Why does this bloody topic always go back to Surrey vs Broadway? Seriously some of you are a bit insane. They have different needs and here is the bottom line:
1. You can argue subway versus elevated in Broadway because we're pretty much guaranteed SkyTrain will be going down that route. It's basically arguing red vs blue frosting on a massive 10 tier cake you already have.
2. The only "thoughts" on elevated vs subway come down to cost. As a region, do we have the money to spend on putting a SkyTrain line underground purely for aesthetics? Because that's all that is being accomplished. Any SkyTrain line out to UBC will be rarely ridden by anyone that has a home in Point Grey. It is for students and people working at UBC from outside the area and those that live and work along the Broadway stretch.
3. Would an elevated track truly ruin look and feel? To me the answer is squarely no. But to others it may be yes. The truth is arguing on these forums with those that think elevated tracks are a scourge and ruin communities is near pointless because their opinions, as with yours, are based purely on opinion not fact. I have seen some posters say things like "Well other cities do it fine" or "Well it works in X." which isn't an argument at all.
Basically what you're doing is this. The elevated track haters are arguing that they don't wan tto buy a red car because they think red cars are ugly. You are then answering them by saying "Well other people buy red cars and like them." as if this point should convince them to like red cars. They don't like red cars and probably couldn't care any less about those that do! Same deal here. You're arguing at a wall. But that said, the argument is still just that. Pure opinion and business decisions, especially $3 billion tax payer money decisions aren't made purely on opinion even though some people may think they are when government is involved. There definitely has to be a business case and a financial reason for making major decisions.
Arguing aesthetics is for politicians.
The truth is that in reality, those that hate elevated guideways and argue they aren't good for views because the view on skytrain starts to get boring shoot themselves in the foot because the same happens when you're not on SkyTrain. You basically start ignoring the elevated tracks. I barely notice them in Surrey Central now that I've lived here a few years and I don't think they make the area look any better or worse. It is infrastructure like a road. I actually think power lines through cities look worse than a SkyTrain line funny enough. I'm sure others would think that is insane. Again all just opinion.
4. Now the practicality. The practicality is that along Broadway, I think logistically and politically it makes sense to make that all subway. It makes connecting to Millenium Line easier as you don't have a giant hill climb and that stretch is already fairly built up with more being built which makes going underground easier and less disruptive.
They have also already sent precedence with Canada Line being underground through a far less dense stretch of Vancouver and politically, Vancouver business still has a bad taste with how Canada Line was handled and they'd be irked with even cut and cover let alone elevated guideways.
Now beyond the Broadway stretch once you get to Point Grey. Should it continue underground for 10 extra blocks (the length from Alma to Blanca) then pop out and go elevated through a section with absolutely no houses and just a golf course? Should it remain a subway all the way to UBC? Should it pop out around Alma and go elevated through Point Grey all the way to UBC?
The biggest issue is with the vast majority of people's cost estimates on these forums. I see many posters simply go MONEY / KM = how much per KM but it isn't quite as easy. It could actually turn out that simply continuing another 10 blocks under ground through Point Grey may not add a huge cost overhead. We just don't know yet.
All I do know is that based on the transit study by Translink, their cost and route for RRT was determined to be entirely underground from Great Northern Way to UBC and from reading the reports it makes sense to me for that stretch.
5. That brings us to the money. Even if you elevated part of the SkyTrain line, I don't think costs would be drastically reduced for the small distance you would make non-subway. Even if you shaved $1 billion off which I think is a high number, you're still $2 billion short in money that Translink simply doesn't have. It has negative cashflow right now.
I'd rather we find a final funding strategy and built the Broadway line CORRECT. If it is determined by the experts that a subway is the correct method through that stretch then I fully support it. Aesthetics be damned because quite frankly I think some people on these forums crying about elevated rail are living in a fantasy world.
Ask yourself this. If they put an elevated track down Broadway and you lived 5 blocks away, heard no noise, but saw it once in a while when you were walking, would it piss you off so much that you'd move to another neighborhood? If you say yes, then you need help. If you say no, then it doesn't matter if it is above or below ground because you'll get used to it.
6. Can we stop with the Surrey vs Broadway crap? The decisions as to what is built along Broadway really have nothing to do with any Surrey extension and this is coming from someone that has lived in Surrey my whole life and would directly benefit by SkyTrain extension out here.
It isn't an us vs them on either side. It isn't a "If Broadway gets subway, we should get subway." The truth is I'll take whatever the hell they build out here if it means building and no more talking. We can talk about subway, cut and cover, teleporters, and jets for the next 20 years, but it is all a waste of time if nothing ever gets built.
They decide "Ok we have enough money to build a SkyTrain extension in Surrey down Fraser Highway to Langley but it has to all be elevated due to cost!" and I'll be cheering for years to come.
What people are failing to realize is the very reason people in Vancouver can fuss over elevated vs subway vs whatever is because it's pretty much a for sure deal you'll get your line. You've gotten every other line promised and out of every other proposed transit expansions in Metro Vancouver, Broadway is a pure no brainer. Heck it was a no brainer 5+ years ago imo and we should be smashing the Champaign bottle on it for opening day today.
So enjoy. It is definitely needed, that stretch has the density 10 fold and the demand for a full RRT line. This Surrey citizen has absolutely no issue helping to fund the thing if it means starting construction sooner than later and even though I'll probably ride the line once every 20 years. Heck I had no issue with Millenium Line and I've ridden it three times since it opened.
Why? Because it benefits the region as a whole. Something I think a lot of people on these forums need to think about more often. Surrey will get its extension eventually. Will it be as quick as I'd like? Probably not. But it will happen eventually. Heck Evergreen is happening and if it can get built, anything is possible given enough time and money (and crying like babies
).
7. My final point is that this is a reminder to everyone on these forums to look up from your keyboard and smile for the fact you're arguing a 1st world problem on a computer in a 1st world country. Be glad you get to debate and argue something of this sort rather than spending the next day trying to find food.
Ultimately, the world will not end if Broadway isn't fully underground or if Surrey never gets rapid transit. Does it make things frustrating? Sure. But it could be far worse.
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