General Updates and News

[teddifax]

Ahhh, I fondly remember the old electric trolleys - NOT!!! They have become romanticized in distant memory but they weren't that great in real life. The overhead wires were an eyesore, especially on major turns. The one at the corner of SGR and Barrington was so bad with the thick black wires you could barely see the sky. The other thing working against them was not just the technology itself but our weather. I don't know how many times the poor driver had to get out and have to get off the bus and go to the rear of it and have to manually re-crank the "connector poles" back up to attach to the power line so the bus could start up again. In winter stormy weather this happened constantly. I know this was over 40 years ago and there is new technology, but the over head wires were bad. I think a hybrid bus would be a better alternative.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by teddifax

Ahhh, I fondly remember the old electric trolleys - NOT!!! They have become romanticized in distant memory but they weren't that great in real life. The overhead wires were an eyesore, especially on major turns. The one at the corner of SGR and Barrington was so bad with the thick black wires you could barely see the sky. The other thing working against them was not just the technology itself but our weather. I don't know how many times the poor driver had to get out and have to get off the bus and go to the rear of it and have to manually re-crank the "connector poles" back up to attach to the power line so the bus could start up again. In winter stormy weather this happened constantly. I know this was over 40 years ago and there is new technology, but the over head wires were bad. I think a hybrid bus would be a better alternative.

I have to agree, hybrid or all-electric battery-powered buses (it is already being done elsewhere) seems like the way to go. Hybrid and all-electric would allow some short stretches to be underground as Right of Ways (similar to subways but with buses). Although far-fetched, I can imagine a route under the harbour just for hybrid or all electric buses (possibly it could be narrow enough for just one lane but with passing lanes in between to allow two way traffic).

[Keith P.]

Metro Transit already has some hybrid buses bit I don't know if they can run only on battery power.

[someone123]

The modern trolleybuses here in Vancouver are nice but I understand how they might be a marginal investment. They need overheads and they do pop off occasionally, although that happens infrequently and I think there is a system that allows the poles to automatically re-attach to the line (not sure how well it works). They have limited battery power so they can travel short distances without overhead power.

I think a better addition would be something similar to the Olympic Line, which was Bombardier Flexity streetcars that ran along an old rail line. The cost of upgrading the line was only $8.5M for 1.8 km. The line ran for 2 months with about 10,000 boardings per day and had zero issues. I think some of Toronto's new streetcars are similar. The cost is reasonable and they're much nicer than buses.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I have to agree, hybrid or all-electric battery-powered buses (it is already being done elsewhere) seems like the way to go. Hybrid and all-electric would allow some short stretches to be underground as Right of Ways (similar to subways but with buses). Although far-fetched, I can imagine a route under the harbour just for hybrid or all electric buses (possibly it could be narrow enough for just one lane but with passing lanes in between to allow two way traffic).

Yes, I also think Hybrid buses make the most sense.

I think if Halifax added *three* simple public/mass transit elements to our current system, would make a HUGE difference.

(1) Hybrid buses for some downtown Halifax routes
(2) A dedicated bus route that runs around the Harbour (using hybrid buses perhaps, but not necessarily).
(3) Light commuter rail, along the lines of the one currently being considered (runs along CN rail from Windsor Junction to downtown).

=====

If light rail is not seen as viable, then I strong support the proposals for a "Dedicated Bus Lane" recommended by the HRM Economic Summit Committee in 2004:

2004 HRM Economic Summit Committee Recommendations

[...]

Improving the Commuting Experience

18. Dedicated Bus Lane on CN right of way to Dockyard:

• Starting at Windsor Junction proposed RTC stretches along Rocky Lake Rd through Bedford along Bedford Basin and through Rockingham yard.
• At south end of Rockingham yard (Fairview) right of way branches past Ceres Container Pier, Seaview Park and Pier 9 to exit south of HMC Halifax Dockyard. Permits an exit from right of way at site of new sewage treatment plant and access to Cogswell ex change.

19. Dedicated Bus Lane on CN right of way to Via Station

• In CN rail cut, build a two-lane rubber-tired roadway with rails embedded in one lane
• HRM’s 2003 study indicates cost of approx. $51 million
• Single direction express bus service during peak periods without train interference
• Could permit two-way truck access, co-coordinating rail and traffic compatibility with CN

Study: http://halifaxchamber.com/files/01/58/Economic_Summit_Recommendations.pdf

[Phalanx]

Read this article today, and thought of the current discussion on transit downtown:

Wirelessly charged electric buses set for Milton Keynes

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Read this article today, and thought of the current discussion on transit downtown:

Wirelessly charged electric buses set for Milton Keynes

Is anything like this being discussed?

Any "big" ideas? Like LRT? Or even common sense ones, like hybrid buses?

Or is it really just a re-think about bus routing?

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Is anything like this being discussed?

Any "big" ideas? Like LRT? Or even common sense ones, like hybrid buses?

Or is it really just a re-think about bus routing?

Rail makes sense - the way to speed up buses is dedicated right of way. since we have rail already on most of those major corridors, it makes the most sense to re-use it.

For Halifax, a sensible solution is probably something like a bombardier Talent. They are Diesel Electric ("hybrid"), dont rely on overhead electric, and are in use in Ottawa (I believe they will be selling theirs as the line is being electrified, so we could even get a deal) I would re-lay the tack along Barrington and terminate at Purdys wharf. I'd put stops at HM Dockyard, Shipyard, Affricville, MSVU, Kearney Lake, Princes Lodge, mill cove, and end at sunnyside.

In Dartmouth, a lrt line on the waterfront would be good, connecting to both ferry stops - Eastern Passage, Shearwater, woodside, NSCC, Aderney, Dartmouth North, Wright, And end at Akerly.

then run Buses out from those locations to serve the local Neighborhoods.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

The modern trolleybuses here in Vancouver are nice but I understand how they might be a marginal investment. They need overheads and they do pop off occasionally, although that happens infrequently and I think there is a system that allows the poles to automatically re-attach to the line (not sure how well it works). They have limited battery power so they can travel short distances without overhead power.

I think a better addition would be something similar to the Olympic Line, which was Bombardier Flexity streetcars that ran along an old rail line. The cost of upgrading the line was only $8.5M for 1.8 km. The line ran for 2 months with about 10,000 boardings per day and had zero issues. I think some of Toronto's new streetcars are similar. The cost is reasonable and they're much nicer than buses.

So Fuel Cell buses have not been successful in BC?

http://www.ballard.com/fuel-cell-applications/bus.aspx

The initial comment had to do with air quality in the downtown, and this is where fuel cell technology shines.

C.
Improved Air Quality
Zero-emission fuel cell buses improve general air quality by reducing oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and particulate
matter (PM). NOx and PM are dangerous emissions that are closely associated with respiratory problems.

Source:
http://www.ballard.com/files/PDF/Bus/Bus_Benefits_FCvelocity.pdf

The technology is still being studied for cars, and would/will be difficult to deploy to the mass market due to the current lack of infrastructure to deal with hydrogen as everyman's fuel, but for commercial uses such as transit, where all servicing and fueling is done at their own facility it appears to be much more practical. There is also the issue that hydrogen gas doesn't exist in a natural state and thus must be manufactured (which requires energy), but I have seen cases where solar energy has been used as an energy source to manufacture hydrogen fuel, thereby making it a very clean process overall.

I haven't studied the use in BC, but I thought somebody living locally with an interest in transit might have heard the "buzz" as to whether it has been viable or not due to cost or other unforeseen issues.

Hybrid technology is OK, but as Keith mentioned, not all hydrogen vehicles have the ability to run on electric-only. In reality it is just a stepping stone to better technology.

Yeah, the old overhead-wire trolleys were interesting to say the least and troublesome to say the worst. I was just thinking of how well the electric bus system in SF appeared to work when I was there, but then they don't have winter conditions to contend with as we do.

Personally, I favour instituting rail service to cover the major routes with buses only in place to fill in the gaps on shorter runs.

[xanaxanax]

Whats the status of the empty land on Gottingen where the sobeys used to be across from the North Memorial Public Library. Its where the Gottingen Terrace project was going to go. I was talking to someone that I know very well that wants to build independent movie theater to cater to the film community comparable in size to the oxford but a little larger but for more of a niche crowd of film lovers and wants to build a Roller Rink on it and needs 20,000 sq feet of space to do so. The individual has no idea how to acquire the land in that spot for it and ideally would like to work with the Terrace project to have the condos built on top of and beside the Roller Rink and movie theater but has no idea how to contact them and isn't sure if they would be cooperative in a joint development of the land. Gottingen is the only street in the city they are interested in building these facilities its either there or nowhere at the moment.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by xanaxanax

The individual has no idea how to acquire the land in that spot for it and ideally would like to work with the Terrace project to have the condos built on top of and beside the Roller Rink and movie theater but has no idea how to contact them and isn't sure if they would be cooperative in a joint development of the land.

http://www.rhad.ca/GottingenTerrace/contact.html

I think we have a thread for Gottingen Terrace. I'd be interested to know what the status of that development is.

[xanaxanax]

Originally Posted by someone123

http://www.rhad.ca/GottingenTerrace/contact.html

I think we have a thread for Gottingen Terrace. I'd be interested to know what the status of that development is.

The contact email bounced back, this seem to be a website for the 2009 version of the development

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by xanaxanax

...The individual has no idea how to acquire the land in that spot for it and ideally would like to work with the Terrace project to have the condos built on top of and beside the Roller Rink and movie theater but has no idea how to contact them ....

Maybe do a little Google sleuthing on the Creighton Gerrish Development Association. Even if the association is not currently functioning, the individuals involved likely have day jobs at which they can be reached. I'm not sure what the structure was, but if it was a non-profit with a board, it's likely that board members were/are active on other boards. People who get involved in the community at that level tend to be involved in more than one avenue.

Good luck.

Theatre + roller rink + housing is not a combo I would have naturally put together. It may be that if changes to non-profit housing funding rules resulted in less cash available to the association, that a partnership with a private developer, such as your friend with the theatre and roller rink cash, might prove beneficial.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by teddifax

Ahhh, I fondly remember the old electric trolleys - NOT!!! They have become romanticized in distant memory but they weren't that great in real life. The overhead wires were an eyesore, especially on major turns. The one at the corner of SGR and Barrington was so bad with the thick black wires you could barely see the sky.

I too fondly remember Halifax's trolleys. Really. Yes, poles sometimes slipped off the overhead, an occupational hazard on all such systems. But Halifax's sharp turns and steep hills posed a special challenge. I remember the intersection of SGR and Barrington very well: my dad's office was in the Capitol Theatre building, and I had a bird's-eye view of the intersection from his window. It was always fun to watch the trolleycoaches (to Nova Scotia Light and Power they were always trolleycoaches) as they rounded the corner to see if the pole would slip off and the operator (they were never drivers, always "operators") dash out to replace it.

Here's a pic of the place and the problem. (A bit overstated, I think, to say you couldn't see the sky!)



Source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/defau..._main_image/articles/TrolleyCoaches2.jpg

Despite that, these coaches were clean, without exhaust, and NSLP maintained them immaculately inside and out. The drivers -- er, operators -- were always dressed in carefully pressed navy blue uniforms, complete with officer's cap. And, best of all, the coaches were almost silent. Would I trade a salt-encrusted, undersized Metro Transit diesel bus for an electric trolleycoach today? In a heartbeat.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

I too fondly remember Halifax's trolleys. Really. Yes, poles sometimes slipped off the overhead, an occupational hazard on all such systems. But Halifax's sharp turns and steep hills posed a special challenge. I remember the intersection of SGR and Barrington very well: my dad's office was in the Capitol Theatre building, and I had a bird's-eye view of the intersection from his window. It was always fun to watch the trolleycoaches (to Nova Scotia Light and Power they were always trolleycoaches) as they rounded the corner to see if the pole would slip off and the operator (they were never drivers, always "operators") dash out to replace it.

Here's a pic of the place and the problem. (A bit overstated, I think, to say you couldn't see the sky!)



Source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/defau..._main_image/articles/TrolleyCoaches2.jpg

Despite that, these coaches were clean, without exhaust, and NSLP maintained them immaculately inside and out. The drivers -- er, operators -- were always dressed in carefully pressed navy blue uniforms, complete with officer's cap. And, best of all, the coaches were almost silent. Would I trade a salt-encrusted, undersized Metro Transit diesel bus for an electric trolleycoach today? In a heartbeat.

Nice pic! Thanks for posting that. Great info.

[MPotter]

Interesting clip from CBC this morning.

"Developers say HRM By Design not working- Danny Chedrawe and Jim Spatz say the development plan is good in theory, but in practise it binds developers with red tape."

http://www.cbc.ca/informationmorningns/2014/01/15/developers-say-hrm-by-design-not-working/

[pblaauw]

Committee recommends zebra stripes for crosswalks

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by MPotter

Interesting clip from CBC this morning.

"Developers say HRM By Design not working- Danny Chedrawe and Jim Spatz say the development plan is good in theory, but in practise it binds developers with red tape."

http://www.cbc.ca/informationmorningns/2014/01/15/developers-say-hrm-by-design-not-working/

Jim Spatz seems to dislike HRMbyDesign mostly because he doesn't LIKE the massing rules. Danny's complaint sounded much more reasonable: based on difficulties translating the rules to smaller-scale works.

[S-Man]

Good day, Haligonians -

I sometimes peruse this thread from Ottawa, and saw my city referenced in regard to transit options.

Hybrid buses seem like a no-brainer, but Ottawa has had some trouble with them - mainly, that they didn't achieve the fuel efficiency in real-world scenarios that was promised before they were bought. Now, this is going back a couple of years, so maybe there are better models out there now.

Basically, the city was left in the situation of deciding whether to sell off/scrap its hybrid fleet, or pay for upgrades it hadn't anticipated.

I was recently in Cleveland, and they have an interesting diesel-electric bus system for their Hospital Line, which runs downtown. The drive system is basically like a huge Chevy Volt, with a small diesel generator providing power to a much more torquey electric drive motor, which then propels the bus.

The smaller-then-normal diesel doesn't rev, it just idles as it generates juice, while the smooth electric motor and single-speed transmission drives the bus. And this one was articulated, so it held a number of people.

As for the Bombardier diesel-electric train set we have (which is being upgraded to new engines/cars), it for the most part has been an economical, reliable system that utilized existing (unused) heavy rail tracks. It was made fun of at first, as people doubted the pilot project, but it turned out to surpass expectations and passenger numbers.

If it is put on a line connecting major destinations or transfer points, I don't see why a system like that wouldn't work elsewhere.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by S-Man

.
.
I was recently in Cleveland, and they have an interesting diesel-electric bus system for their Hospital Line, which runs downtown. The drive system is basically like a huge Chevy Volt, with a small diesel generator providing power to a much more torquey electric drive motor, which then propels the bus.

The smaller-then-normal diesel doesn't rev, it just idles as it generates juice, while the smooth electric motor and single-speed transmission drives the bus. And this one was articulated, so it held a number of people.
.
.

Halifax Metro Transit has a couple of hybrid buses - http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/HybridBuses.html

I like the electric bus system with a diesel generator that you described. Can these be charged overnight (when not in use) so that they can operate for some distance before requiring the diesel generator to kick in? If they can, then possibly a large percentage of the miles travelled could be from an overnight charge and there might be opportunities to do quick charges during the day (for example when a bus is waiting at a terminal it could use the inductive charging system previously posted by Phalanx - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25621426).