Tempe Development Thread

[PHXFlyer11]

I was looking ahead at the 2/25 Tempe DRC agenda and this is item 2:

Request for a Zoning Map Amendment from GID General Industrial to MU-4 Mixed Use, a Planned Area Development Overlay to determine development standards a Development Plan Review and a Subdivision Plat for a mixed-use development with 294 new multi-family units for TEMPE LAKESIDE APARTMENT HOMES (PL130421), located at 551 S. College Avenue. The applicant is Sender and Associates.

I am guessing based on Google Maps that this must be University House Phase 2? I thought they would be beyond this already though. I could swear they already went in front of the commission with blue prints, etc.

[Spitfiredude]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I was looking ahead at the 2/25 Tempe DRC agenda and this is item 2:

Request for a Zoning Map Amendment from GID General Industrial to MU-4 Mixed Use, a Planned Area Development Overlay to determine development standards a Development Plan Review and a Subdivision Plat for a mixed-use development with 294 new multi-family units for TEMPE LAKESIDE APARTMENT HOMES (PL130421), located at 551 S. College Avenue. The applicant is Sender and Associates.

I am guessing based on Google Maps that this must be University House Phase 2? I thought they would be beyond this already though. I could swear they already went in front of the commission with blue prints, etc.

Couple of interesting things:

1, the original new University House Phase 2 is in this meetings minutes:
http://www.tempe.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=20510

As you can see the height limits were at 195' for approval, but can go up to 300'. The requested dwellings were 79. That averaged 5-6 per floor (first two levels are parking, third is ament). They took up the entire site. Even if the building were to expand from (185' to say 285') that only adds at maximum 60 units. This doesn't make sense as to how 300 apartments could fit this site.

Something else that interests me is the fact they're called Tempe Lakeside Apt Homes. They're not even close to the lake, but if you changed the address to 551 North, they would be at the site of Hayden Harbor, which would make more sense for the name. This site could be the potential for heights of near 250' and would be a great development.

Whatever this is, it is confusing us all right now...

[Spitfiredude]

BIG NEW DEVELOPMENT FOR HAYDEN HARBOR SITE:

http://ww2.tempe.gov/ppweb/SearchPermits.aspx

There are 2 applicants under the name: "Tempe Town Lake Residential"

http://ww2.tempe.gov/ppweb/SearchPermits.aspx

One is at 400 N Scottsdale, which is right on the site, while the other is at 551 N College (which means whoever posted minutes messed up).
Anyway, they are requesting right up to 300 units. No word yet on what heights, but the buildings for this site are around 250'. This is good news for this site. It is DEFINITELY a result of the State Farm development across the street. No other reason IMO residential would be proposed. It will be interesting to see what the density is and what is planned. I'm not worried for any disappointing proposal at this point. The site is too large to be taken by one 300 unit apartment complex.

[Spitfiredude]

551 N College looks like the site just east of proposed Hayden Harbor (possibly not sure) where the small horse stable is. It looks to be around 3-5 acres. So that would be around 70-90 units an acre...hmm

[combusean]

Spitfiredude, how do you see the number of units proposed? The search page you provided doesn't produce anything meaningful on my end.

[PHXFlyer11]

I really hope this isn't another Lofts at Rio Salado or Lofts at Hayden Ferry type project that consists of 4-5 story compound of apartments.

With this site seemingly even more so under the flight path for the North Runway, I really can't see more than 8 stories here. I am not questioning your technical approved height levels, just commenting about the politics involved. I believe the FAA can declare it a hazard at their discretion.

Looks like these lots do not actually go all the way up to the lake bank, do they? Also, I am confused on how to read the permits... Are they saying one project on two lots? I assume that's what the primary vs. Non-primary distinction is.

Anything 10+ stories here would be a major win in my mind.

Also, googling the 400 N address I show this property has not sold and is not listed. However, very possible and wise that the developer get zoning, funding, etc all in place before purchasing the land.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by combusean

Spitfiredude, how do you see the number of units proposed? The search page you provided doesn't produce anything meaningful on my end.

See my original post a few above that calls out number of units in the agenda for the 2/25 DRC meeting.

[PHXFlyer11]

Now that I think about it, I hope we are not jumping the gun. This could be the property owner just having his/her property re-zoned to drive up value.

Three concerns:

1) The property was twice listed for sale and never sold. Owner making their land more attractive with new zoning?

2) http://www.senderlaw.com/Home_Page.html is who is applying. A zoning law firm, not a developer.

3) TEMPE LAKESIDE APARTMENT HOMES is clearly a place holder as it is generic as can be.

I hope this is real, but I am suspicious now. Although it's not like 294 units is a nice round number. Why not zone for 300 or more?

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I really hope this isn't another Lofts at Rio Salado or Lofts at Hayden Ferry type project that consists of 4-5 story compound of apartments.

With this site seemingly even more so under the flight path for the North Runway, I really can't see more than 8 stories here. I am not questioning your technical approved height levels, just commenting about the politics involved. I believe the FAA can declare it a hazard at their discretion.

Looks like these lots do not actually go all the way up to the lake bank, do they? Also, I am confused on how to read the permits... Are they saying one project on two lots? I assume that's what the primary vs. Non-primary distinction is.

Anything 10+ stories here would be a major win in my mind.

But, PHXFlyer is right about perhaps not getting our hopes up; earlier in 2013, a different developer - Namwest - had a zoning sign up on the site and never started work.

Also, googling the 400 N address I show this property has not sold and is not listed. However, very possible and wise that the developer get zoning, funding, etc all in place before purchasing the land.

The previous developer certainly thought they would be building close to 300' and directly up the bank:

http://www.wrtdesign.com/projects/detail/hayden-harbor-mixed-use-development/166

This is fantastic news! Residential density along the lake is great, for our skyline and for the health of Tempe's economy which is reliant on taxes earned and monies gained from private development to support the lake.

Are there any concerns that the lakefront developments being unwalkable to downtown and disconnected from the LRT? They're positives regardless, but was wondering how much of a surge the Mill scene will see, in terms of business and development, with residential projects this far away.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

The previous developer certainly thought they would be building close to 300' and directly up the bank:

http://www.wrtdesign.com/projects/detail/hayden-harbor-mixed-use-development/166

This is fantastic news! Residential density along the lake is great, for our skyline and for the health of Tempe's economy which is reliant on taxes earned and monies gained from private development to support the lake.

Are there any concerns that the lakefront developments being unwalkable to downtown and disconnected from the LRT? They're positives regardless, but was wondering how much of a surge the Mill scene will see, in terms of business and development, with residential projects this far away.

Let's hope it's something on the scale of the previous developer then! Anyone know how many units in the W6 towers? That could maybe help us judge height.

Unfortunately, for that side of the lake, the LRT would really need to go up Scottsdale rd, which ain't happening any time soon.

The south side of the lake will be just fine when the trolley is built. The trolley SHOULD encourage development on the land to the East of Rural Rd. as it shoots up Rio Salado to the Cubs facility.

[Jjs5056]

W6 is 375 units.

Yes, I'd love to see something at least close to the previous proposal, especially since South Bank has completely sucked. With HFL and Marina Heights turning the lake into a backdrop instead of an amenity, I was excited for these two projects that went right to the banks.

If real, I'm glad they're at least attempting to do more than one at once. I think a lot of the failure for urbanity, and especially mixed use projects with ground floor retail, to succeed has been that everything is built one building at a time. A lone tower amidst dirt lots isn't going to promote urbanity.

I guess we can hope these residents cab or drive down to Mill, then; I just don't want to loose ~300 units to the Scottsdale scene. In the meantime, fingers crossed for height, sleek design and lake access. This lake deserves a nice skyline around its perimeter and I think this site would have great views.

Maybe this'll light a candle under the Onyx site's new owners? That was one of my favorite designs - would've stood out beautifully.

More on what could've been: http://www.landadvisors.com/pdf/AZTP29526-95844.pdf

[Spitfiredude]

I believe W6's site is around 3-4 acres as well, so its a fairly good comparison. The height at W6 is 345' for tower 2, 260' for tower 1.

This could be a lone tower around 300'. If it were to happen, then it probably would attract more business to the north side of the lake. The possibilities are...well endless..so we hope.

Ideally, it would be nice to have a historic "ferry" connecting this side of the lake to the other. How could would that be? Running every 20-30 minutes a day. Ahhh what a dream.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

I believe W6's site is around 3-4 acres as well, so its a fairly good comparison. The height at W6 is 345' for tower 2, 260' for tower 1.

This could be a lone tower around 300'. If it were to happen, then it probably would attract more business to the north side of the lake. The possibilities are...well endless..so we hope.

Ideally, it would be nice to have a historic "ferry" connecting this side of the lake to the other. How could would that be? Running every 20-30 minutes a day. Ahhh what a dream.

I'm not sure that they'd have two separate site plans out for review with different addresses if it was just 1 tower. I find it find it strange that it says plans were reviewed 12/20 but there's nothing to be found.

I don't care about business expanding north of the lake to be honest. Past the 202 is Scottsdale's issue to me, and given their resistance to transit and urban issues, I hope the benefits stay near the lake and downtown. Playa del Norte has a 9 story office building underway and only one remanning parcel, HFL and Marina Heights are nearly booked up, so if this development is the real deal, it's only South Bank lagging behind before we have complete lakeside real estate.

I just hope that if residential does get built here, it's close enough to impact downtown retail figures so a grocer and other services come eventually.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

Ideally, it would be nice to have a historic "ferry" connecting this side of the lake to the other. How could would that be? Running every 20-30 minutes a day. Ahhh what a dream.

That is an effing awesome idea! It HAS to happen. It could connect the park (or near state farm) to whatever else gets built on the other side (or there could be two ferries).

There is an awesome historic ferryboat I rode on in Basel, Switzerland. It connected two sides of the Rhine River. It was guided by a steel cable strung between the two sides and a rudder under the boat used the flowing river to move it from side to side. Perfectly energy-free. It cost very little but was a neat, and in some cases necessary, little attraction.

[Arquitect]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

I'm not sure that they'd have two separate site plans out for review with different addresses if it was just 1 tower. I find it find it strange that it says plans were reviewed 12/20 but there's nothing to be found.

I don't care about business expanding north of the lake to be honest. Past the 202 is Scottsdale's issue to me, and given their resistance to transit and urban issues, I hope the benefits stay near the lake and downtown. Playa del Norte has a 9 story office building underway and only one remanning parcel, HFL and Marina Heights are nearly booked up, so if this development is the real deal, it's only South Bank lagging behind before we have complete lakeside real estate.

I just hope that if residential does get built here, it's close enough to impact downtown retail figures so a grocer and other services come eventually.

Tempe's boundaries actually go up past the 202. Although it would be ideal to fill in the south side of the lake first, adding more density in this area is also a win. Knowing how ahead of the game Tempe is compared to the rest of the valley's cities, I wouldn't be surprised if the city ends up proposing another street car line (or loops the existing proposal) to reach this area if a dense hub where to emerge. If you look at the current proposal for the street car, that is exactly what they are trying to do, reach the developments along Apache and Rio Salado that are too far away from the lightrail. Lets remember that there are no real plans to expand to the cubs stadium, so the current proposal could be expanded to cross the lake at Rural and then connect to the station across from First Solar. Which would make more sense for Tempe. The expansion to the Cubs stadium is more of a benefit for Mesa, and I believe that they should be spearheading that.

[rocksteady]

Wow, I've never seen those Hayden Harbor or former Onyx proposals before! I had just seen the single black Onyx building. That makes me so sad those never panned out. The lake would have looked amazing by now. Let's hope the new proposals get back to that scale.

I think it would be great to have ferries as transportation once the lake gets built out. I've also wondered why someone hasn't created a floating bar/restaurant yet. NYC has The Frying Pan and it is packed on a regular basis. Great food and great day drinking.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

Wow, I've never seen those Hayden Harbor or former Onyx proposals before! I had just seen the single black Onyx building. That makes me so sad those never panned out. The lake would have looked amazing by now. Let's hope the new proposals get back to that scale.

I think it would be great to have ferries as transportation once the lake gets built out. I've also wondered why someone hasn't created a floating bar/restaurant yet. NYC has The Frying Pan and it is packed on a regular basis. Great food and great day drinking.

The Bahia Belle in Mission Bay is fun. It goes from the Catamaran Hotel to the Bahia, on the hour every hour in the evening. Tempe could one day do something like this, although the boat would have to be much smaller because Rural Rd Bridge is low.

http://www.bahiahotel.com/dining-entertainment/bahia-belle-boat-cruise/

[rocksteady]

Yes, that would be cool addition to the lake once it gets built out and is surrounded by residents, restaurants, bars....if it ever does. I think even today a bar/restaurant would do great. Obviously can't be as big and long as The Frying Pan in NYC, but something similar.

http://nymag.com/listings/bar/frying_pan/

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by Arquitect

Tempe's boundaries actually go up past the 202. Although it would be ideal to fill in the south side of the lake first, adding more density in this area is also a win. Knowing how ahead of the game Tempe is compared to the rest of the valley's cities, I wouldn't be surprised if the city ends up proposing another street car line (or loops the existing proposal) to reach this area if a dense hub where to emerge. If you look at the current proposal for the street car, that is exactly what they are trying to do, reach the developments along Apache and Rio Salado that are too far away from the lightrail. Lets remember that there are no real plans to expand to the cubs stadium, so the current proposal could be expanded to cross the lake at Rural and then connect to the station across from First Solar. Which would make more sense for Tempe. The expansion to the Cubs stadium is more of a benefit for Mesa, and I believe that they should be spearheading that.

I know that Tempe runs north of the 202, but given the fact that it borders south Scottsdale, which is complete trash, and knowing that the city won't ever invest in things like shade trees, transportation or encourage more pedestrian oriented design makes me give preference to Tempe's property up to the lake instead of trying to promote revitalization at this point.

I like your streetcar idea; it's too bad Scottsdale wouldn't ever partner up and have the line go down McDowell before turning on Galvin Parkway, and eventually left into Van Buren to pass First Solar and go back over the bridge. That would make the northern lakefront developments, SkySong, Papago Park, DBG, Phoenix Zoo, Phoenix Municipal Stadium, First Solar, and Marquee Theater all accessible via transit. Of course, they'd have to reconfigure the Galvin traffic circle, but all of those amenities should be on some kind of rail line, even Phoenix Muni where I believe ASU baseball will play during the Stadium District overhaul.

I think people are too optimistic about development east of Rural when hoping for the Cubs extension. Rural-McClintock makes sense, but there are many who think a line might entice TMP to modify its design, and I just don't ever see that happening. I also think connecting TMP with Mill helps some erase the guilt/pain of allowing that project to kill retail downtown.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

Yes, that would be cool addition to the lake once it gets built out and is surrounded by residents, restaurants, bars....if it ever does. I think even today a bar/restaurant would do great. Obviously can't be as big and long as The Frying Pan in NYC, but something similar.

http://nymag.com/listings/bar/frying_pan/

One of the items on the Tempe development review commission's recent or upcoming meetings was regarding the need for more retail/restaurants to be connected to the waterfront, so I do think we will eventually see at least some improvement that could make a small ferry system worthwhile.