PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[christof]

Originally Posted by el don

Just had a group meeting today with higher ups from Drexel. They started taking about some projects in Drexel's pipeline.

Finally, they said 6 older buildings are going to be renovated including the hideously ugly university crossings building.

Cheers

What are the five other buildings being renovated?

[Insoluble]

Originally Posted by Pennsgrant

The low budget casino market is oversaturated. There are 3 of them , 4 if you want to include Delaware Park going after the same lunch bucket demographic.

The Borgata/Water Club is a shining example of what Market 8 should be striving for. An ultra hip destination casino hotel that is basically sold out every weekend with rates at $500 bucks per night. Theres close to 1,000 rooms between the Borgata/Waterclub.

Due to the location Market 8 is really the only proposal that could pull off a Borgata like experience imo.

I have one word for you: Revel.

The 8th and Market lot is so prominent. What ends up happening there could be a total game changer for a large chunk of Center City, or it could further the decline of Market East. I hear what you're saying about Market 8 being a high end casino vs a Sugar House slots barn, I'm just saying that it's still a huge risk for that location. Even a high end casino could very well be a flop. I would be much happier if Jeff or Penn Medicine wanted to expand on that lot.

[williamphilapa]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

FWIW reading between the lines, a repositioning's upon us. Kmarts tend to close long after the store has "died", so to speak, and it isn't like the Gallery location isn't doing brisk business. (It's probably one of the busiest Kmarts left.) BCF is a bit different--the chain is popular enough that it doesn't actually "die" the way a Kmart does--closure of its stores are historically driven by landlord repositioning.

One could say PREIT is saying what kinds of tenants it doesn't want, but that would expose them to the enormous risk of losing money--No. They're the ones who pulled the plug on the leases. They've got to have something else lined up. It's the only reason for them to.

Kid, did you notice the renders on in your second link?





These renders appear to show a pedestrianized Ludlow Street, and another internal pedestrian mall. They also show redevelopment of the Snellenburg's stump and renovations to their Men's Annex and the Stephen Girard building. Are these newer renders than the SSH ones from a couple of years ago? They don't have quite the same floorplates, but they do have much better...I dunno, a je ne sais quoi...

This is exactly what Philly needs to take it to another level. Everything is perfect about this proposal. Man...I hope this comes to fruition.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by Insoluble

I have one word for you: Revel.

The 8th and Market lot is so prominent. What ends up happening there could be a total game changer for a large chunk of Center City, or it could further the decline of Market East. I hear what you're saying about Market 8 being a high end casino vs a Sugar House slots barn, I'm just saying that it's still a huge risk for that location. Even a high end casino could very well be a flop. I would be much happier if Jeff or Penn Medicine wanted to expand on that lot.

I think throwing Revel out in this discussion is very relevant, but there are some counter points. If Market 8 is chosen and it was built to completion, (A lot of if's.) it would be in a prime location for success. There is a large contingent people that still head to AC directly from Philly, North and West. Market 8 cuts down a lot on cost. Its in a prime location for younger vibrant crowds (Bach Parties), it is also close to the convention center. Also its in center city where there is a lot of money to go around come happy hour.

If its built I think it becomes a financial success. What's intriguing to me is what it can do for the surrounding neighbors, good or bad? I don't know.

[Austinlee]

The design seems a little blocky at first sight; But it's Foster so it will probably look fine. The interior pics look great. But a slide? C'MON!

[Austinlee]

I'm a bit concerned that the skyline might start looking too much like Frankfurt though. Am I the only one who thought of this?

[photoLith]

I'm sorry but that comcast tower is just extremely ugly, it's too blocky and that mast thing is just weird looking.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

I'm a bit concerned that the skyline might start looking too much like Frankfurt though. Am I the only one who thought of this?

Ha ha nope, I thought the same exact thing! It is funny how all of our high rises are clustering in pretty much the same spot. I'm not complaining at all mind you, but it does lead to an interesting skyline that can dramatically change depending upon your vantage point.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Ha ha nope, I thought the same exact thing! It is funny how all of our high rises are clustering in pretty much the same spot. I'm not complaining at all mind you, but it does lead to an interesting skyline that can dramatically change depending upon your vantage point.

Thank you!

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by photoLith

I'm sorry but that comcast tower is just extremely ugly, it's too blocky and that mast thing is just weird looking.

That seems to be everyone's gut reaction, myself included. But check out Lord Norman Foster's collective works on Wikipedia; I can't find a bad one. The man who breathed life into the Swiss RE tower (London Gherkin), The iconic, HCBC "tech" tower in Hong Kong, the amazing Hearst Tower in NY. I bet those looked odd in renderings too.

Focus more on the textures than the massing. I think it's gonna turn out great.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by photoLith

I'm sorry but that comcast tower is just extremely ugly, it's too blocky and that mast thing is just weird looking.

You're just jealous that Philly is getting a supertall and Pitt isn't

[SJPhillyBoy]

Originally Posted by Pennsgrant

McBane Im as skeptical as they come but I found the Goldenberg interview regarding Market 8 to be credible. The location is just too critical to allow a 3 story slot box. I won't use Sugarhouse as a guide to what will happen if Market 8 gets the second license

He has Mohegan Sun(one of the largest in the world) as his gaming operator.

Hersha will be involved with the hotel portion

Deutsche Bank as the creditor..

This is the same Goldenberg that had the Disney hole dug at 8th and Market, could not make the project happen, had to have the city fill in the hole and cost the city something like $20M in the process, correct? I am not as confident as you that the whole project would get built. We could definitely get stuck with just a slots barn and no tower.

[SJPhillyBoy]

http://www.disneyhole.org/thehole.html

[Philly2Queens]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

I think throwing Revel out in this discussion is very relevant, but there are some counter points. If Market 8 is chosen and it was built to completion, (A lot of if's.) it would be in a prime location for success. There is a large contingent people that still head to AC directly from Philly, North and West. Market 8 cuts down a lot on cost. Its in a prime location for younger vibrant crowds (Bach Parties), it is also close to the convention center. Also its in center city where there is a lot of money to go around come happy hour.

If its built I think it becomes a financial success. What's intriguing to me is what it can do for the surrounding neighbors, good or bad? I don't know.

Hey Everyone, long time lurker here. I wanted my first post to be about something relevant, and with Comcast II, the second casino license, and the Gallery redevelopment there is plenty to choose from. As my handle implies, I grew up in the area, went to Temple (and Drexel for a year), and spent my first two years after graduation working in Center City. Life recently took me up to NYC, so I am now an expat like many other posters.

I'll start off by saying I don't support a second casino, primarily because we already have several examples around the state (and indeed the country) of what it will become - an ugly slotbox that tends to cater to the local elderly and degenerate gambling populations - see Sugarhouse and Parx. While I would enjoy watching a building like Market8 rise as much as any one (and losing that hideous surface lot), the notion of building "destination" gambling in Philadelphia - or any other major city - is outdated at this point. The reason for this is simple - fully 40 states now have casinos, with more on the way. This article in the Washington Post sums it up pretty well.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virg...8-56b3-11e3-8304-caf30787c0a9_story.html
The bottom line is that virtually every state is legalizing gambling for the same reasons PA did (easy tax revenues). As this is happening, the novelty of casino gambling rapidly dies off. Ever wonder why Wynn dropped out?

If Philly is going to have another casino license, it might as well be at the stadiums in South Philly. At least there, the chances of picking up some revenue from out-of-staters (fans of other teams) is enhanced. Plus it could lead to other development and perhaps a sort of adult playground experience that no other city could match, at least for the time being, with sports/concerts/gambling/bars/nightlife all so close.

As for Comcast II, I don't have much insight to offer but this - it will create at least 1500 permanent jobs in Center City, and many other tech startups (at least the thinking goes) it will give Philadelphia its first supertall (a badge of distinction) , will be LEED platinum certified (another badge) and it was designed by Norman Foster (a world class Architect). Whats not to like?

As for the Gallery redevelopment, it can't happen soon enough. But it definitely seems like there is enough critical mass to support more high end retail in Center City. The census numbers showing millennials moving to city en mass since 2000 would support that. If it comes with the added bonus of the Girard block also being redeveloped with high end retail, it could be a major turning point in the renaissance of not just Center City, but the entire city.

Does anyone know the timelines on either the Girard Block or Gallery redevelopments? Just curious as to whether we can expect any major announcements anytime soon...

[PhiLaw]

Blatstein and Goldenberg go tit for tat

http://articles.philly.com/2014-01-25/news/46567460_1_bart-blatstein-casino-license-provence

[acenturi]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

That seems to be everyone's gut reaction, myself included. But check out Lord Norman Foster's collective works on Wikipedia; I can't find a bad one. The man who breathed life into the Swiss RE tower (London Gherkin), The iconic, HCBC "tech" tower in Hong Kong, the amazing Hearst Tower in NY. I bet those looked odd in renderings too.

Focus more on the textures than the massing. I think it's gonna turn out great.

Agree. Also, the single render shown in the above posts really doesn't represent an accurate description of the building. Here is a much better set of official illustrations:

http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast-voices/comcast-innovation-technology-center-images

To me, the Function of this building, rather than the design, is its most unique and important aspect - a 5* Hotel atop a vertical Silicone Valley.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by JawKneeQuest

Seeing it like that, we're definetly going to lose MBC and Liberty 1/2 from the Art Museum skyline view. They all line up not so perfectly....

However, the South Street Bridge Skyline View, Is going to be great!



Larger Version Link

The proposal next to the Comcast Center looks too tacky and too cheap!!!!! This makes me really long for the days when the ACC was first proposed. Now had the ACC been built like it should've, then we would've already had a monumental tower instead of a parking lot. I'm hoping it's brought back to life!!!!!!

[Flyers2001]

If Philly is going to have another casino license, it might as well be at the stadiums in South Philly. At least there, the chances of picking up some revenue from out-of-staters (fans of other teams) is enhanced. Plus it could lead to other development and perhaps a sort of adult playground experience that no other city could match, at least for the time being, with sports/concerts/gambling/bars/nightlife all so close.

The same could be said for conventioneers and tourism at 8th and market.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

The same could be said for conventioneers and tourism at 8th and market.

And North Broad - it's practically across the street from the Convention Center's front-facing facade.

[Pennsgrant]

Originally Posted by SJPhillyBoy

This is the same Goldenberg that had the Disney hole dug at 8th and Market, could not make the project happen, had to have the city fill in the hole and cost the city something like $20M in the process, correct? I am not as confident as you that the whole project would get built. We could definitely get stuck with just a slots barn and no tower.

This is a fair point as I have serious issues and hatred for Goldenberg letting that intersection remain stagnant for the past 20-30 years. Part of me doesn't want this small time slouch to benefit from a gaming license but if he doesn't get the license we'll probably have that parking lot at 8th +Market for another 20-30years.

Originally Posted by wanderer34

The proposal next to the Comcast Center looks too tacky and too cheap!!!!!This makes me really long for the days when the ACC was first proposed. Now had the ACC been built like it should've, then we would've already had a monumental tower instead of a parking lot. I'm hoping it's brought back to life!!!!!!

I don't understand this mindset at all. You're bashing reality and waxing poetic about a development that never came close to actually happening, it was basically someones pipe dream. It's wasted energy dude.