The Great Canadian Skyline Thread! II

[Tone]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

In Hamilton's case, Burlington might be the equivalent though it's a separate city within the CMA. But even so, there have only been a couple of new buildings (condos) in the downtown area that are big enough to notice. More to come soon though.

There was a proposal for a neat 30-storey twin tower development in the southern part of Hamilton that hasn't gone forward yet.

I guess I mean a secondary skyline of office towers within the city proper.

Anyhow I though that Burlington was considered part of the GTA but I see on Wiki that its also part of the Hamilton CMA!

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Tone

I guess I mean a secondary skyline of office towers within the city proper.

Anyhow I though that Burlington was considered part of the GTA but I see on Wiki that its also part of the Hamilton CMA!

We keep our options open here.

No equivalent in that case, not in Hamilton. Even if you wanted to count Burlington, there are no major office towers downtown, just a few small ones and some stubby suburban-style office buildings in the industrial parks along the QEW.

[Tone]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

We keep our options open here.

I see!

Thanks for the answer!

[flar]

Burlington was supposed to be amalgamated with Hamilton back in the 70s, but a change in provincial government triggered a last minute reversal of the decision. This was a devasting blow to Hamilton, and a big contributor to its major decline since the 1980s. Since that time, almost all commercial and industrial development in the Hamilton area has been in Burlington. Burlington has a huge business park along the QEW and a lot of Hamilton's employment has shifted there, to the point where Hamilton has a net outflow of commuters. Burlington has for a long time been able to entice business away from Hamilton proper with low taxes, freedom from shady Hamilton politics and greenfields along highways. The City of Hamilton tax base has suffered greatly, to the point where Hamilton is basically funded by residential taxes. On top of it all, Hamilton ceded Aldershot to Burlington in the deal. This is where a lot of Hamilton's elite still reside (these are the people who wanted to reverse the amalgamation, they knew Hamilton was going down and Burlington had nowhere to go but up). Including Burlington in the GTA again shafted Hamilton big time, as in the past 10-15 years since then Toronto has really started to pull on Burlington.

[SteelTown]

^ At least now Burlington is maxed out on land. Business and residents are looking at Hamilton now.

Aldershot has vast empty land and it's mostly owned by one person who seems keen on keeping the land for sports related business, NHL, OHL, CFL, etc.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by flar

Burlington was supposed to be amalgamated with Hamilton back in the 70s, but a change in provincial government triggered a last minute reversal of the decision. This was a devasting blow to Hamilton, and a big contributor to its major decline since the 1980s. Since that time, almost all commercial and industrial development in the Hamilton area has been in Burlington. Burlington has a huge business park along the QEW and a lot of Hamilton's employment has shifted there, to the point where Hamilton has a net outflow of commuters. Burlington has for a long time been able to entice business away from Hamilton proper with low taxes, freedom from shady Hamilton politics and greenfields along highways. The City of Hamilton tax base has suffered greatly, to the point where Hamilton is basically funded by residential taxes. On top of it all, Hamilton ceded Aldershot to Burlington in the deal. This is where a lot of Hamilton's elite still reside (these are the people who wanted to reverse the amalgamation, they knew Hamilton was going down and Burlington had nowhere to go but up). Including Burlington in the GTA again shafted Hamilton big time, as in the past 10-15 years since then Toronto has really started to pull on Burlington.

And why would have amalgamation changed all of this for Hamilton? When municipalities merge, there is a whole new series of "shady" politics that arise that can harm economic potential: just look at Toronto and its battle prone municipal politics -- not even mentioning Rob Ford; I'm referencing the conflict of interests amongst the suburbs vs downtown.

If Hamilton is having trouble competing with Burlington in certain aspects, then clearly Hamilton hasn't done its job consolidating its outward development (sprawled infrastructure and public services) to better afford a lower tax rate to keep those industries and jobs.

And/or... perhaps: the race-to-the-bottom phenomenon in the world of corporate tax rates is horribly unethical because it forces the average consumer to deal with less.

[SteelTown]

Burlington is also the slowest growing city in the GTA as well. It has a lot of challenges over the next decade or two.

Mayor says Burlington must shift focus to keep up revenues

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/225294...on-must-shift-focus-to-keep-up-revenues/

BURLINGTON A 20-year push to double Burlington’s industrial-commercial tax base is starting as the city’s era of rapid residential growth ends.

Mayor Rick Goldring told the Burlington Chamber of Commerce Thursday the city wants to attract more than 1,500 new jobs a year or 29,000 by 2031.

“Burlington’s era of significant growth and new construction is over,” Goldring said. “We are out of land for large new residential subdivisions, and our supply of industrial commercial land is also constrained. We are not on automatic pilot growth anymore. ”

[flar]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

And why would have amalgamation changed all of this for Hamilton? When municipalities merge, there is a whole new series of "shady" politics that arise that can harm economic potential: just look at Toronto and its battle prone municipal politics -- not even mentioning Rob Ford; I'm referencing the conflict of interests amongst the suburbs vs downtown.

If Hamilton is having trouble competing with Burlington in certain aspects, then clearly Hamilton hasn't done its job consolidating its outward development (sprawled infrastructure and public services) to better afford a lower tax rate to keep those industries and jobs.

And/or... perhaps: the race-to-the-bottom phenomenon in the world of corporate tax rates is horribly unethical because it forces the average consumer to deal with less.

There's no way Hamilton ever could have competed with Burlington. Burlington was a clean slate with a better location. Hamilton carries the baggage of a maintaining a huge amount of ageing infrastructure and has an inadequate tax base for this task, with wealth and development shifted to the surrounding communities. Hamilton lost out on a huge amount of development fees and taxes. You basically have an American style "hollowing out" situation (although Hamilton did "get back" Dundas, Ancaster and Stoney Creek in the last round of amalgamation).

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

Well the majority of the highrises are commie blocks, not most peoples' idea of architecturally sound. Hamilton does have some great architecture though, they're just generally not tall enough to stick out in the skyline.


http://historicalhamilton.com/beasley/landed-banking-and-loan-company-building/


http://lowerhamilton.ca/the-royal-connaught-hotel/


http://historicalhamilton.com/beasley/lister-block/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BankOfMontrealHamilton.JPG


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileigott_Building_Hamilton.JPG

Those are some great buildings! something I wish we had more of here, instead we demolished buildings like this to build parking lots

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't know if your planning on visiting Ottawa and Montreal around the same time, but if so I recommend going for three and visiting Québec City as well. Maybe even take VIA rail between the three. Note that the Québec and Montréal stations are conveniently located in their respective downtowns but Ottawa's is 5 km out where you have to bus (Transitway) or take a taxi downtown.

I'm going to Ottawa for a wedding, not sure if I'll make it to Montreal even, probably just Hull and Gatineau. I'd love to do an Eastern Canada road trip some time, do the whole Quebec - Windsor corridor.

Thanks for the pics of Ste Foy Tone, I forgot all about that area. Looks good!

[flar]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Those are some great buildings! something I wish we had more of here, instead we demolished buildings like this to build parking lots

You could build an even nicer city with all the stuff Hamilton has torn down (and continues to tear down).

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on...bow-a-new-skyline-symbol/article4480246/

This is a really cool picture! the Bow has some girth to it and totally dominates the skyline, but it's a damn cool building, easily the best in Canada IMO. On a comical side note, apparently Steve-O was in town on the weekend and climbed the giant head out front lol.

[Tone]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Thanks for the pics of Ste Foy Tone, I forgot all about that area. Looks good!

Pics? I only posted one.

But yeah, for out of towners, I think it can be easy to forget Ste-Foy wich is propably not that well known and get stock with the image of the classic and unchanged skyline when the new developpement is away from the old DT.

I wonder if the Bow's lowrise building is still part of the plan for the near future.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by flar

There's no way Hamilton ever could have competed with Burlington. Burlington was a clean slate with a better location. Hamilton carries the baggage of a maintaining a huge amount of ageing infrastructure and has an inadequate tax base for this task, with wealth and development shifted to the surrounding communities. Hamilton lost out on a huge amount of development fees and taxes. You basically have an American style "hollowing out" situation (although Hamilton did "get back" Dundas, Ancaster and Stoney Creek in the last round of amalgamation).

And, once again, how does amalgamation play a significant role in this?

You convey that Hamilton had too much infrastructure (and therefore public services such as smaller and more numerous suburban schools, hospitals, an fire stations) for its tiny tax base to financially sustain in the long term: so, I would like to claim again, that Hamilton did not do its job consolidating. It should have committed to sustainable inward urbanism at the onset of the city's economic decay.

Inward infill is the best way to shore up that tax base, aside from raising taxes; and you ideally want to avoid raising taxes.

I wonder how Burlington's debt is coming along...

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

This is a really cool picture! the Bow has some girth to it and totally dominates the skyline, but it's a damn cool building, easily the best in Canada IMO.

The Bow is currently my favourite building in Canada, too.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by Tone

I wonder if the Bow's lowrise building is still part of the plan for the near future.

It is definitely still part of the plan. I'm hoping that now that Telus Sky is going up right across the street, the developers of The Bow South Block will want to go ahead with it, since Telus will bring hundreds of new residents and office workers to the area.

[flar]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

And, once again, how does amalgamation play a significant role in this?

You convey that Hamilton had too much infrastructure (and therefore public services such as smaller and more numerous suburban schools, hospitals, an fire stations) for its tiny tax base to financially sustain in the long term: so, I would like to claim again, that Hamilton did not do its job consolidating. It should have committed to sustainable inward urbanism at the onset of the city's economic decay.

Inward infill is the best way to shore up that tax base, aside from raising taxes; and you ideally want to avoid raising taxes.

I wonder how Burlington's debt is coming along...

I don't follow you...

No one would dispute that Hamilton has been poorly governed. But not all its problems are if its own making. How was the city supposed to know ahead of time that its industrial base would be decimated? They went on building infrastructure appropriate to the ccircumstances at the time. As I said, Hamilton watched its tax base shift next door and lost out on all those development fees while development within the already built up old city ground to a halt and existing businesses closed. Where else in Canada do you see hundreds of empty storefronts lining the main thorofares? Hamilton's decline was pretty steep, and it's all concentrated in the old city. It would have been nice to share the burden a bit, don't you think? Instead, people and businesses were able to flee Hamilton and start fresh across the bay, leaving the old city to rot.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

The Bow is currently my favourite building in Canada, too.

It's up there (pardon the pun) for me too..Great building!

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Tone

Pics? I only posted one.

But yeah, for out of towners, I think it can be easy to forget Ste-Foy wich is propably not that well known and get stock with the image of the classic and unchanged skyline when the new developpement is away from the old DT.

I wonder if the Bow's lowrise building is still part of the plan for the near future.

Saying pics is force of habit on here I guess lol.

The low rise of the Bow was supposed to start within one year of the Bow finishing according to the DP, not sure if there was anything binding in that though.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

And, once again, how does amalgamation play a significant role in this?

You convey that Hamilton had too much infrastructure (and therefore public services such as smaller and more numerous suburban schools, hospitals, an fire stations) for its tiny tax base to financially sustain in the long term: so, I would like to claim again, that Hamilton did not do its job consolidating. It should have committed to sustainable inward urbanism at the onset of the city's economic decay.

Inward infill is the best way to shore up that tax base, aside from raising taxes; and you ideally want to avoid raising taxes.

I wonder how Burlington's debt is coming along...

Businesses want to move to green fields. It might not be better for the city, but greenfield businesses moving in is better than non. Pretty well no one was consolidating back then, and Hamilton's steel mills and other heavy industry were doing good enough at the time. I'd say Hamilton has done pretty well compared to similar cities, the US side is a nightmare, and cities like Windsor and the Niagara region are pretty much stagnant. Today it has a lower unemployment rate than Toronto and a higher average income.