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  #181  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 2:41 AM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I understand the City's need to balance the needs of Ottawa and those of surrounding municipalities, but sometimes Ottawa needs to take initiative in building the metropolitan region as opposed to only looking at helping itself. Buying those railway tracks (or at least the rights of way) could eventually generate money for the big city and benefit the smaller municipalities around by providing proper public transit between them and the city.

That said, not that it has anything to do with commuter rail, I completely agree with the City's decision to delay the widening of the 174 indefinitely. IMO, that would only benefit Rockland, attracting more people to a car friendly suburb far from Ottawa's employment areas.
Why? The city was proactive in purchasing the Prince of Wales Bridge and in the long run, they will be stuck with a large bill to repair the bridge, with little possibility of creating much more than a bicycle path across it for the foreseeable future. And this is in the heart of the city.

Buying a rail line outside the city in a economically depressed rural area with stagnant population does not seem to be a winning proposition even in the long term.
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  #182  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 2:56 AM
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It has the potential to service Kanata North and Carp. We seem all-too keen to fund highways out to Arnprior and Rockland for hundreds of millions, but a $20M line with the potential to spur TOD development (in places like Carp and Kanata) and economic development in places like Portage-du-Fort, Norway Bay and Fitzroy Harbour. We could ask for contributions from the municipalities and the provinces and fund it by capturing property value increases and development along the line.

We've spent a heck of a lot more on a heck of a lot less.
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  #183  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 3:07 AM
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It has the potential to service Kanata North and Carp. We seem all-too keen to fund highways out to Arnprior and Rockland for hundreds of millions, but a $20M line with the potential to spur TOD development (in places like Carp and Kanata) and economic development in places like Portage-du-Fort, Norway Bay and Fitzroy Harbour. We could ask for contributions from the municipalities and the provinces and fund it by capturing property value increases and development along the line.

We've spent a heck of a lot more on a heck of a lot less.
What exactly would we be buying? That is not entirely clear.
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  #184  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 3:50 AM
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I think the fight to save the rail line is pointless. The reason why CN and CP have wanted to lift rail lines in the Ottawa valley is because there are simply no customers left. If rail service was so important then why aren't companies using it?

I realize that this may compromise the future in some respects but no business can continue with zero customers.
Nice rant. Except there aren't zero customers. There were quite a few in and around Pembroke and others in Portage-du-Fort, plus the old mine at Bristol that supplies aggregate. Indeed it's for the businesses in the Portage-du-Fort business park that MRC Pontiac is desperately trying to save the line; without that line current businesses may close, others won't expand and some of the closed factories will never reopen.

Ottawa Central was a profitable operation until the day it was taken over by CN, and it was taken over by CN solely because Ottawa Central's parent company refused to sell some of its other assets without selling them all. What CN actually wanted was some track elsewhere in Quebec, which, ironically enough, it had already disposed of in the 1990s - that's how short-sighted CN can be.

As for the CP line, it's long been known amongst industry in the valey that CP was very unresponsive to both existing and would-be customers. I happen to know that some even tried to get CP's attention by going through their MP, to no avail.

CN and CP have a habit of deliberately destroying their customer bases along lesser lines; for them it's not just enough for a line to be profitable, it has to be profitable enough to pull up their operating ratios.

Instead, both companies want to salvage the rails to lay them elsewhere on their networks, particularly out west to serve the currently booming oil-by-train bonanza. When that's spent in 5-10 years once the various pipelines get built, they'll probably tear those tracks back up and scrap them.

If it hadn't been for CN buying Ottawa Central, OCR probably would have bought the CP line itself as it would have nicely added to Ottawa Central's business by giving them access to all of Renfrew County. In that case there wouldn't be the opportunity for ignorant, ill-informed ranting about zero customers.


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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Why? The city was proactive in purchasing the Prince of Wales Bridge and in the long run, they will be stuck with a large bill to repair the bridge, with little possibility of creating much more than a bicycle path across it for the foreseeable future. And this is in the heart of the city.
Just because the City of Ottawa's transit and transportation planning department is run by bus-nuts should not be used to discount the wisdom of buying that bridge. The O-Train could easily have been extended to Terrasses de la Chaudière and Place du Portage a decade ago, and in so doing could virtually have eliminated the high cost shuttle bus run over the Chaudière Bridge. How many millions have been wasted by OC Transpo by their dogmatic refusal to do anything about that costly shuttle bus run? Instead they've given us the perpetual excuse of waiting for the results of some ethereal interprovincial study that none of the agencies ever seemed to want to initiate.

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Buying a rail line outside the city in a economically depressed rural area with stagnant population does not seem to be a winning proposition even in the long term.
Well we would have ready access to a source of granite ballast for our LRT project. But hey, let's just truck it all in or use lesser quality limestone ballast or import it from afar.
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  #185  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 3:53 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Why? The city was proactive in purchasing the Prince of Wales Bridge and in the long run, they will be stuck with a large bill to repair the bridge, with little possibility of creating much more than a bicycle path across it for the foreseeable future. And this is in the heart of the city.

Buying a rail line outside the city in a economically depressed rural area with stagnant population does not seem to be a winning proposition even in the long term.
The Prince of Whales could be used for much more than a bike path. It could be part of the Rapibus (my personal favourite option), crossing to Ottawa where Gatineau's population would transfer to the ORT. Or it could be used to cross the O-train (personally not a fan). It could also be used as a commuter rail line to Chelsea ad Wakefield in the north and Masson-Anger, Buckingham, Turso and Montebello to the east.

The lines west of Ottawa could be used (as mentioned by Aylmer) to serve Kanata and Carp as well as other suburban towns like Carleton Place, Arnprior and Almonte. I'm sure we could also use the southern lines to serve Richmond and Smith Falls.

I'll concede that the idea of commuter rail is much less attractive today because of the City's plans to build the ORT as more of a suburban solution to transit. If we would have built a proper subway system in the city years ago, we could have invested in a proper commuter rail option for Kanata, Barrhaven and suburban Gatineau, but the ship has sailed on that idea in favour of busways and a suburban centric rapid transit plan.
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  #186  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:09 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I understand the City's need to balance the needs of Ottawa and those of surrounding municipalities, but sometimes Ottawa needs to take initiative in building the metropolitan region as opposed to only looking at helping itself. Buying those railway tracks (or at least the rights of way) could eventually generate money for the big city and benefit the smaller municipalities around by providing proper public transit between them and the city.
The shortsightedness, small-mindedness, and cheapskatosity of Ottawa, knows no lower bounds.
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  #187  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:11 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Why? The city was proactive in purchasing the Prince of Wales Bridge and in the long run, they will be stuck with a large bill to repair the bridge, with little possibility of creating much more than a bicycle path across it for the foreseeable future. And this is in the heart of the city.
There is only little possibility because Ottawa (and Gatineau) are cheap, small-minded, visionless hick towns.
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  #188  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:12 AM
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Instead they've given us the perpetual excuse of waiting for the results of some ethereal interprovincial study that none of the agencies ever seemed to want to initiate.
And, once initiated, and many, many, many years later, completed and published, was promptly shelved.
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  #189  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2015, 12:56 PM
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A new commuter bus service launched today from the Cantley, Chelsea, Val-des-monts area

14 routes

http://transcollines.ca/home/

https://twitter.com/HallieCBC/status/610425109564645376


The fares seem to be quite a good price


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/new...bec-to-gatineau-ottawa-1.3113432?cmp=rss

Last edited by c_speed3108; Jun 15, 2015 at 1:21 PM.
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  #190  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2015, 2:11 PM
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Great initiative for the Outaouais, lets hope this works out longterm!
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  #191  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2015, 11:30 PM
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Something is going on with MOOSE this month. I had nothing to do and had some spare time so I was just looking around when all of a sudden I came along this.

http://www.eventbrite.ca/e/moose-regional-rail-system-and-safety-implications-tickets-17596248854

Seems like a meeting of some sort for Regional Rail System and Safety Implications on July 23ed, 2015

Starts at 11:45 and ends at 1:00.

Just wanted to put this out here for you guys.
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  #192  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2015, 11:57 PM
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No chance it will ever happen. No political will.
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  #193  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2015, 11:42 PM
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Commuter train issue comes back to council

Smiths Falls Record News
By Stacey Roy
Sep 09, 2015

Representatives of a commuter train company will be asking Smiths Falls council to provide them with a letter of support at a future council session.

“I’m sure it’s going to be coming up shortly,” said Coun. John Maloney.

Lorraine Allen continues to remain in contact with the commuter train company since their initial meeting in Smiths Falls in 2011, and recently invited Maloney to attend an Aug. 5 meeting with representatives of Mobility Ottawa-Outaouais: Systems and Enterprises (mOOse) Inc.

“It’s was a great meeting,” Maloney said, adding. “They’re just in their infancy.”

We have a very ambitious timeline and we’re sticking to it. Joseph Potvin
The project’s scope would include commuter lines running from Smiths Falls, Arnprior, Bristol, Quebec, Montebello, Quebec; Alexandria and all point in between. This includes significantly improved access to the City of Ottawa.

Joseph Potvin, president and general manager of mOOse Inc. and fellow stakeholders have been working diligently to secure the 400km commuter route prior to their 2017 anticipated launch date.

“We have a very ambitious timeline and we’re sticking to it,” Potvin said. “We’re actually making significant progress in moving our project forward.”

Their work behind the scenes is expected to produce a public announcement before the snow flies this year.

The biggest challenge so far in the process has been gaining necessary repairs and access to the Prince of Wales Bridge that links the Ontario and Quebec routes.

“It’s a kilometer long bridge, but it’s the most important kilometer in the 400,” Potvin said.

The company is currently working with the Rail Safety Directorate of Transport Canada and the Canadian Transportation Agency to gain clarity on use of the bridge.

Maloney is intrigued by the proposal and the possibility of moving Smiths Falls residents to and from the nation’s capital with greater ease.

“It’s definitely a good news story, especially for Smiths Falls,” Maloney said.

He hopes a 2017 launch date will mean increased residential and commercial growth for the community and with that increased property values.


http://www.insideottawavalley.com/news-story/5833877-commuter-train-issue-comes-back-to-council/

Last edited by ACmodels; Sep 11, 2015 at 9:41 PM.
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  #194  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2015, 2:41 PM
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It's great that Watson had been championing rapid transit in Ottawa but his resistance to this project, which wouldn't require any tax funding, is ridiculous. It's basically free transit infrastructure from the city's standpoint. I love the moose idea. It could also mesh very well with the O-train network. I guess Watson doesn't realize that you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. In order to have good transit in a metropolis you need local (bus), rapid (metro/lrt/brt), and rural (commuter rail) transit.

I sure hope the city doesn't manage to dismantle the 1.5 B$ of infrastructure on the prince of Wales bride to convert it into a useless pedestrian bridge.
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  #195  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2015, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FFX-ME View Post
It's great that Watson had been championing rapid transit in Ottawa but his resistance to this project, which wouldn't require any tax funding, is ridiculous. It's basically free transit infrastructure from the city's standpoint. I love the moose idea. It could also mesh very well with the O-train network. I guess Watson doesn't realize that you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. In order to have good transit in a metropolis you need local (bus), rapid (metro/lrt/brt), and rural (commuter rail) transit.

I sure hope the city doesn't manage to dismantle the 1.5 B$ of infrastructure on the prince of Wales bride to convert it into a useless pedestrian bridge.
Do we really want to make it easier for people to live that far out though? Like its an idea, but for example GO trains pass through large cities on the way to Toronto, same with the commuter rail in MTL. The starting points of these trains, with the exception of Hawksebury-Rockland, might hold 10,000 people.
We'd be better off trying to connect Trillium line with downtown Gatineau, I agree the PoW bridge should remain for rail use. At least extending the Trillium line there would extend benefits to the city of Gatineau, especially in the form of student tenants and easier access for residents to Ottawa.
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  #196  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2015, 1:31 AM
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The only way we will ever see interprovincial rapid transit is if the federal government takes the initiative. And with the current government, no way.
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  #197  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2015, 3:57 AM
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Originally Posted by silvergate View Post
Do we really want to make it easier for people to live that far out though? Like its an idea, but for example GO trains pass through large cities on the way to Toronto, same with the commuter rail in MTL. The starting points of these trains, with the exception of Hawksebury-Rockland, might hold 10,000 people.
In the grand scheme of things, it really isn't worth getting worked up about commuter trains from Smiths Falls.

Smiths Falls is an existing place with a population that has seen numerous economic setbacks of late. There are likely already people from Smiths Falls commuting into Ottawa for work, and others who have moved here reluctantly, contributing to sprawl here in one way or another. I imagine some would sooner stay in Smiths Falls or move back were the commuting options better.

Let's put it another way: before commuter rail to Smiths Falls could have overall pro-sprawl implications for the region, it would first have to staunch Smiths Falls' population decline, then reverse it and finally cause it to start expanding not just beyond historic levels but also at rates above those of the rest of the region. Short of someone dropping a few thousand refugees on Smiths Falls for resettlement, that seems highly improbable at the kind of service levels being proposed.
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  #198  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2015, 8:12 PM
Mr.Flintstone Mr.Flintstone is offline
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If the prince of wales bridge get converted to pedestrian bridge. That will be another mistake for the capital region. Its too obvious, just put an LRT train that goes all the way to gatineau.
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  #199  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2015, 5:53 PM
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Short of someone dropping a few thousand refugees on Smiths Falls for resettlement, that seems highly improbable at the kind of service levels being proposed.
So youre saying we could put all of our refugees in Smiths Falls? I could just see it now, a sprawling metropolis made from refugees and a population numbering in the hundreds of thousands... Actually, that would be a better idea than throwing them at Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto.
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  #200  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2015, 8:53 PM
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This seems like a bizarre proposal. Very little of the route is suitable for regular commuter service without major capital expenditures, the VIA line already has capacity issues, most of the communities served are tiny and are not really commuter oriented they have no identifiable source of funds and are going to launch in 2 years?
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