PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

According to the Allegheny Green Boulevard Plan, this will become apartments/townhouses within the next couple years. It also appears there is a road that was recently constructed on that site.

I live a block away from the site, so when the snow melts I'll take a look and see if there's a road through there.

CMU Robotics is expanding in what remains of the old Heppenstall mill, adding multiple floors within the warehouse, so they might have made a temporary access road for construction.

[BrianTH]

I agree the style can get a little repetitive, but banging out these 4-6 story multiunits all over the place is going to be a big part of getting Pittsburgh to that +20,000 mark (and beyond).

[Brentsters]

I think the Strip will be one of the biggest winners in terms of residential development over the next decade. There's so many under-utilized lots that it makes it easier to do big projects like that Oxford one. Because there were virtually no residents prior to the Cork Factory, it doesn't face neighborhood objection about building too dense like is seen in so many other neighborhoods. Also relating to the fact that it's a "new" residential area, it doesn't have the same stigma as other burgeoning neighborhoods (e.g. East Liberty, Lawrenceville). And obviously, prime (and flat) location between Downtown and Lawrenceville.

1100 Smallman - 59 units



1500 block of Smallman/Wholey redevelopment - 144 units


The building containing Lidia's in the 1400 block is being developed into a 150-room Homewood Suites.

And the above referenced Oxford development further down. 299 units.


Then, of course, whatever happens with the Produce Terminal and surrounding development.

[Brentsters]

Key corner at Baum/Liberty - 210 units - Probably will break ground in a month.



I've also heard of another apartment project at Baum and I think Cypress. Can't speak to its veracity though.

The scope of multi-unit projects (or any projects for that matter) spread across so many neighborhoods probably has not been seen in Pittsburgh in my lifetime.

[SkyPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Brentsters

I've also heard of another apartment project at Baum and I think Cypress. Can't speak to its veracity though.

You might be thinking of a couple projects
1. The Luna Garage construction for UPMC Shadyside.
2. The UPMC Shadyside expansion across Centre and into the Boston Market lots.
3. Potential development of an empty lot at Baum and Cypress.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

http://hosted-p0.vresp.com/1582053/7eb4244176/ARCHIVE




Hot Metal Flats - South Side - 115 units


Alphabet City - East Liberty - office/retail

Reminds me of the latest Milwaukee infill, actually. (Which has been quite good, IMO) Check out that thread if you wanna see some neat mid-rise, river front developments.

Not bad. 5-6 stories to me is quite decent. That's Paris level of density which is one of the most dense city cores in the world.

[Austinlee]

Wow, I'm loving all these great new projects. This is the stuff I've been hoping to see built for some time! Quality residential infill projects that are seen in the best cities of Europe. For example, some of these mid rises remind me of projects I've seen going up in The Netherlands, Copenhagen, several German and UK cities. Also several cutting edge US cities like Minneapolis, LA, Seattle, Houston.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I agree the style can get a little repetitive, but banging out these 4-6 story multiunits all over the place is going to be a big part of getting Pittsburgh to that +20,000 mark (and beyond).

It'll take quite a few apartment buildings to add 20,000 to the population. If you figure that each one of these has 300 units and totally guess at 1.5 people per unit, that gets you 450 per building. That gives you about 45 apartment blocks to build in the next ten years or 4 to 5 a year. That's obviously a WAG at the estimate but does seem doable at the rate things have been going.

[SkyPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by GeneW

It'll take quite a few apartment buildings to add 20,000 to the population. If you figure that each one of these has 300 units and totally guess at 1.5 people per unit, that gets you 450 per building. That gives you about 45 apartment blocks to build in the next ten years or 4 to 5 a year. That's obviously a WAG at the estimate but does seem doable at the rate things have been going.

A major focus of bringing people back to the City and increasing our population is restoring older houses and building houses on vacant lots. Let's say we build 15-200 apartment buildings in 10 years (seems kind of reasonable) using your estimates of 1.5 people per apartment, that's 4500 people, which isn't much. However, if we can bump up mostly vacant neighborhoods like Larimer (which is primed for development with all the buzz in East Liberty) and Homewood (also primed) back to their almost-peak populations (9,457 and 15,158 respectively) that would add another 16,000 ish people. Given, that probably won't happen, but given some serious situation changes, it could.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by GeneW

It'll take quite a few apartment buildings to add 20,000 to the population. If you figure that each one of these has 300 units and totally guess at 1.5 people per unit, that gets you 450 per building. That gives you about 45 apartment blocks to build in the next ten years or 4 to 5 a year. That's obviously a WAG at the estimate but does seem doable at the rate things have been going.

True.

But like this nation's energy policy which is referred to as "All of the above" meaning it includes existing coal, hydro and nuclear plants along with growing renewable sources like solar and wind and the growth of natural gas power, I draw a parallel that a major US city will need to rely on an all of the above strategy of new apartment and condo towers, new construction apartment BLOCKS, renovation of existing single family homes and new construction of single family homes in the gaps as well.


(I even have a business idea to one day possibly try to open a business to build net-zero energy open floor plan homes in the city. We'll see... )

[Brentsters]

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

You might be thinking of a couple projects
1. The Luna Garage construction for UPMC Shadyside.
2. The UPMC Shadyside expansion across Centre and into the Boston Market lots.
3. Potential development of an empty lot at Baum and Cypress.

Nope. What I've heard is this will be apartments. It's a new development...hasn't officially been presented to the neighborhood yet. Could be #3...I'm not sure what lot it is exactly.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Brentsters

I think the Strip will be one of the biggest winners in terms of residential development over the next decade. There's so many under-utilized lots that it makes it easier to do big projects like that Oxford one. Because there were virtually no residents prior to the Cork Factory, it doesn't face neighborhood objection about building too dense like is seen in so many other neighborhoods. Also relating to the fact that it's a "new" residential area, it doesn't have the same stigma as other burgeoning neighborhoods (e.g. East Liberty, Lawrenceville). And obviously, prime (and flat) location between Downtown and Lawrenceville.

I broadly agree with you, but I'm not sure what stigma Lawrenceville has these days that the Strip District does not. The latter still has a semi-seedy reputation among some people from the days of the raucous club scene there. Lawrenceville's just developed a reputation as being full of hipsters and some residual yinzers.

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Not bad. 5-6 stories to me is quite decent. That's Paris level of density which is one of the most dense city cores in the world.

I'm still a little sad Alphabet City is going to knock down the Yen's Chinese building. It's one of the few remaining non-ruined 19th century buildings of quality in downtown East Liberty. Why not buy another 1-2 completely wrecked buildings further in the block instead?

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

A major focus of bringing people back to the City and increasing our population is restoring older houses and building houses on vacant lots. Let's say we build 15-200 apartment buildings in 10 years (seems kind of reasonable) using your estimates of 1.5 people per apartment, that's 4500 people, which isn't much. However, if we can bump up mostly vacant neighborhoods like Larimer (which is primed for development with all the buzz in East Liberty) and Homewood (also primed) back to their almost-peak populations (9,457 and 15,158 respectively) that would add another 16,000 ish people. Given, that probably won't happen, but given some serious situation changes, it could.

I don't think it's plausible to get back to peak populations without rebuilding in a much higher density than the neighborhoods were originally. Most of Pittsburgh's population decline was due to falling household size. For the city in general, presuming we had the same number of units as our peak, we would be able to fill them all with only 110,000 more people. While I'd presume a rebuilt Homewood and Larimer would have more families with children than the norm for Pittsburgh, even the size of black families has shrunk considerably over the last 50 years.

[Brentsters]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I broadly agree with you, but I'm not sure what stigma Lawrenceville has these days that the Strip District does not. The latter still has a semi-seedy reputation among some people from the days of the raucous club scene there. Lawrenceville's just developed a reputation as being full of hipsters and some residual yinzers.

Fair point. I might be underestimating any feelings about the Strip's club days, but I haven't heard talk of that in a long time. I probably could've used another example of areas that will receive residential attention in the future...like the Lower Hill, maybe Uptown.

Originally Posted by eschaton

I'm still a little sad Alphabet City is going to knock down the Yen's Chinese building. It's one of the few remaining non-ruined 19th century buildings of quality in downtown East Liberty. Why not buy another 1-2 completely wrecked buildings further in the block instead?

Agreed.

[GeneW]

Fixing up old but still occupied neighborhoods actually tends to reduce density because multi-family buildings get converted back to single family. My neighborhood, Allegheny West, has gone down a lot in population over the last few decades from that effect. My wife and I have this giant 2700 square foot townhouse and it's just the two of us (and three cats and a tarantula). In the sixties and seventies a lot of these places might have had ten or twenty people living in them but now only have a couple and one or two kids.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Brentsters

I think the Strip will be one of the biggest winners in terms of residential development over the next decade. There's so many under-utilized lots that it makes it easier to do big projects like that Oxford one. Because there were virtually no residents prior to the Cork Factory, it doesn't face neighborhood objection about building too dense like is seen in so many other neighborhoods.

Agreed. But the one sour note is that some people are afraid of losing what they like about the core commercial area, and inclined to oppose an ambitious project in the Buncher properties as a result. Hopefully Peduto et al can show some beneficial leadership on this issue.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

I draw a parallel that a major US city will need to rely on an all of the above strategy of new apartment and condo towers, new construction apartment BLOCKS, renovation of existing single family homes and new construction of single family homes in the gaps as well.

Agreed with this as well. That's what it will take to serve all different segments of the market, and that's how you get so many projects operating in parallel such that something like a +20,000 goal becomes feasible.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I broadly agree with you, but I'm not sure what stigma Lawrenceville has these days that the Strip District does not. The latter still has a semi-seedy reputation among some people from the days of the raucous club scene there. Lawrenceville's just developed a reputation as being full of hipsters and some residual yinzers.

I don't think either has any significant negative connotations for people who might be looking for new market-rate units in the City.

I'm still a little sad Alphabet City is going to knock down the Yen's Chinese building. It's one of the few remaining non-ruined 19th century buildings of quality in downtown East Liberty. Why not buy another 1-2 completely wrecked buildings further in the block instead?

Me too! I think the answer to your question is contained in the marketing for the project--they think a prominent corner location is a major selling point. But it is a bummer it is wiping out that building.

I don't think it's plausible to get back to peak populations without rebuilding in a much higher density than the neighborhoods were originally. Most of Pittsburgh's population decline was due to falling household size. For the city in general, presuming we had the same number of units as our peak, we would be able to fill them all with only 110,000 more people.

Indeed. However, one other factor to keep in mind is that there are now a lot of brownfields and such available for new residential that were occupied back in the peak population days. So if you build densely enough in those locations, you can add a significant number of new units before having to change the character of established residential neighborhoods.

[Steel City Scotty]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Wow, I'm loving all these great new projects. This is the stuff I've been hoping to see built for some time! Quality residential infill projects that are seen in the best cities of Europe. For example, some of these mid rises remind me of projects I've seen going up in The Netherlands, Copenhagen, several German and UK cities. Also several cutting edge US cities like Minneapolis, LA, Seattle, Houston.

Something tells me Photolith may disagree with your description of Houston.

He seems to hate that place...

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Steel City Scotty

Something tells me Photolith may disagree with your description of Houston.

He seems to hate that place...

Haha. Probably. But Houston has massive amounts of urban infill. Some decent. Some horrible.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Fixing up old but still occupied neighborhoods actually tends to reduce density because multi-family buildings get converted back to single family. My neighborhood, Allegheny West, has gone down a lot in population over the last few decades from that effect. My wife and I have this giant 2700 square foot townhouse and it's just the two of us (and three cats and a tarantula). In the sixties and seventies a lot of these places might have had ten or twenty people living in them but now only have a couple and one or two kids.

Then you know what you need to do: Rent out your attic to some drug attics. Let's increase the density!