Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[S-Man]

The City never figured out how to deal with the NCC in such a strategic way, so I'm betting the timing is just a coincidence.

I would agree. A group of engineers can hash out a plan to build anything practically on the spot, but an EA is a very time-consuming, check-the-boxes kind of thing. And, as I believe the province is involved, having that extra level of government involved makes it even slower.

[J.OT13]

I read in the Citizen that the City is planning to move Lincoln Fields station south of Carling, made possible by the new plan to extend Bayshore. This would apparently somehow free up some room around Pinecrest Creek due to the elimination of the parallel bus Transitway (since the transfer station will be at Bayshore instead of LF).

How will this work? Where is there room for a new LF station south of Carling? And why move it? Where it stands today, it's closer to existing high density residential, the LF mall and lands with intensification potential.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I read in the Citizen that the City is planning to move Lincoln Fields station south of Carling, made possible by the new plan to extend Bayshore. This would apparently somehow free up some room around Pinecrest Creek due to the elimination of the parallel bus Transitway (since the transfer station will be at Bayshore instead of LF).

How will this work? Where is there room for a new LF station south of Carling? And why move it? Where it stands today, it's closer to existing high density residential, the LF mall and lands with intensification potential.

Do you have a link to that Citizen article? I must have missed it or didn't see it...

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by JCL

Do you have a link to that Citizen article? I must have missed it or didn't see it...

Here it is

"Schepers told the board the city’s decision to extend the western LRT to Bayshore allowed it to shift the Lincoln Fields station to a new location south of Carling Avenue and drop plans to run both buses and trains through the Pinecrest Creek corridor."

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I read in the Citizen that the City is planning to move Lincoln Fields station south of Carling, made possible by the new plan to extend Bayshore. This would apparently somehow free up some room around Pinecrest Creek due to the elimination of the parallel bus Transitway (since the transfer station will be at Bayshore instead of LF).

How will this work? Where is there room for a new LF station south of Carling? And why move it? Where it stands today, it's closer to existing high density residential, the LF mall and lands with intensification potential.

I read this too. In a way it makes sense because Lincoln Fields will no longer be a major bus transfer station. Will buses simply stop on the Carling Avenue bridge and passengers descend to LRT by stairs or elevators? Or will buses still enter the LRT station below the bridge?

Another question, now that we have accepted a branched solution, what kind of service levels will be delivered on each branch particularly during off-peak hours? I'd hate to see frequency drop to 20 minutes or longer during any service hour.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Here it is

That's the one, thanks!

Seems to me under the bridge would be the best solution; best pedestrian access, easier to install stairs/elevators and the bridge itself can act as a roof to the station.

As for frequency, if they run the trains every 2 minutes in the central segment at rush hour, they could run the 2 spurs at 4 minutes (with trains having 600 person capacity, that would add up to 9000 pph).

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I read this too. In a way it makes sense because Lincoln Fields will no longer be a major bus transfer station. Will buses simply stop on the Carling Avenue bridge and passengers descend to LRT by stairs or elevators? Or will buses still enter the LRT station below the bridge?

Another question, now that we have accepted a branched solution, what kind of service levels will be delivered on each branch particularly during off-peak hours? I'd hate to see frequency drop to 20 minutes or longer during any service hour.

We've got no answer on that one. I know the current service plan for Confederation Line phase 1:
-every 3 minutes during peak
-every 5 minutes during almost all other times
-every 10 minutes during late nights, very early mornings, weekend mornings

From what I gather the 10 minute frequency period will be restricted to something like after 10pm, before 6am, and before 9am on weekends.

Assuming no service level increase post-phase 2, we'll see 20 minute frequency during those low frequency periods. Seeing as how the current Transitway has 30 minute frequency in those time periods west/south of LF, it will still be an improvement.

[OTSkyline]

Hopefully by phase 2 we will purchase more vehicles and have them on the tracks. There is no way in hell the frequency should go to 20 minutes, especially not AFTER having it at max 10 minutes during phase 1.

Ottawa is the capital of Canada and is a growing city, we need to move people around and do so efficiently! Look at Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and all the other big cities, they offer frequent service on their public transit... 2, 3, 4 minutes... MAYBE go to every 6 minutes top. So I think 10 minutes in Ottawa in VERY dead or off-peak times (like the ones posted above) is the minimum we should be doing.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I think that it's great that the NCC is fighting, fighting for unimpeded access to the Ottawa River. LRT would eliminate the freedom of all Ottovians and indeed all Canadians to skip freely to the water's edge.

Oh give me a break. Until they get rid of all of their parkways (which are basically commuter roads in most cases and a full-on highway for the Ottawa River Parkway), the NCC has absolutely zero credibility.

They're already in negative credibility: sometime in the early 2000s they removed the level crossing north of Churchill.

That's how much the NCC believes in access to the Ottawa River.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Hopefully by phase 2 we will purchase more vehicles and have them on the tracks. There is no way in hell the frequency should go to 20 minutes, especially not AFTER having it at max 10 minutes during phase 1.

Ottawa is the capital of Canada and is a growing city, we need to move people around and do so efficiently! Look at Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and all the other big cities, they offer frequent service on their public transit... 2, 3, 4 minutes... MAYBE go to every 6 minutes top. So I think 10 minutes in Ottawa in VERY dead or off-peak times (like the ones posted above) is the minimum we should be doing.

Definitely agree, I'm just pointing out the worst case scenario. I feel like we'll likely end up with 15 minutes on each branch during the very dead times, or 7.5 minutes combined east of LF (although better would of course be nice)

[waterloowarrior]

Eastern LRT extension EA statement of work
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=314332


Lincoln Field to Bayshore extension EA statement of work
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=314346

[OTSkyline]

Is it just me or is there just too many stations? I mean... 7 stations in Orleans, I think, is excessive... It just means we are spending more money than we have to on stations AND the trains will always be stopping, therefore increasing the time of commute significantly...

I would stick with 5 stations in Orleans..
1) Jeanne D'Arc
2) Orleans Blvd.
3) Place D'Orleans
4) Tenth Line
5) Trim

Thoughts?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Is it just me or is there just too many stations? I mean... 7 stations in Orleans, I think, is excessive... It just means we are spending more money than we have to on stations AND the trains will always be stopping, therefore increasing the time of commute significantly...

I would stick with 5 stations in Orleans..
1) Jeanne D'Arc
2) Orleans Blvd.
3) Place D'Orleans
4) Tenth Line
5) Trim

Thoughts?

It's actually 8 stations east of Blair (counting Montreal Road). Stage 2 showed the ORT extended to Place d'Orleans with 4 stations, but the EA includes studying an extension to Trim, adding 3 stations.

The EA adds up to 1 station per 0.6 km, way too many stations.

Compare it to the current Confederation Line, 1 station per 0.92 km or the western extension (Tunney's to LF), 1 station per 1.13 km in a mostly high density, urban area.

The City has it upside down; there should be more stations per km in the urban area than suburban, not the other way around. On top of that, they are considering eliminating one of the new western stations between Dominion and LF to afford the NCC's Parkway demands.

If I was to be the sole decider on station location, here is what I would do;

1) Montreal
2) Jeanne d'Arc
3) Place d'Orleans
4) Tenth Line
5) Trim

I would eliminate Orleans Boulevard as it has 0 intensification potential. It's a fully developed low density area. No clue what's between 10th Line and trim but it has no business being there.

[McC]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Compare it to the current Confederation Line, 1 station per 0.92 km or the western extension (Tunney's to LF), 1 station per 1.13 km in a mostly high density, urban area.

The City has it upside down; there should be more stations per km in the urban area than suburban, not the other way around. On top of that, they are considering eliminating one of the new western stations between Dominion and LF to afford the NCC's Parkway demands.

It's the pits, and it isn't new either, check out the gazillion stations that were planned in Riverside South in the old NSLRT. The one that gets me most is the massive Our Lady of the Condos project, only 500metres from the line but it will be almost a kilometre from the nearest station (because of the ridiculous gap between Tunney's and Westboro. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: push Westboro to Churchill -- call it Winston-Churchill -- drop in a station at Island Park -- Sam-Champlain, maybe? -- and push Dominion to Richmond and Rochester Field and then all of the western stations are about the same 800-1000m distance apart).

[Schattenjager]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If I was to be the sole decider on station location, here is what I would do;

1) Montreal
2) Jeanne d'Arc
3) Place d'Orleans
4) Tenth Line
5) Trim

I would eliminate Orleans Boulevard as it has 0 intensification potential. It's a fully developed low density area. No clue what's between 10th Line and trim but it has no business being there.

I disagree, I think there should be a station at Orleans Blvd since it would better serve students going to Cairine Wilson and St Matt's and the Convent Glen Shopping Plaza. Also, it would most likely help revitalize St Joseph Blvd.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by McC

It's the pits, and it isn't new either, check out the gazillion stations that were planned in Riverside South in the old NSLRT. The one that gets me most is the massive Our Lady of the Condos project, only 500metres from the line but it will be almost a kilometre from the nearest station (because of the ridiculous gap between Tunney's and Westboro. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: push Westboro to Churchill -- call it Winston-Churchill -- drop in a station at Island Park -- Sam-Champlain, maybe? -- and push Dominion to Richmond and Rochester Field and then all of the western stations are about the same 800-1000m distance apart).

I might build one around Lanark so that the distance from Metropole and other potential developments isn't compromised. It would also make for a more direct walk between the stations and World of Ashcroft. I fully agree with moving Westboro to Churchill. I would keep Dominion at the same spot (unless we can somehow re-develop Rochester Field). Further west, I would add Cleary, Woodroffe and New Orchard.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

It's actually 8 stations east of Blair (counting Montreal Road). Stage 2 showed the ORT extended to Place d'Orleans with 4 stations, but the EA includes studying an extension to Trim, adding 3 stations (with the 4th being Montreal inside the greenbelt).

The EA adds up to 1 station per 0.6 km, way too many stations.

Compare it to the current Confederation Line, 1 station per 0.92 km or the western extension (Tunney's to LF), 1 station per 1.13 km in a mostly high density, urban area.

The City has it upside down; there should be more stations per km in the urban area than suburban, not the other way around. On top of that, they are considering eliminating one of the new western stations between Dominion and LF to afford the NCC's Parkway demands.

If I was to be the sole decider on station location, here is what I would do;

1) Montreal
2) Jeanne d'Arc
3) Place d'Orleans
4) Tenth Line
5) Trim

I would eliminate Orleans Boulevard as it has 0 intensification potential. It's a fully developed low density area. No clue what's between 10th Line and trim but it has no business being there.

As a resident of Orleans I fully agree that a station at Orlean Blvd would be useless. In fact, the overpass was added after the houses the were built so there isn't much space left (high embankment fills on each side). I'm pretty sure the EA will come to the same conclusion and the City will eventually drop that station.

A station half-way between Place D'Orleans and Tenth Line makes sense given the current (and future Brigil) intensification going on there. It could also provide a means for residents north of OR174 to cross the highway to reach the Town Centre amenities.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Schattenjager

I disagree, I think there should be a station at Orleans Blvd since it would better serve students going to Cairine Wilson and St Matt's and the Convent Glen Shopping Plaza. Also, it would most likely help revitalize St Joseph Blvd.

I have no clue; I only based my station locations by looking at google maps. That said, I still wouldn't build an extra 40 million dollar station to serve a few high school students. They can bus or walk (?).

[OTSkyline]

Are these plans finalized yet or are they just... plans?

I really think there are too many stations and the city should hear about this and try to modify it. I would cut 2 in Orleans and 1 or 2 in that west-end expansion. It's not like the area WOULDN'T be served by LRT or anything... It would mean that the worst case scenario someone living at the intersection of Du Bois and Bilburry would have to walk 1km to Place d'Orleans station OR 700m to Orleans Blvd station... Is that too much to ask?

Less spending on useless stations = more money for further extensions.

How much money would 3 stations save?

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

No clue what's between 10th Line and trim but it has no business being there.

Isn't La Cité's Orleans campus there?

I'd like to see a station near Jasmine between Blair & Montreal. There's guaranteed ridership from that area.