Future Canadian Skylines

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by franktko

Those white towers are actually in a location zoned 65 meter tall max - this entire project is under public hearings because they want to go to 120 meters... We have nimbys that will certainly try to disrupt this project during the hearings.

That's too bad. Montreal does have lots of in fill potential in its downtown, but eventually Montreal will need to go taller if it continues to grow and prosper. That there's an issue with 120m is a bit shocking.

Montreal is still a big city by world standards, but the yard sticks keep moving all the time. I wonder if people around the world will consider Montreal a big city 40 years from now? Probably not.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

You size queen.

If more of the island were to develop at the density that's currently under construction and being proposed in the core, you'd be one of the only people still complaining.

The scale of these buildings is fine. With a real estate market less flooded, more private developers may propose more towers that are also relatively modest in density. Ideally we want Montréal to achieve a healthy pace of building construction in the long-term, despite boom and bust cycles of associated industries and markets, and considering the new loan rules Ottawa has been introducing across the board.

These Montréal proposals are certainly not disrespectful to "the skyscraper."

(aka: the SSP god?)

Oh my god, isaidso, we just started a religion.

I do like these designs, but the more I travel around the world the smaller Montreal feels. Many aren't comfortable with high density or tall buildings, but in the modern world both of these things are associated with 'big city'. In 1980 there was no disputing that Montreal felt like a big city. When I went back in 2000, it felt strangely 'small'.

At the rate the world's cities are developing, Montreal will end up feeling many notches down from the Chicagos and Melbournes of this world. The yard stick of what we associate with 'big city' moves all the time and Montreal isn't moving with that yard stick. Montrealers can do what they want, but size does matter.

And before people start going on about how different and Euro Montreal is, Paris, London, Milan, Moscow, Rotterdam, Warsaw, Frankfurt, etc. have all embraced height. Montreal is going in the opposite direction. Besides, there's little European about Montreal. It's north American to the core and always has been. Montrealers like to think of themselves as very European, but it's an attempt to distance oneself from anglo-America more than anything else.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I do like these designs, but the more I travel around the world the smaller Montreal feels. Many aren't comfortable with high density or tall buildings, but in the modern world both of these things are associated with 'big city'. In 1980 there was no disputing that Montreal felt like a big city. When I went back in 2000, it felt strangely 'small'.

At the rate the world's cities are developing, Montreal will end up feeling many notches down from the Chicagos and Melbournes of this world. The yard stick of what we associate with 'big city' moves all the time and Montreal isn't moving with that yard stick. Montrealers can do what they want, but size does matter.

And before people start going on about how different and Euro Montreal is, Paris, London, Milan, Moscow, Rotterdam, Warsaw, Frankfurt, etc. have all embraced height. Montreal is going in the opposite direction. Besides, there's little European about Montreal. It's north American to the core and always has been. Montrealers like to think of themselves as very European, but it's an attempt to distance oneself from anglo-America more than anything else.

I'm still puzzled by the fact that you're coming up with this at the very moment when Montreal experiences a revival in highrises construction. It feels a bit strange to me that you would decide that Montreal is now turning its back on skyscrapers just when we're building more than ever. Unless, of course, a 50 or 40 storeys condo tower doesn't qualify anymore for you.

If Montréal keeps building towers in the average range of 120 meters, I'm not too worry that it will look small in 20 years. In any case, we do have tons of land to fill in the downtown core and Montreal will look much bigger and denser if we wisely fill those spaces with quality mid and highrises than if we let them be and build only a few much taller buildings. Al that being said, I can honnestly understand how someone from Toronto would find that Montreal feels "smaller". It's not really because Montreal got smaller, but rather because Toronto grew so much in the last decade than the contrast is noticeable. This will not reverse, so you might as well get use to it. Montrealers sure did.

Also, Montrealers don't flatter themselves thinking that they are "oh so european". It's a cliche used repeatedly by travel journalists, mainly from the States. it's not our fault if they lack imagination.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I do like these designs, but the more I travel around the world the smaller Montreal feels. Many aren't comfortable with high density or tall buildings, but in the modern world both of these things are associated with 'big city'. In 1980 there was no disputing that Montreal felt like a big city. When I went back in 2000, it felt strangely 'small'.

At the rate the world's cities are developing, Montreal will end up feeling many notches down from the Chicagos and Melbournes of this world.

You have a very subjective conveyance. Why do your feelings matter so much to the citybuilding process that aims for economic and environmental sustainability?

Everything is relative; so yes, by travelling around the world you may quickly realise that Montréal's highrise infrastructure is modest by comparison. And I say: so what? Why are having the tallest buildings in the world an asset?

Originally Posted by isaidso

The yard stick of what we associate with 'big city' moves all the time and Montreal isn't moving with that yard stick. Montrealers can do what they want, but size does matter.

I believe you might be viewing cities through the perspective of a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 measuring contest. Or maybe we should begin classifying SSP and UT members as some form of highrise-🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵.

Originally Posted by isaidso

And before people start going on about how different and Euro Montreal is, Paris, London, Milan, Moscow, Rotterdam, Warsaw, Frankfurt, etc. have all embraced height. Montreal is going in the opposite direction.

These proposals and currently under construction highrise towers would suggest otherwise. Let's hope for more progress, for more of the island to see projects at these densities.

Originally Posted by isaidso

Besides, there's little European about Montreal. It's north American to the core and always has been.

Since North America isn't a whitewash of a single pattern of habitation, I don't understand what you mean when the city is "North American to the core." It's...in North America...so I can't disagree with what you're asserting, whatever that may be.

Originally Posted by isaidso

Montrealers like to think of themselves as very European, but it's an attempt to distance oneself from anglo-America more than anything else.

I don't believe that francophones hate anglophones so much as to avoid building highrises because they've noticed the anglophones have built some...

Montréal was once part of New France. Montréal is Old North America.

[WhipperSnapper]

A skyline and a CBD leaves a lasting impression but, it's really the extent of the urbanized area that makes a city feel large. 120 metres is 40 storeys which is pretty darn tall too.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

A skyline and a CBD leaves a lasting impression but, it's really the extent of the urbanized area that makes a city feel large. 120 metres is 40 storeys which is pretty darn tall too.

If 120 metres consistently rose across half the island, that would be quite awesome.

[GreaterMontréal]

I wonder if people around the world will consider Montreal a big city 40 years from now? Probably not.

It's the population, not how much towers you have. In 40 years, Montréal will be around 7 million, it's big, the CMA will probably be larger in land area, and maybe we will have 300m towers, who knows. Mtl has always been smaller than New York, London, Paris etc... but people around the world are not stupid, they know it's smaller. There is a point where big doesn't = better. Canada is not competing, we don't have any 300m+ towers, but our cities are not small. Nobody can compete with New York, London, Shanghai,Tokyo etc...

future Canadian skyline, no 300m+ anywhere ?

[TownGuy]

To be fair FCP is a mere 2m short of 300. Also I realize the CN Tower isn't a skyscraper but it is still a inhabitable structure of 553 m. Don't think it gets enough credit around here.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by townguy

to be fair fcp is a mere 2m short of 300. Also i realize the cn tower isn't a skyscraper but it is still a inhabitable structure of 553 m. Don't think it gets enough credit around here.

1975.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I do like these designs, but the more I travel around the world the smaller Montreal feels. Many aren't comfortable with high density or tall buildings, but in the modern world both of these things are associated with 'big city'. In 1980 there was no disputing that Montreal felt like a big city. When I went back in 2000, it felt strangely 'small'.

At the rate the world's cities are developing, Montreal will end up feeling many notches down from the Chicagos and Melbournes of this world. The yard stick of what we associate with 'big city' moves all the time and Montreal isn't moving with that yard stick. Montrealers can do what they want, but size does matter.

And before people start going on about how different and Euro Montreal is, Paris, London, Milan, Moscow, Rotterdam, Warsaw, Frankfurt, etc. have all embraced height. Montreal is going in the opposite direction. Besides, there's little European about Montreal. It's north American to the core and always has been. Montrealers like to think of themselves as very European, but it's an attempt to distance oneself from anglo-America more than anything else.

RyeJay is right. First of all, Montreal doesn't "feel small", we still have two 200m towers and a cluster of towers taller than 140m... Especially with all the construction going on, Montreal's Downtown is just getting taller and denser year after year. Second of all, since when is height all that important? Berlin's (pop: 3,5 million) tallest building is 125 meters tall...
Third of all, it's ironic you say that when the city is experiencing it's biggest construction boom since the 90's.

Maybe if you're not from Montreal you shouldn't speculate about how it's population feels about height.

Just a reminder, we currently have 6 buildings under construction with 35 floors or more, including two 50-storey buildings...

[Rico Rommheim]

Oh, who cares? It's isaidso's opinion and that won't change. If he sees Montreal getting smaller and smaller as each year passes then that's what he sees and that's fine.

Montreal is a relatively large North American city. Some people look down at it (Anglo-Canadian media, SSP Calgary forumers ), others live in it and love it. That's all I needs to know.

[MTLskyline]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I couldn't agree more! I ran into those suburban developments recently on streetview and almost fainted. Whoever thought that was an appropriate type of development on the edge of downtown and two blocks from the city's busiest metro line should be immediately deported back to Phoenix.

I'd say those went up in the late 1980s and early 90s. Back then, Montreal was more desperate for residential development than it is now. I think it was probably all built when Jean Doré was mayor.

This area REALLY resembles parts of Longueuil (Saint-Hubert and Greenfield Park in particular). Friends never seem to understand why I hate that area.

People can deride the fact that we are building 120 metre towers downtown, but we've really come a long way from where we were, in the dark days of the 80s and 90s. Even 5-10 years ago, the norm for new tower heights downtown was under 100 metres (Crystal, Tours Lépines, Roc Fleuri, etc) ... I expect in 10 years, we'll be building more in the 150 metre range. As long as it's good quality, we'll take it.

[Tone]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I do like these designs, but the more I travel around the world the smaller Montreal feels. Many aren't comfortable with high density or tall buildings, but in the modern world both of these things are associated with 'big city'. In 1980 there was no disputing that Montreal felt like a big city. When I went back in 2000, it felt strangely 'small'.

At the rate the world's cities are developing, Montreal will end up feeling many notches down from the Chicagos and Melbournes of this world. The yard stick of what we associate with 'big city' moves all the time and Montreal isn't moving with that yard stick. Montrealers can do what they want, but size does matter.

And before people start going on about how different and Euro Montreal is, Paris, London, Milan, Moscow, Rotterdam, Warsaw, Frankfurt, etc. have all embraced height. Montreal is going in the opposite direction. Besides, there's little European about Montreal. It's north American to the core and always has been. Montrealers like to think of themselves as very European, but it's an attempt to distance oneself from anglo-America more than anything else.

Dude your constant downplay is tiresome. You dont like what you see, we get it. Why the need to always rain on our parade?

[Nouvellecosse]

Personally, I don't really care how tall the buildings are at this point. As long as they're good quality, have decent street interaction, and fill ugly empty lots, then I'm happy.

What really makes me mad is when an existing building is demolished or re-developed for a new project when there are vacant spaces nearby crying out for development.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Personally, I don't really care how tall the buildings are at this point. As long as they're good quality, have decent street interaction, and fill ugly empty lots, then I'm happy.

What really makes me mad is when an existing building is demolished or re-developed for a new project when there are vacant spaces nearby crying out for development.

Thankfully, that doesn't happen often in Montreal these days, except for those two victorian greystones that the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts demolished for their new pavillon. A little sad.


Source

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Oh, who cares? It's isaidso's opinion and that won't change. If he sees Montreal getting smaller and smaller as each year passes then that's what he sees and that's fine.

Montreal is a relatively large North American city. Some people look down at it (Anglo-Canadian media, SSP Calgary forumers ), others live in it and love it. That's all I needs to know.

Well, he's certainly entitled to his opinion and I, for one, is interested in what forumers from other cities think about Montreal. And like I said, Montreal does indeed feel smaller and smaller compare to Toronto. I don't think it's about to change.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Well, he's certainly entitled to his opinion and I, for one, is interested in what forumers from other cities think about Montreal. And like I said, Montreal does indeed feel smaller and smaller compare to Toronto. I don't think it's about to change.

Yes, but Montreal's construction boom is normal.

Vancouver has lots of highrises because the land area is smaller, and the city needs to densify in order to grow. Calgary's super boom comes from the tar sands industry, which is unique to Alberta. Toronto's growth is attributed to it's size and strong economy. Montreal can't be compared to these three cities because it doesn't have the same factors, given that the island is huge (50 kilometers from West to East end).

I personally think Montreal is doing great and I look up to the future.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Personally, I don't really care how tall the buildings are at this point. As long as they're good quality, have decent street interaction, and fill ugly empty lots, then I'm happy.

What really makes me mad is when an existing building is demolished or re-developed for a new project when there are vacant spaces nearby crying out for development.

% 100 agree

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

(Anglo-Canadian media, SSP Calgary forumers ), others live in it and love it. That's all I needs to know.

Why do you need to bait like that?

Can you find an example of where any Calgary forumer has mentioned anything untoward about Montreal in the last 16 months? I doubt it. Just remember, it's any time something good is mentioned about Calgary that so many of you Mtl guys feel the need to jump in to discredit it, without any factual basis... Not the other way around. I and everyone else here I know consistently compliment and or take note of all of the new projects going on for Mtl. It's a great thing seeing another city join the national boom.

[mistercorporate]

Hey guys, don't take isaidso's comments personally, his pro-height comments are what I like best about that guy, he also bashes Toronto's height timidity on the UT Toronto forums the same way. Like me he also wants Canada sprinkled with mini-Manhattans or London sized cities and pushes hard to strive for that sentiment. We need pro-development/height guys like that to balance out all the damn NIMBY's