Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Vancity]

when is this project due to begin?

[officedweller]

It is currently unfunded - so think long term.

[officedweller]

Seemingly useless advice from the ULI forthcoming (since it will provide a review without considering the type of technology used (SkyTrain, LRT or bus)) - the two are intimately linked.
I think the unsolicited advice from this real estate industry panel will just look at which areas can tolerate increased densities (i.e. "real estate impact") - it's not really about transit at all.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/I...dway+corridor+transit/9456219/story.html

On the thorny question of what kind of technology the line should use — SkyTrain, light rail, subway or bus — the ULI panel will be silent. Boniface said it may lightly look at whether it should be underground or above grade, but the main purpose is to examine where stations might go and what the impact they would have on neighbourhoods.

“Really, whether it is above ground or below, or even partly one or the other, there will be stations and those stations will have significant real estate impact,” he said. “Unlike the Canada Line, we need to think about that now. We need to make sure there is an economic analysis of the reality of the potential density around these places, so that we don’t end up with tower speculation rampant on the west side of Vancouver for sites that will never exist.”

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Internationa...transit/9456219/story.html#ixzz2s9hJxDYi

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Seemingly useless advice from the ULI forthcoming (since it will provide a review without considering the type of technology used (SkyTrain, LRT or bus)) - the two are intimately linked.

I see no real value to this "study". They're trying to suggest that the impact of the line can be affected by the choice of station locations without acknowledging that for the most part the station locations are pretty much fixed. There obviously has to be one at Cambie, and most of the other locations will need to be at transfer points for the many north/south arterials with bus service.

[Bcasey25raptor]

I am really looking forward to this, However I am extremely worried the BC Government and the Lower Mainland will cheap out and try and build a crappy LRT system instead of the skytrain.

Subway, skytrain, whatever. Just don't waste money on LRT.

[WarrenC12]

That article is a waste of electrons.

Although funny to see that facebook-linked commenting still doesn't stop people from saying the most ridiculous things.

[gkz]

The documents from the City of Vancouver seem pretty adamant that this should be below ground. Considering that the amount of people bussing on this corridor eclipses the Millennium line's ridership and is near the Canada line's, I can't see how a rational person could choose LRT. Along with that, full length underground skytrain gives the best cost/benefit according to the study.

I wonder how much UBC would be able to chip in considering how much they will potentially benefit.

[spm2013]

From their press release:

1. Which three distinct neighbourhoods along the Broadway Corridor are most suitable for station development?
2. What best practices should be applied at each of these nodes? Are there precedent examples that can be applied to this Corridor?
3. What is the ideal form of future development at these nodes?
4. How far should the development extend around a proposed station?
5. What are the economic and social implications for the selected neighbourhoods, the City of Vancouver, and UBC?
6. What are the trade-offs between the different transit modes and which mode would you
recommend?

I hope they send a panel on what to do with the Viaducts...

[OhioGuy]

Video report from Global TV BC: UBC-Broadway rapid transit plans

Fri, Jan 31 – A new development plan to put a rapid transit line down the busiest bus route in North America, the Broadway corridor, cannot come quickly enough for the overtaxed roadway. Next week, a panel of experts, including some from the U.S., will be in Vancouver to consult on the project, which has been talked about for years.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by gkz

The documents from the City of Vancouver seem pretty adamant that this should be below ground. Considering that the amount of people bussing on this corridor eclipses the Millennium line's ridership and is near the Canada line's, I can't see how a rational person could choose LRT. Along with that, full length underground skytrain gives the best cost/benefit according to the study.

I wonder how much UBC would be able to chip in considering how much they will potentially benefit.

I've heard that UBC isn't completely supportive because they're worried about people choosing to commute instead of staying in dorms.

[quobobo]

^Hah. That's what everyone already does (after first year, anyway).

If UBC was serious about keeping people on-campus they'd allow a lot more residential and retail to be built. As is, campus is pretty dead on the weekends and not very convenient.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I am really looking forward to this, However I am extremely worried the BC Government and the Lower Mainland will cheap out and try and build a crappy LRT system instead of the skytrain.

Subway, skytrain, whatever. Just don't waste money on LRT.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly.

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

Video report from Global TV BC: UBC-Broadway rapid transit plans

So, a group of US urban transport experts are coming here to advise us. That's all well and good, except that when I see, as an example, the Houston TX tramway that gets
pranged by motor vehicles,and other projects, like the Seattle LRT,
whose ridership is a quarter (or less) than ours, I have to wonder why we can't design this ourselves? We've done a pretty good job so far.
Why the need to choose between LRT, bus, and why not stick to pure subway, which seems the preferred mode, anyway?
And why the need to call in outside advisors, when our rrt system is already rated among the top in North America for a city our size?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

So, a group of US urban transport experts are coming here to advise us. That's all well and good, except that when I see, as an example, the Houston TX tramway that gets
pranged by motor vehicles,and other projects, like the Seattle LRT,
whose ridership is a quarter (or less) than ours, I have to wonder why we can't design this ourselves? We've done a pretty good job so far.
Why the need to choose between LRT, bus, and why not stick to pure subway, which seems the preferred mode, anyway?
And why the need to call in outside advisors, when our rrt system is already rated among the top in North America for a city our size?

Coming from the consulting industry, developers, city governments, etc. may have a vision, but that vision needs to be supported with evidence, studies, analysis, etc. If it isn't supported and goes through discussion/scrutiny/consultation/media, the project/vision would be heavily criticised. Sometimes, it isn't about looking for outside advisors to "advise", but rather, to "reaffirm".

And sometimes, we do need advice. A lot of the recent transit project consulting approaches, optimisation projects, etc. have been brought in through outside support. At the end of the day, our transportation system has a lot to learn and could use some outside influences to help improve our system.

[spm2013]

They're more urban planners/real estate wonks than having an expertise in transport systems.

Richard Reynolds, Senior Advisor to the EVP
Tufts University, Boston, MA

Patrick Callahan, Chief Executive Officer
Urban Renaissance Group, Seattle, WA

Richard Gollis, Principal
The Concord Group, LLC, Newport Beach, CA

Ralph L. Núñez, RLA, CLARB, ASLA, GRP, Principal Partner
DesignTeam Plus, LLC, Southfield, MI

And they're limited schedule.

Tuesday, February 4: Broadway tour and stakeholder interviews - media access to tour visuals and ULI BC spokesperson only

Wednesday, February 5: All-day private panel work session - no media access

Thursday, February 6: Report presentation and Q&A – open to the public, all stakeholders and media

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by deasine

Coming from the consulting industry, developers, city governments, etc. may have a vision, but that vision needs to be supported with evidence, studies, analysis, etc. If it isn't supported and goes through discussion/scrutiny/consultation/media, the project/vision would be heavily criticised. Sometimes, it isn't about looking for outside advisors to "advise", but rather, to "reaffirm".

And sometimes, we do need advice. A lot of the recent transit project consulting approaches, optimisation projects, etc. have been brought in through outside support. At the end of the day, our transportation system has a lot to learn and could use some outside influences to help improve our system.

Thank you, I see your point. I just hope you're right, given the makeup of this advisory committee, as pointed out by spm2013 above. I'd hate to see Broadway lose its rights to a subway, and get stuck with a Houston-style "prangway" instead.

[makr3trkr]

I would like to know what the cost savings would be to elevate the line west of Alma.



the Victoria Diversion Skytrain in east Vancouver gives an idea of what it might look like.

Of course, it would be political suicide ... nevermind that the $3 billion figure is 4-5 times the cost per kilometre of the Millenium line, even accounting for inflation.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

I would like to know what the cost savings would be to elevate the line west of Alma.



the Victoria Diversion Skytrain in east Vancouver gives an idea of what it might look like.

Of course, it would be political suicide ... nevermind that the $3 billion figure is 4-5 times the cost per kilometre of the Millenium line, even accounting for inflation.

I dunno what the exact cost savings figures are but its safe to assume it would be extremely significant. As a matter of fact, I'm certain that if the Broadway line was elevated, you would have more than enough money to build the Surrey LRT and Broadway Line at the same time. But as you already pointed out, cost savings is out of the window when it comes to ruffling the creme de la creme who would be directly affected...

[rsxstock]

i thought it was worked out to have skytrain from vcc up to broadway and to ubc. have a station at great northern way, one at cambie to connect the cambie line, one at ubc, and then figure out the rest along broadway

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by rsxstock

i thought it was worked out to have skytrain from vcc up to broadway and to ubc. have a station at great northern way, one at cambie to connect the cambie line, one at ubc, and then figure out the rest along broadway

It's generally accepted that'll be the line orientation, but they were discussing elevated versus tunnelled.

I'm sure you could switch from underground to elevated around Arbutus, but the problem being it's that section between Arbutus and UBC that has the most affluent, err influential voices.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Meraki

It's generally accepted that'll be the line orientation, but they were discussing elevated versus tunnelled.

I'm sure you could switch from underground to elevated around Arbutus, but the problem being it's that section between Arbutus and UBC that has the most affluent, err influential voices.

I think your statement is very true, but globally speaking, it would render much of Point Grey rather hideous, in my opinion. And no I'm not speaking on behalf of wealth NIMBYs, but for the residents of the entire city, and equally, visitors. Otherwise stated, an elevated track through West Point Grey would, IMO, be just freakingly, hideously, monstrously ugly.