Calgary's $8 BILLION Transit Plan - The RouteAhead

[red_179]

Originally Posted by ken0042

One idea I had for raising money for this project- what if they sold long term transit passes? Obviously this is just a rough idea but here's what I was thinking:

- 10 year commitment required. (not sure how you'd enforce that.)
- $150 per month. So slightly higher than a current pass, but you are building the new system.
- Ground get broken right away (figuratively, obviously some planning needs to occur.)

If you could get 100,000 people to sign up, that represents a commitment of $1.8 B over 10 years. Now I know 100,000 sounds high; I'm thinking that in addition to NC and SE users signing up, you could get others who might look at the long term value of the pass (by years 8-10 it could be cheaper than the future price), and those who may do it for the sake of wanting to be one of the builders of the new line. Maybe even set aside park and ride spots for these pass holders.

I know that does leave a shortfall, but hopefully you could get the province and the federal gov't to help cover some of the rest. Maybe also get some input from businesses (I don't know if there's a way to make this a tax deduction)

10 years is a massive commitment for people to enter into. So much can change in a person's life in 10 years (relocation to another city for work, need to buy a car to drive the kids, etc) that I doubt many people would sign up for this. It wouldn't make sense for the NC/SE users to sign-up for this pass, because the LRT line would still take a few years to be constructed and they would have no use of it until then. Would users of the the other LRT lines voluntarily pay more to fund the NC/SE line that they may not have a need to use? Also of the people that would sign-up for this, some would likely already be users of Calgary Transit, so it would not be an increase of $1.8 billion in funding, but rather the difference in price between the $150/month pass and the current pass over a 10 year period, which would be a lot less money.

[Allan83]

I like the creative thinking. I wonder if the city could get a commitment from IOL and the other major employers at QP and elsewhere along the line to buy bus passes for their employees for 10 years? The companies would likely be able to write that off too, wouldn't they? You wouldn’t get nearly as much money, but you might get a couple of hundred million, and that would certainly help.

[joe498]

Originally Posted by ken0042

One idea I had for raising money for this project- what if they sold long term transit passes?

I can't understand why Calgary Transit doesn't at least sell annual passes.

[RyLucky]

Long term passes are a good idea. Many people are already in a position where they know they will buy the pass for a year anyway, so why not offer 12 months for the price of 11.5 or something? If things change, at least we already have their money. There's no reason not to offer people more choice in how they choose to buy transit passes. If someone were willing to pay $5000, I'd be happy to give them a lifetime pass. It could become something people buy their kids as an investment/statement/bid-to-make-them-stay-in-the-city. I think there might be a kind of status about it that could become popular too. We should be broadening our passholder base anyway we can. CT could use some help with marketing.

Some other ideas:

1) City passes. Sell transit, library, and recreation centre passes together as a bulk package.

2) Sell annual passes (for the price of ~9mo) with the purchase of a new car, just as they are offered block heaters and winter tires. The top two determinants of whether someone will chose transit are (a) whether they have a car and (b) whether they have a pass. Worst case scenario, these folks never use transit but pay 75% of annual pass price anyway.

3) CT should do more partnerships with businesses. For example, include mandatory purchase of 2 bus tickets with saddledome events (Flames can keep half the profits). Or, the same thing at the airport. Or, offer bulk prices to companies if they buy a pass for everyone on payroll.

The key is to exploit the fact that lots of people won't take transit anyway, even if they have a pass. It's win-win, and these kinds of programs could generate millions of revenue, while also ramping up demand.

[Chadillaccc]

Or tax fuel like BC does.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Long term passes are a good idea. Many people are already in a position where they know they will buy the pass for a year anyway, so why not offer 12 months for the price of 11.5 or something? If things change, at least we already have their money. There's no reason not to offer people more choice in how they choose to buy transit passes. If someone were willing to pay $5000, I'd be happy to give them a lifetime pass. It could become something people buy their kids as an investment/statement/bid-to-make-them-stay-in-the-city. I think there might be a kind of status about it that could become popular too. We should be broadening our passholder base anyway we can. CT could use some help with marketing.

Some other ideas:

1) City passes. Sell transit, library, and recreation centre passes together as a bulk package.

2) Sell annual passes (for the price of ~9mo) with the purchase of a new car, just as they are offered block heaters and winter tires. The top two determinants of whether someone will chose transit are (a) whether they have a car and (b) whether they have a pass. Worst case scenario, these folks never use transit but pay 75% of annual pass price anyway.

3) CT should do more partnerships with businesses. For example, include mandatory purchase of 2 bus tickets with saddledome events (Flames can keep half the profits). Or, the same thing at the airport. Or, offer bulk prices to companies if they buy a pass for everyone on payroll.

The key is to exploit the fact that lots of people won't take transit anyway, even if they have a pass. It's win-win, and these kinds of programs could generate millions of revenue, while also ramping up demand.

I've often thought about this. Why can't a Flames/Stamps/concert ticket stub be considered a valid transit pass immediately before and after event time? Or plane tickets for the Route 300 and 100 buses?

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by joe498

I can't understand why Calgary Transit doesn't at least sell annual passes.

The Bank of Canada doesn't make $1000 notes anymore, in part due to counterfeiting concerns; I can understand why Calgary Transit would not be interested in getting into the business of making a piece of paper worth $1152.

What they should be doing is a subscription basis where you are mailed a monthly pass at the end of each month for a year, like the TTC does. This could be a big help in particular to the low income pass purchasers, who have to go in person each month to one of six locations that are mostly open banker's hours -- including three within a block of each other downtown, one in an industrial park ill-served by transit, and one in Palliser, one of the wealthier communities in the city.

I'd also like to see more work (okay, any work) with employers for bulk purchases of transit passes. Tri-Met in Portland has a very interesting program, as an example.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by VIce

I've often thought about this. Why can't a Flames/Stamps/concert ticket stub be considered a valid transit pass immediately before and after event time? Or plane tickets for the Route 300 and 100 buses?

Denver has a ton of special fares, including a bunch for sports:

http://www.rtd-denver.com/Fares.shtml

[Cruzer]

Could the City run that line privately? Assuming there'd be some interest? Have all profits/operating costs and ROW go to said third party with a partial stake in exchange for weight off the City's shoulders?

[lineman]

Bringing private interests in means fares would have to be doubled. CT relies on subsidies and operates at a loss.

Not that I care that it doesn't as people need to get around. Roads and sidewalks don't bring in profits.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Allan83

I like the creative thinking. I wonder if the city could get a commitment from IOL and the other major employers at QP and elsewhere along the line to buy bus passes for their employees for 10 years? The companies would likely be able to write that off too, wouldn't they? You wouldn’t get nearly as much money, but you might get a couple of hundred million, and that would certainly help.

Not everyone will want the additional tax taken off each of their pay to pay for the taxable benefit that it becomes.

[MalcolmTucker]

University students seem fine with it, the Upass has been in for what, a decade now?

[VIce]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

University students seem fine with it, the Upass has been in for what, a decade now?

In the case of SAIT, it includes staff.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Some other ideas:

Mandatory purchase of CT passes for all city and CT workers.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

The Bank of Canada doesn't make $1000 notes anymore, in part due to counterfeiting concerns;

That was not the main reason they got rid of those. The removal of the $1000 was primarily to illegal transactions as trying to do a multi-million dollar drug or arms deal with $100 bills becomes extremely difficult.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Tropics

That was not the main reason they got rid of those. The removal of the $1000 was primarily to illegal transactions as trying to do a multi-million dollar drug or arms deal with $100 bills becomes extremely difficult.

I use pennies for those.

[Tropics]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

University students seem fine with it, the Upass has been in for what, a decade now?

University students have no choice. They are not all "fine with it". I had many a discussion with many university students when I was there that were not happy with being forced to buy transit passes. For many of them it is a waste of their money and simply more student loans they will have to pay off after graduation.

Whether you agree they should be forced to buy them or not that is the reality.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

I use pennies for those.

Probably why they also got rid of the penny.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

University students seem fine with it, the Upass has been in for what, a decade now?

As a student it i counted as a fee, as an employee it would become taxable income

Originally Posted by VIce

In the case of SAIT, it includes staff.

I know of a number that do not like being forced to pay for it. Additionally I would bet that the transit usage among staff isn't much above the statistical average despite all them having a pass.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Tropics

University students have no choice. They are not all "fine with it". I had many a discussion with many university students when I was there that were not happy with being forced to buy transit passes. For many of them it is a waste of their money and simply more student loans they will have to pay off after graduation.

Whether you agree they should be forced to buy them or not that is the reality.

And yet the U-Pass was supported by numerous student referendums. It was a steal of a deal.