Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I don't have a problem with a replacement. The problem I have is adding six more lanes hard on the heels of five new lanes at Port Mann, all while avoiding any kind of commitment for transit expansion. Why if I were the suspicious type I'd almost think that everyone in the Provincial government is a car dealer or owns real estate south of the Fraser.

Adding 6 more lanes just brings the highway to 21st century standards. I do believe 8 lanes is sufficient but 10 lanes would be future proof. We don't want to be revisiting realignment expansion 20 years from now as the region grows. It's going to grow and pressures cannot be reversed by throwing a few more buses on gridlocked roads. Obviously, transit is also important. If buses are not gridlocked on Hwy 99 proper once it is expanded, perhaps they will live up to the "rapid" classification in the BRT ethos. And we all know trucks can't take buses to move goods. Expansion is just enough reason to get goods flowing more efficiently in addition to people.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

Obviously, transit is also important. If buses are not gridlocked on Hwy 99 proper once it is expanded, perhaps they will live up to the "rapid" classification in the BRT ethos.

It would be a relevant argument but aside from the tunnel itself, buses aren't gridlocked right now. In fact, move significantly quicker than general traffic thanks to bus shoulder lanes and queue-jumpers.

[Xerx]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

Adding 6 more lanes just brings the highway to 21st century standards. I do believe 8 lanes is sufficient but 10 lanes would be future proof. We don't want to be revisiting realignment expansion 20 years from now as the region grows. It's going to grow and pressures cannot be reversed by throwing a few more buses on gridlocked roads. Obviously, transit is also important. If buses are not gridlocked on Hwy 99 proper once it is expanded, perhaps they will live up to the "rapid" classification in the BRT ethos. And we all know trucks can't take buses to move goods. Expansion is just enough reason to get goods flowing more efficiently in addition to people.

What about just raising tolls instead of building extra lanes?

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by Xerx

What about just raising tolls instead of building extra lanes?

By doing this...do you mean to discourage single vehicle occupants from using the crossing altogether or increase funding for transit or both?

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

...who have probably never been on a bus in the last 10 years and are therefore ignorant on the issue of transit?

Yes, probably. I agree transit should be part of the solution, but more lanes are badly needed on most metro bridges as well so I don't see it as relevant to this discussion.

It's not either/or.

[officedweller]

http://www.richmond-news.com/new-hwy-99-on-ramp-opens-up-1.797608

New Hwy. 99 on-ramp opens up

Richmond News
January 22, 2014 12:00 AM

A newly extended northbound Steveston Highway off-ramp from Highway 99 was opened to traffic on Monday.

The $1.2 million off-ramp - an interim solution until the tunnel is replaced by a bridge - was designed to create more space for vehicles to line-up and turn left onto Steveston Highway in a bid to alleviate congestion on Highway 99.

http://www.richmond-news.com/new-hwy-99-on-ramp-opens-up-1.797608#sthash.3v7Z6diM.dpuf

Steveston Highway off-ramp extension opens ahead of schedule

by Matthew Hoekstra - Richmond Review

posted Jan 21, 2014 at 9:00 AM— updated Jan 21, 2014 at 4:23 PM

Commuters exiting Highway 99 at Steveston Highway Monday were among the first to drive an extended off-ramp that road crews finished four months ahead of schedule.

B.C. government contractor Jacob Bros. Construction extended the lane to 1,100 metres—nearly doubling its length—using space previously reserved for vehicles accessing a now-demolished tourist information centre.

The $1.2-million project is aimed at improving the flow of traffic exiting the George Massey Tunnel. A government news release called the project "an interim solution" to improve safety and reduce congestion while studies for a new bridge to replace the tunnel continue.

A community information office for the project is now open to the public weekdays in Ironwood Plaza, 203--11662 Steveston Hwy.

Construction on the new bridge is scheduled to begin in 2017.

“We delivered on our promise on the Port Mann Bridge and South Fraser Perimeter Road. We’re now moving ahead on work to fix the next of the Lower Mainland’s traffic bottlenecks, by replacing the Massey Tunnel," said Todd Stone, Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure, in a news release.

According to ministry estimates, 80,000 vehicles use the tunnel each day.

http://www.richmondreview.com/news/241317551.html

[Xerx]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

By doing this...do you mean to discourage single vehicle occupants from using the crossing altogether or increase funding for transit or both?

Both.

[Infrequent Poster]

[B]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

Adding 6 more lanes just brings the highway to 21st century standar[/B

Originally Posted by Cypherus

]ds. I do believe 8 lanes is sufficient but 10 lanes would be future proof. We don't want to be revisiting realignment expansion 20 years from now as the region grows. It's going to grow and pressures cannot be reversed by throwing a few more buses on gridlocked roads. Obviously, transit is also important. If buses are not gridlocked on Hwy 99 proper once it is expanded, perhaps they will live up to the "rapid" classification in the BRT ethos. And we all know trucks can't take buses to move goods. Expansion is just enough reason to get goods flowing more efficiently in addition to people.

Exactly. Nothing has changed (capacity wise) here for 55 years, or over half a century, and I absolutely agree 8 lanes min, 10 lanes for future growth. People who don't agree with this have their heads up their ass. (not wishing to offend anyone, and a reminder this is only my opinion nothing more).

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

Adding 6 more lanes just brings the highway to 21st century standards. I do believe 8 lanes is sufficient but 10 lanes would be future proof. We don't want to be revisiting realignment expansion 20 years from now as the region grows.

A set of railroad tracks would represent the same capacity as a 20 lane freeway. That to me is future proof. People will argue that there's not enough demand for commuter rail, yet we've built a 10 lane bridge (Port Mann), and are planning another 2 bridges with 8 to 10 lanes.

Maybe some kind of mandate reserving 2 lanes for rapid transit only, for the life of these bridges.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by logan5

A set of railroad tracks would represent the same capacity as a 20 lane freeway. That to me is future proof. People will argue that there's not enough demand for commuter rail, yet we've built a 10 lane bridge (Port Mann), and are planning another 2 bridges with 8 to 10 lanes.

Maybe some kind of mandate reserving 2 lanes for rapid transit only, for the life of these bridges.

Best idea so far, IMHO.

[moosejaw]

You could always put rapid transit beneath the bridge like Oresund Bridge in Denmark/Sweden. I think ten lanes is a hedge bet for traffic increases regardless of current traffic patterns history. Four lanes is really enough but making accommodations for an extra lane wont hurt.

I cant see any form of rapid transit there until Broadway and/or South Surrey is completed. No reason why you couldnt do a West Coast Express? Have park and ride lots strategically placed along the BC99 corridor. Terminate the commuter rail in Richmond where commuters can transfer to the Canada Line.

[makr3trkr]

a lot of people in Ladner / Tsawassen don't want a big bridge OR more transit capacity / trains either.

South Delta is famously anti-development ... a lot of them simply don't want any more people, regardless of the mode of transport.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

a lot of people in Ladner / Tsawassen don't want a big bridge OR more transit capacity / trains either.

South Delta is famously anti-development ... a lot of them simply don't want any more people, regardless of the mode of transport.

I live there, and it is absolutely true. Vancouver in general is super nimby, but we take it to a whole other level here.

I've heard exactly what you said from many people here: No bridge expansion or any form of rapid transit, because it spurs development and more people move here, which will ruin the "community feel" (goddamn that word makes me so mad)

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

No bridge expansion or any form of rapid transit, because it spurs development and more people move here, which will ruin the "community feel" (goddamn that word makes me so mad)

Translation "more dirty immigrants will move here".

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Translation "more dirty immigrants will move here".

Yes, that is part of it I'm sure (an "immigrant" there being anyone from outside the 'hood).
However, South Delta has farms, fields, cows, and a refreshingly rural aspect. I bet that that is largely what they fear losing.

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by logan5

A set of railroad tracks would represent the same capacity as a 20 lane freeway. That to me is future proof. People will argue that there's not enough demand for commuter rail, yet we've built a 10 lane bridge (Port Mann), and are planning another 2 bridges with 8 to 10 lanes.

Maybe some kind of mandate reserving 2 lanes for rapid transit only, for the life of these bridges.

I love the idea of commuter rail. A corridor running from White Rock all the way to Richmond Center would be idea for commutators on both sides of the river. I would expect ridership to be high. But the road needs to expand anyway for trucks, since industry merely can't get specific goods to specific places merely by rail. As well, the BRT may just be sufficient for our needs anyway given good ridership.

A better rail solution could have been used for the new PMB. We already see that 8 lanes on the bridge are sufficient and those extra 2 lanes can easily have accommodated a rail line into Cape Horn where it then diverts into Coquitlam town center and the other branches to Brentwood town centre. I know BRT is serving well, but buses don't have the appeal and connectivity that commuter rail does. The HWY 1 corridor could have had a commuter rail all the way out to Chilliwack spuring sustainable development and higher density in the valley. If I can go back to 1955 when Hwy 1 was being widened, this would have been on my transportation plans. Abby, Langley, Surrey, and Chilliwack would have looked much different today as a result of commuter rail.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Translation "more dirty immigrants will move here".

Only partially true. People love the little white enclave we got going on here, but truth is an influx of people of any colour, religion or gender will make people here pissed.

[dharper]

This thread is the closest I could find for this question.

When are they going to finish the on and off ramps on Hwy 99 @ 16th Ave? I don't think they are even working on them anymore.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by dharper

This thread is the closest I could find for this question.

When are they going to finish the on and off ramps on Hwy 99 @ 16th Ave? I don't think they are even working on them anymore.

Phase 1 is completed. Phase 2 will start soon (construction of ramps). To be completed by Fall.

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/highwayprojects/hwy99_at_16_Ave/

[GlassCity]

Anybody know why the 17A ramp onto the 99 northbound was shortened to one lane? Did they give the other lane to the 99?