Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by stayinginformed

The new line should go all the way to the end of the line. Most of the students and almost all of the University employees don't get off at the stadium station.

Agreed. It's not really much of a Airport to University line if the line ends at the door steps to the University.

[CountyLemonade]

Actually, the majority of students get on and off at Stadium. It's still not good policy to end the line there, though. End the Green Line at Central Station and you have some extra operating money to route the Black Line to Medical Center. Easy. It'd be seriously super nice to have seven-minute frequencies on North Temple, but I think a Medical-to-airport line is more vital.

[Makid]

I think that stopping at the stadium stop does have benefits, It would allow an extension of the new line potentially along Foothill. That would allow for placing another stop to help service the stadium. That would reduce the pedestrian congestion on the single platform and divide the ridership between 2 trains with different locations.

As a first phase of the extension it could stop just before I-80. They would also be able to have a stop near Sunnyside with shuttles running to Red Butte, Natural History Museum, Business park and the Zoo. The end of the first phase could be a larger park and ride location. The SLC to Park City bus would be able to stop there and people could transfer as needed. It would allow a transfer to a possible future Park City rail line as well.

Phase 2 could be an extension to the base of Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons.

phase 3a/3b could then be run up the canyons to the resorts/town of Alta.

Then phase 4 would be from Alta to Park City.

The phases above would just be off shoots from this new line and don't factor in possible other East/West lines at 2100 South, 3300 South, 5400 South and 90th South. Each of those would connect to the current main line as well as the future 5600 West LRT line.

Now, all of this is mostly just fantasy but just imagine the ridership potentials. Having 3 long North/South lines each connected to each other via East/West connections at 15 Minute or better frequency would definitely increase ridership, have a direct effect on air quality and continue to encourage/spur denser development where it is already happening.

Full fantasy from there continues to see BRT/Streetcar upgrades along remaining long/straight North South and East/West connections.

I once estimated the total cost of just the Canyon extensions through the East/West rail connections as they aren't listed anywhere and the total cost for just the phase 1, phase 2 extensions of the possible new line and the E/W connections across the valley to the 5600 LRT line came in at between $4B and $8B depending on the final alignment of the lines, the ability to use existing parking lots as Park and Ride locations and timing of construction with costs being lower if construction was sooner rather than later.

Yes, I know that it is a bit of a dream but it is also in the realm of possibility for the next 30 to 45 years if not sooner with political and voter will.

[EPdesign]

They need to do something to keep the Intermodal hub and actual hub

[Palladio]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

They need to do something to keep the Intermodal hub an actual hub

I disagree. I don't see anything wrong with dispersing the traffic in the city among several different points. Sure, it's a nice idea to have one central transit hub in the city, but in all reality a city should have multiple major inter modal switching points. Think New York City's Grand Central, Penn Station, World Trade Center Hub, Jamaica station complex, etc.

Salt Lake City is doing that too. I think our three biggest intermodal points are North Temple, Salt Lake Central and Murray Central. And to that extent Central Pointe and Courthouse could be included on there too.

There's nothing wrong with expanding and making the current hug bigger and better, but in terms of actual service, it shouldn't be a pressing goal.

[TexasRE]

One thing that always impressed me about the Greater Salt Lake metropolitan region was how it addressed its mass transit, be it LRT or other. For a metropolitan area of 2.3 million, it's quite impressive and they're building on it. With continued strong growth in the area, plus downtown in major transition, mass transit is essential for the region to prosper without urban sprawl. I believe that the Salt Lake City region will be a city for others to emulate concerning mass transit. I always loved Salt Lake City, one of my favorites in the world.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by Palladio

I disagree. I don't see anything wrong with dispersing the traffic in the city among several different points. Sure, it's a nice idea to have one central transit hub in the city, but in all reality a city should have multiple major inter modal switching points. Think New York City's Grand Central, Penn Station, World Trade Center Hub, Jamaica station complex, etc.

Salt Lake City is doing that too. I think our three biggest intermodal points are North Temple, Salt Lake Central and Murray Central. And to that extent Central Pointe and Courthouse could be included on there too.

There's nothing wrong with expanding and making the current hug bigger and better, but in terms of actual service, it shouldn't be a pressing goal.

I retract my statement. I actually agree with this logic. Palladio that is a great way to look at it. thank you

[Hatman]

I'm glad they're finnally talking publicly about this new line. As much as I would like to see a foothills extension (and in the far future I think that will probably happen) I think the line ending at Stadium rather than going to the medical center is a result of headways and number of LRT cars available. My old supervisor friend - since moved on to a different shift - wasn't at all accurate about the timeline for opening, but he was the one who oversaw initial dead-of-night tests for the line between September and November last year. He told me they were experimenting with 4 trainsets at 20 minute headways, or the regular 15 minute headways, which would require 5 trainsets. If they turn around at the stadium they could probably have both the 15 minute headways and the lower costs of one less trainset - not to mention the energy costs saved by not running cars up the rest of the hill. The university line is one of the steepest LRT lines in the whole country.

I hope the public will complain enough that the black line will be extended all the way to the medical center. That's usually how these things work. UTA just likes to test the water before they commit to things, which is understandable when these things cost millions of dollars.

Also, it looks like electrical testing is underway for a 5 car (2 comets, 3 boms) Frontrunner consist. I saw a formed consist in the warm springs yard a while back (it was dark, no pictures). It's a very small thing, I know, but it makes me happy because it means that ridership is increasing. They sure could have used the longer trains last month with all the holloday\temple square visitors...

[CountyLemonade]

Originally Posted by Palladio

I disagree. I don't see anything wrong with dispersing the traffic in the city among several different points. Sure, it's a nice idea to have one central transit hub in the city, but in all reality a city should have multiple major inter modal switching points. Think New York City's Grand Central, Penn Station, World Trade Center Hub, Jamaica station complex, etc.

Salt Lake City is doing that too. I think our three biggest intermodal points are North Temple, Salt Lake Central and Murray Central. And to that extent Central Pointe and Courthouse could be included on there too.

There's nothing wrong with expanding and making the current hug bigger and better, but in terms of actual service, it shouldn't be a pressing goal.

Spot on. It'd be great if Central Station were the hub it was originally intended to be, but placing more focus (i.e., rerouting more lines) there would be an inconvenience to most people. For instance, imagine if trains from the airport ended at Central Station (using the once-proposed 600 West route) and passengers wishing to continue downtown would have to transfer to a Blue Line train. Pretty impractical, pretty inconvenient. Today's setup works out nicely.

[Palladio]

Originally Posted by TexasRE

One thing that always impressed me about the Greater Salt Lake metropolitan region was how it addressed its mass transit, be it LRT or other. For a metropolitan area of 2.3 million, it's quite impressive and they're building on it. With continued strong growth in the area, plus downtown in major transition, mass transit is essential for the region to prosper without urban sprawl. I believe that the Salt Lake City region will be a city for others to emulate concerning mass transit. I always loved Salt Lake City, one of my favorites in the world.

The cool thing about Salt Lake City is that despite being 50th in the nation for metropolitan size, we are 8th in the nation for light rail transit ridership by number. That puts our proportion of transit rides much above many other metropolitan areas. I think this is a sign that when our city inevitably grows up into a more urban center when we reach the maximum sprawl at the edges of our valleys, we are going to be well on the right path to having the solid bones for a truly great transit oriented metropolis.

Sure that is a wide eye stary vision of the future, but it is totally how I see the future of Salt Lake City.

[jedikermit]

There was a family argument at my parent's house over Sunday dinner. The topic was the Sugarhouse streetcar. My dad and brother-in-law were adamant that the streetcar should have gone up to Sugarhouse Park and had that as an endpoint; that 1100 East was too narrow to begin with; My wife and I came down on the side that 1100 East was perfectly fine, and ridership from Westminster would be more significant that park-goers.

The irony of course is that none of us live anywhere near Sugarhouse. But we certainly have opinions.

This was after those same people went off on how unnecessary and stupid the UPAC is. And a Convention Center Hotel. And skyscrapers in general. And office buildings. And where did I even come from, because this family...THIS is when I start drinking.

[Makid]

I noticed something interesting on the way into work this morning.

All of the overhead signs had removed "tomorrow" from their line up of --> For better air, use transit, For better air carpool, for better air combine trips.

I think that removing just the word tomorrow will actually have an impact on people.

[SLCMoosy]

Here's a video I found that some of you might enjoy about the Bamberger Railroad aka Frontrunner version 1.0.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTDFduRvSGw

[Future Mayor]

Thanks for the video. My Dad talks about the Bamberger every now and then, he used to love riding it as a kid.

One thing to note, I believe it had a spur that went out to Saltair as well.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Thanks for the video. My Dad talks about the Bamberger every now and then, he used to love riding it as a kid.

One thing to note, I believe it had a spur that went out to Saltair as well.

Yup, it did. My grandma used to tell me all about THAT. And how great the amusements out there were. The dance hall, the roller coaster, the fires...good times, good times.

[SLCMoosy]

My younger brother commented how he wished he had a time machine so he could go back and ride the Bamberger. Our family isn't from around here so I don't know anyone personally who can tell me any stories about it. My dad used to sing barbershop with the Saltaires and there was a quartet in the chorus who performed separately as the Bamberger Express. They were older men, not sure if they're still around or singing anymore but that was my first exposure to the Bamberger name.

[CountyLemonade]

Just thought now'd be a good time to reflect on just how far we've come.

Video Link

[jedikermit]

Great video -- thanks for sharing. It looks like Streetfilms has some similar stuff about urban planning and smart growth, I'll be looking for more of their work.

[jmonkey]

That's an awesome video! Thanks for sharing it, CountyLemonade.

[justiny]

Both great video links, many thanks for the links. I remember my grandfather was always confusing Bamberger with Bangerter... Especially when the highway first started construction in the late 80's.

Both are interesting in the fact that we went from rail to automobile, and now migrating toward some hybrid of the two... Makes me think where the city will be 100 years from now.