Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

Exactly.

I think a lot of you people who haven't spent a lot of time outside of Utah or the western U.S. would find it shocking that many people don't know where Utah is, let alone Salt Lake City. A lot times, many people haven't even heard of Salt Lake City.

When I was living in San Antonio last year, a lot of people didn't even know where Utah was. I also dealt with a lot of international tourist down there. To the international tourist, the U.S. to them is New York City, DC, Florida, Chicago, Texas, and California, and just a lot of open space in between.

People in San Antonio can't be that stupid if they can't even point out Utah on a map. Really, I find it hard to believe that in this day and age that even after hosting the 2002 winter Olympics games that people STILL have never heard of Salt Lake.

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

Some people across the U.S. still think everyone here has tons of wives or that we're behind 10-15 years in all aspects of the rest of the country.

Yes, there's always that Mormon bias stereotypes that would think that. But I do agree that I think we are about 10-15 years behind most cities. Lack of a CCH would be a perfect example.

[Comrade]

People are very ignorant to regions they've never been to. We're city nerds, so, I'd like to think we're more aware of the average location. But on the whole, to someone who lives in Ohio, Salt Lake might as well be in California. It's not relevant to them and probably not something they really think much about at all.

I'm sure most people know about Utah (either because of the Jazz, the Mormon Church, skiing, Sundance or the Olympics) - but I'd wager many don't realize Salt Lake City is the capital of it.

They've maybe heard of Salt Lake somewhere, but it's not defined enough in their mind to instantly click with them - and I'm certain most Americans have no idea what Salt Lake even looks like ... except that it has mountains.

But to be fair, that's probably the same with Denver too.

Anyway, Salt Lake is growing up. It's much more known today than twenty years ago and that will only continue to improve. But right now, we're still quite a few steps behind other major U.S. cities - both in impact and skyline.

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds

I never said Salt Lake wasn't a real city. I said it wasn't a major city.

Here's a question: Why is Salt Lake City as important, or major, as Atlanta?

For all the people who keep suggesting Salt Lake is as major as Denver or Boston or Seattle, none have offered up a reason why. Then they dismiss any of the many reasons they're not - regional importance, media market, size, economic impact, sports impact - as trivial.

Salt Lake is a good mid-sized city growing into a major one. But it's totally absurd to suggest we're as major as Seattle or Atlanta - or even Miami.

I'm not saying SLC is as important as Atlanta or Seattle. but SLC is in the price range of other majors like Denver and Phoenix. of course people from around the world know about Florida Texas and Boston. Everyone knows about those cities. But people in the US know about salt lake. yeah there are a lot of negative rumors. But most people who visit here are suprised. Ive been taking photos of celebrities for EcoHideAway at Sundance all weekend. Every visitor Ive taked to has said Salt Lake City is awesome and that they've really enjoyed exploring. mentioning specific places. Two actors from Two and a half Men said that SLC is one of the coolest places they've been to.

In the US we have heavy air traffic, tourism, famous sites, and a high population once realized. And the world knows us from the 2002 Olympics. have we forgotten about that?

A few post ago you said for a major city SLC's skyline —. Phoenix is a major city and has a very similar skyline to Salt Lake's. Im curious as to how you feel about it.

Although we all disagree on things, Im really enjoying this discussion.

[ToysNoiz]

I typed my last response before the other two. forgive me for repeating things that have been said. we both thought the samething.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

I'm not saying SLC is as important as Atlanta or Seattle. but SLC is in the price range of other majors like Denver and Phoenix. of course people from around the world know about Florida Texas and Boston. Everyone knows about those cities. But people in the US know about salt lake. yeah there are a lot of negative rumors. But most people who visit here are suprised. Ive been taking photos of celebrities for EcoHideAway at Sundance all weekend. Every visitor Ive taked to has said Salt Lake City is awesome and that they've really enjoyed exploring. mentioning specific places. Two actors from Two and a half Men said that SLC is one of the coolest places they've been to.

In the US we have heavy air traffic, tourism, famous sites, and a high population once realized. And the world knows us from the 2002 Olympics. have we forgotten about that?

A few post ago you said for a major city SLC's skyline —. Phoenix is a major city and has a very similar skyline to Salt Lake's. Im curious as to how you feel about it.

Although we all disagree on things, Im really enjoying this discussion.

I think Phoenix's skyline is disappointing for a city its size. I don't think it's comparable to Salt Lake's - especially when you combine its downtown and midtown skylines.

Look, there is no doubt that Salt Lake has some attributes of a major city. But a lot of decent sized cities have that, too. It doesn't make it major.

As I've said a couple times already in this thread: The gap between Salt Lake & Denver is about as wide as the gap between Boise and Salt Lake. I doubt anyone here would suggest Boise is on Salt Lake's level.

We're not on Denver's. Not yet. Maybe in 20 years - but not now.

[SLC Projects]

Agreed. We are no where near on the same level as Denver.

Denver has a bigger skyline with taller buildings, ours is small.
The state of Colorado has about 5-6 million people while we have half of that at close to 3 mill.
Denver has all five major sports teams, we have two.
Denver will be playing in the Super Bowl, we don't even have a NFL team.
Denver wins their championships, we choke ours.
Denver has a CCH, we don't.......yet.

Well at least we had the 2002 winter games.

Not sure if I see Salt Lake becoming like Denver in 20 years. Sure we should have a CCH by then as long as our leaders up on the hill don't f$$k it up. We should have more skyscrapers by then, heck we should have at least one more major sports team by then, either MLB or NHL, NFL I don't see us ever having a team here.
But I don't see us ever catching up to Denver. If we do become like 2014's Denver in say 2034, what will Denver look like in 2034?

[delts145]

It's true there are pockets that are pretty stupid as to the location of Salt Lake City, or pretty much anywhere other than New York or California. That's not a problem that Salt Lake is anywhere near to being alone on. However, you have to be pretty careful about over generalizing people's ignorance of Salt Lake or some of it's famous attributes. Here's a major reason why. There is not a day that doesn't go by where tens of millions of people in many of No. Americas largest markets are not bombarded by probably what are considered some of the best television advertising in the industry. Salt Lake City and the convenience of it's airport, and the proximity of Park City, Park City, Park City is a CONSTANT drumbeat. The sophistication and allure of the Park City ads are waaay ahead of anything else coming out these past few years from Tahoe, Colorado, Alberta, or British Columbia. Also, the amount of airtime Park City is buying is way above it's competitors in many of the North American major markets. Seriously, you would almost think sometimes that the Park City area is the only ski area in North America worth considering. Again, the ads are very attractive and clever on every level. Your not just seeing the typical ad of the typical beautiful mountain scenery that's all dreamy blah, blah, blah.

These past few weeks I've spent a lot of time on the sets of major television series and commercials such as Old Navy and ADT (home security) . Invariably, you talk with dozens of people from all over the U.S. and indeed the world. Everywhere, from every Continent and State people are very aware of the names Utah, Salt Lake City/skiing and Park City. Often with the less informed it's a matter of connecting the dots. People instantly will know of Utah as the Mormon Church, incredible skiing, pockets of polygamy, and jaw dropping scenery. They will also be very aware of the nameplate Salt Lake City and it's association with skiing. Often the average person will not connect Salt Lake City as the capital of Utah, or being located in the State of Utah. However, this is a pretty common issue with most cities and states. Sometimes I wonder why people are so uninformed when it comes to basic geography.

Bottom line, I think many of you who are living along the Wasatch can't expect to comprehend immediately the amount of heavy advertising that Utah is placing regarding it's Tourism outside of the Intermountain market. In the warmer months it's all about the abundance of unique scenery and it's National Parks, Rec Areas and Monuments. In the winter, Park City rules the airwaves in many of the major markets. Even the ignorant or non skiers can't escape the onslaught of Salt Lake City or Utah advertising.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds

As I've said a couple times already in this thread: The gap between Salt Lake & Denver is about as wide as the gap between Boise and Salt Lake. I doubt anyone here would suggest Boise is on Salt Lake's level.

We're not on Denver's. Not yet. Maybe in 20 years - but not now.

Not sure exactly how you're measuring the gap, but the population gap between Metro CSA Denver and Salt Lake City is not nearly as wide as the gap between CSA Salt Lake City and Boise. Greater SLC is roughly four times the size of Greater Boise. Just by pop. size alone greater Denver would have to have roughly 12 million people to equal the size of the gap of population between Salt Lake City and Boise. Greater Denver has roughly 3.1 million people give or take 100,000, and is by no means in the same ballpark population as a better part of CSA L.A. or bigger than CSA Chicago. By few if any measures are the gaps similarly comparable, whether by such disparate measures as airport traffic, skiable acreage, manufacturing output or performing arts seats and venues.

I agree Comrade with pretty much every thing else you and many others have said. I do think different cities are ahead of others in different areas. For example, in the field of the performing arts Salt Lake City's Metro is often playing way above it's weight class. Often it is further ahead in this category than many metros that have been traditionally larger. Projects, you commented that major league sports championships in Denver come far more often than in Salt Lake City. Yet you know full well that major league team for team, Salt Lake City has experienced far more success with regional and conference championships over the long haul with regard to it's NBA and MLS franchises. Sure, SLC doesn't have an NFL, MLB or NHL franchise yet, but they will come.

The three major adjoining metros of the Wasatch have always exceeded growth predictions. Particularly with the Southern Metro, I think we're going to see some of the most phenomenal growth in the nation. Maybe Greater Denver and Salt Lake will continue at roughly the same pace, and Denver will be the same size as present day Atlanta in 20 years and Salt Lake City will be the size of present Denver today. One thing for sure is that many of todays larger than SLC Metros will be passed by The Wasatch Front, as they slow, stagnate, or even lose population, while The Wasatch continues it's accelerated growth. A population of 3-plus million is really not that far off for the Greater Wasatch Front.

Summary: This is Not Your Father’s Utah 2000-2010 @
http://le.utah.gov/lrgc/briefings/2012.PopulationBagelsBriefingsPP.pdf

Third fastest growing state in nation by percent and 13th fastest growing state by number
Trend of increasing urbanization along Wasatch Front (and Back) continues
Washington County a significant exception
Utah's fastest growing cities reflect the rapid growth of northern Utah and southwestern Salt Lake counties
Utah's rapid increase of Hispanics is significantly changing state ethnic make-up
Utah is experiencing two age-related trends that will significantly affect the state over the next few decades:
Slowing growth rates of school-age population
Increasing growth rates of 65 and older population

[RosePark]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

Exactly.
Some people across the U.S. still think everyone here has tons of wives or that we're behind 10-15 years in all aspects of the rest of the country.

When I was living in San Antonio last year, a lot of people didn't even know where Utah was.

That speaks more to the ignorance and stupidity of people in Texas than disparaging Utah in any way.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by RosePark

That speaks more to the ignorance and stupidity of people in Texas than disparaging Utah in any way.

Agree RosePark, but it also is not unique to Texas. I've talked with high school students or 20 something's everywhere, who can't even place the location of the nation's capitol. Many people wonder what language Italians speak or what country Paris, (France) is located in. Here in Los Angeles I'm often amazed at how ignorant OC residents are of many locations that I thought were world renowned in Central Los Angeles.

[Dallas Snob]

I'm having a difficult time understanding WHY the all out enthusiasm to make Salt Lake like everything else. Salt Lake City in my estimation is one of the most beautiful cities on earth...and it is that way because of so many factors including the Mormon church, the scenery, the blah, blah, blah. But it is a sum of all people and cultures that live there, and ideas, and leadership and marketing. The world doesn't need another New York, LA or Dallas...they need a Salt Lake City. I Live in Dallas now, and we have absolutely no preoccupation with being something else. We are DALLAS. As the 4th largest MSA in the U.S., We want our city to be the best it can, but we also want it to have it's own personality. Salt Lake City will grow. It has already blossomed into a phenomenal place to live and work and I would live there again in a HEARTBEAT! I have lived in Boston, San Francisco, Phoenix, Seattle, New York and Dallas. They all are wonderful places. Salt Lake has everything to offer that they do...and then some. Don't rush to copy everyone else. Be unique. Be yourself. And stop comparing yourself to other cities. Who gives a damn? It's like comparing apples and oranges. They are both round but other than that there are no similarities...but they both are delicious! For a city its size, Salt Lake has some incredible high buildings, a great dense downtown, and it's just attractive to look at. It has a lot of development going on at the same time. Become part of the process instead of dreaming about it. And how many sport teams or tourists a city has seems like a subjective and somewhat strange way of judging it's relevance and importance. Might as well use how many cats and public toilets for your mreasurement. It's not any one thing...but the sum of all. Salt Lake is INCREDIBLE! So stop the whining and accept it already. GEEZ!

[Lilljemalm]

I'm with Dallas Snob on this one. I've lived in SLC and Denver, Seattle, Atlanta and Phoenix. Each city is different. I admit to enjoying SLC and Seattle the most and Atlanta and Denver the least. SLC and Seattle have their own personalities, which is something I like. SLC should build on that and not try to mimic Denver. Even though Denver offers a lot of professional sports, parks, etc., when it comes down to it, is a very generic US city - if you've been there, you've essentially been to Cincinnati, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Milwaukee... Tourists don't go there to see the city; they only get off of a plane and pick up their rental car there to drive to the mountains. Looking at census figures, the Wasatch Front is only about 5 to 7 years behind metro Denver. One thing I found interesting about living in Denver is that gov't leaders there were always comparing themselves to both SLC and Kansas City and wanting to copy them.
SLC does not advertise itself very well. Phoenix is a very good example of advertising itself. It attracts visitors from all over (I'm not just referring to snowbirds). When I've spoken with visitors there, however, they are generally disappointed in the city. They come here hoping for something more than golf and they all think that the scenic sites (Sedona and Grand Canyon) are closer than they are. European visitors I talk to show the most disappointment.
Those same Europeans are also aware of SLC, but don't know much about it other than it hosted the 2002 games. They often think it's bigger than it is. After I talk with them, they wish they had gone there instead of to Phx. It's just a case of Phx adverstising itself better.

[UV4EVER]

I've been looking into the Devon Tower in OKC recently and I really like it! It got me thinking, who are downtown Salt Lake's largest employers? How many employees do they have and how much square feet do they take up? Devon cost about $700M and houses about 2,000 employees in 1.8M square feet of space. I'm just thinking, who would be on the list to fill up that much space in SLC? I know Goldman Sachs is quickly climbing that list but who else might be up there?

[Plaid Shirts]

2026 Winter Olympics update

I've heard through a source and good friend that the USOC will be making an announcement/update this spring concerning the United States and the 2026 Olympics. I know this is far away and the official announcement isn't until 2019, but the 2026 winter Olympics are starting to get cities interest. I did some reading and some research, and talked to a couple of people, and from what I've heard and read, here are the cities that are considering bids from the U.S.:

Bozeman
Salt Lake City
Reno-Lake Tahoe
Boston/New England
Denver
Sacramento-Squaw Valley
Anchorage

Personally I think Denver or Boston/New England has the best chance of getting them if they do decide to officially bid.

Obviously the U.S. official winner and representative will have to bid and go up against the international cities that will try and win them. Again, from what I've read, heard, and researched, here are the international cities considering bids:

Toronto or Quebec (from Canada)
Munich
Helsinki
Zurich or St. Moritz (from Switzerland)
Ostersund or Stockholm (from Sweden)
Nice
Barcelona or Zaragoza (from Spain)


With that, what do you guys think SLC's chances really are? Also what do you think SLC will be like around 2026? And what improvements do you think need to be made between now and 2026 if they are to host the games again?

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by UV4EVER

I've been looking into the Devon Tower in OKC recently and I really like it! It got me thinking, who are downtown Salt Lake's largest employers? How many employees do they have and how much square feet do they take up? Devon cost about $700M and houses about 2,000 employees in 1.8M square feet of space. I'm just thinking, who would be on the list to fill up that much space in SLC? I know Goldman Sachs is quickly climbing that list but who else might be up there?

LDS Church Office: out grown their building.
Zion's Bank: I think a time will come that they will out grow their 18-story building.
WTCU: again, a time will come they will out grow the 19- story Eagle Gate Plaza building.
Discover Card/ American Express: both call centers are in either Taylorsville or West Valley and both call centers house 1000's of workers. Would be awesome if one of them would move to downtown.

[jimmycdii]

So there were some warehouse-like buildings on 600 S, just as you get off the freeway and on the south side of the street. I drove by Saturday night… and they were all demolished. A bunch of backhoes and what not were still on the site. Anyone know what is going on there? Some cool development perhaps?

Sorry if we've already talked about this; I didn't see it, but sometimes the conversation moves quickly and I'll miss posts.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by jimmycdii

So there were some warehouse-like buildings on 600 S, just as you get off the freeway and on the south side of the street. I drove by Saturday night… and they were all demolished. A bunch of backhoes and what not were still on the site. Anyone know what is going on there? Some cool development perhaps?

Sorry if we've already talked about this; I didn't see it, but sometimes the conversation moves quickly and I'll miss posts.

I believe it's some kind of a hotel. Don't know any more then that.

[UTPlanner]

There are no interesting development plans on the 600 South site as of yet. It is owned by a company that develops hotels but they haven't stated specifically what their plans are. The buildings are being torn down because they were deemed unsafe and hazardous.

Also, I would be interested to know whether or not the LDS Church has outgrown their current offices. The IT Dept. moved down to Riverton, Archives moved into their building across the street and the Church now occupies the West Office Building on North Temple. I would be curious to hear from somebody who actually works there.

[Makid]

My source with information at the LDS Church Office Building has retired. So this information may be a little old (less than a year), The LDS Church Office Building is over capacity.

They have wanted to bring more employees to a central location but haven't been able to do that due to a space issue. They have space in multiple locations throughout downtown SLC as well as off-site offices throughout the area.

There were plans in the works a few years ago that would have created a COB 2. It was slated to be approximately 25 stories and roughly 550,000 sq ft. It was to coincide with a possible reclad of parts of the current COB tower.

The above plan was scrapped as it only addressed the current needs and didn't anticipate any further growth in employment and volunteers.

Last that my source had heard was that they were in the process of redetermining their needs to build a new building with at least a 10 year growth allowance above their current needs.

If this is still in progress, we may hear about this or updates to this hopefully this year as the needs are very pressing in the building.

[jimmycdii]

Thanks for the info on the 600 S thing.

Also, my dad works in the COB. I'll probably see him over the coming weekend and I'll ask him if he knows anything.