you can find just about anything that you could find anywhere in the world. Within a few years, you will probably find some of your favorite places in the City, but it really takes MANY YEARS to find and to get to know about most of them! And a lot of the best of them are way out in The Excelsior, The Crocker Amazon, The Mission Terrace, The Ingleside and the Oceanview going all the way up to the lower slopes of San Bruno Mountain.

Last edited by pscajunguy; Feb 12, 2014 at 5:41 AM.
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  #189  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 5:16 AM
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Originally Posted by the Genral View Post
If I lived dt or was staying at a hotel dt, I would welcome a place to go to get a six pack or pack of cigs, cup of coffee, whatever...As it is, I live outside of RR and can walk to a number of convenience type stores that are within 5 minutes from my house. If I lived in the 4Season's, what are my options?
sure... if you enjoy really shitty coffee, nothing healthy, sketchy customers, angry employees, and hideous signage...I am glad there are more options, but I still think that location is absolutely absurd.

People who work or live downtown never go to 7-11. Royal Blue is the regular convenience store. Sure you can get a few things cheaper at le slurpland, but the pros far outweigh the cons.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk. The thing that has really been bugging me lately about Austin is that we are very ready for bigger things, the mindset just isn't there yet. I am afraid that mindset will always leave us a few steps behind other cities.
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  #190  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 5:34 AM
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I agree to a point but as far as mindset, I think there are people in this city with the right mindset but due to costs, or the need for partners or even the strenuous city government permit process, they either are reluctant or don't have the resources to get going. The city government really needs to simplify the development and code application process. I read recently that some officials actually went down to San Marcos to take a look at their revamped and improved city development application process to get some ideas for changing ours. I think dealing with those issues will help push new retail options downtown to a whole new level.
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  #191  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 6:11 AM
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I agree to a point but as far as mindset, I think there are people in this city with the right mindset but due to costs, or the need for partners or even the strenuous city government permit process, they either are reluctant or don't have the resources to get going. The city government really needs to simplify the development and code application process. I read recently that some officials actually went down to San Marcos to take a look at their revamped and improved city development application process to get some ideas for changing ours. I think dealing with those issues will help push new retail options downtown to a whole new level.
I suppose my rant is more directed at the city government than citizens. It's just embarrassing. As we see so many people move here, that voice will become louder...hopefully pushing some doors open. Austin is still a very blank canvas in certain areas i.e., Museums, urban retail, mass-transit, and our growing civic center.
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  #192  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by austlar1 View Post
Downtown SF shopping (widely considered to be some of the best shopping in the country) is mostly comprised of stores owned by nationwide chains. All of the large department stores and most of the specialty clothing stores are chain operations. They tend to be very good examples of their brand, but they are chain operations.
No it's not. Its pegged as such for tourists, and no different than any other place. All the locals don't appreciate that all the chains have virtually driven all of the locally owned retail businesses. Of the very few that remain, Gump's is one of them. Union Square is just like any other part of shopping district in America and not uniquely San Francisco.

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In my fantasy, I would like to see one or two major department stores and a variety of high end and mass market clothing and home accessory stores located in downtown Austin. Of course it would be nice to have local specialty stores to add some spice and variety.
It should be the main attraction of Downtown Austin.... keep the economy local and not allow corporations to run our city, which I think it is what's going to happen anyway.
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  #193  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 12:19 PM
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I am afraid that mindset will always leave us a few steps behind other cities.
That mindset will be the only killer of Austin if we never do anything about it... even progressive minded people don't seem to get it sometimes.
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  #194  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 12:24 PM
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The Safeway on Market is large, well-stocked and has much cheaper prices than any HEB one could ever find in Texas.
I've never said what I'm about to say on any forum but... that is some bullshit. I shopped there plenty of times... and no, the HEB down the street where I live has more options. What is better in CA are the farmer's markets with much better produce.
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  #195  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 5:00 PM
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I've never said what I'm about to say on any forum but... that is some bullshit. I shopped there plenty of times... and no, the HEB down the street where I live has more options. What is better in CA are the farmer's markets with much better produce.
Yeah that comment raised my eyebrows as well. I lived in the bay area for 15 years and have been in Austin for 7, I'd say your assessment is spot on. Maybe they meant cheap as in relative to city's income? A more reasonable claim but still way off imo.
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  #196  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 4:07 AM
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When we started encouraging taller buildings, I don't think we had the idea in mind that we wanted to be a big city. I don't want Austin to be a big city. I just want Austin to be a tall city. People saw tall buildings and they got the wrong idea. I would be okay with Austin remaining relatively small, actually. I have no desire to be "world class" in every way and constantly keep up with the Joneses. I don't want Austin to be like other places.
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  #197  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 5:13 AM
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Me and my gf would be making more trips downtown for an urban H&M and would also stop by a Target store downtown. We look at downtown as a place for wealthier people to shop(think small boutiques). If we were to take all the Domain, spread out those stores downtown or even all on Congress you could, over-night, add *a lot* of ped activity downtown.

Austin is quite lucky. A lot of downtowns have a problem bringing in people, period. Austin seems to bring in a good amount of people its relative lack of attractions(not a lot of museums, shopping etc) Add in more "mainstream" shopping and museums, I think you could see a huge increase of non-downtown/non-tourist coming into downtown to spend cash.
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  #198  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 6:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Me and my gf would be making more trips downtown for an urban H&M and would also stop by a Target store downtown. We look at downtown as a place for wealthier people to shop(think small boutiques). If we were to take all the Domain, spread out those stores downtown or even all on Congress you could, over-night, add *a lot* of ped activity downtown.

Austin is quite lucky. A lot of downtowns have a problem bringing in people, period. Austin seems to bring in a good amount of people its relative lack of attractions(not a lot of museums, shopping etc) Add in more "mainstream" shopping and museums, I think you could see a huge increase of non-downtown/non-tourist coming into downtown to spend cash.
Totally agree. We need all of those things. I would love to see Mexic-Arte go through with their beautiful remodel, but more importantly I think we need to focus on a real museum district. That is such a huge embarrassment for us.

EDIT: and I realize I sound like a broken record....sorry, y'all
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  #199  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 8:07 AM
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We do have a nice Urban Outfitters on 2nd. It's not really pricy and I consider it in the same retail group level with H&M and Forever 21. I shop there a lot and regularly find some great outfits for sale. I may be the exception to the rule but I shop Downtown more than I shop at the mall or any shopping center. For one thing there are quite a few men's clothing stores, plus I like the urban street shopping aspect. The only other location I frequent besides dt is SoCo. I'm sure as more and more people move into Downtown, we will see more options. I really haven't counted but there's going to be several hundred residential units added soon. Maybe someone on the forum knows the numbers.
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  #200  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2014, 5:46 PM
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We do have a nice Urban Outfitters on 2nd. It's not really pricy and I consider it in the same retail group level with H&M and Forever 21. I shop there a lot and regularly find some great outfits for sale. I may be the exception to the rule but I shop Downtown more than I shop at the mall or any shopping center. For one thing there are quite a few men's clothing stores, plus I like the urban street shopping aspect. The only other location I frequent besides dt is SoCo. I'm sure as more and more people move into Downtown, we will see more options. I really haven't counted but there's going to be several hundred residential units added soon. Maybe someone on the forum knows the numbers.
yeah, we're at a point where we're getting a couple thousand more people if you count in all the hotels. DT will need more than just bars and restaurants.
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