PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[DKNewYork]

I'll be Pittsburgh in a few weeks and I might be meeting with the project manager of the Skinny Building/Roberts Building project. Heard that PHLF and URA are considering a bright, multi-colored palate for the little building so that it really pops. And apparently the Skinny Building, which is nearly all wood construction, is going to be a more challenging restoration that even the cast iron buildings across the street. But the team is apparently optimistic. One of the facades restored earlier (same block but further north on Wood, adjacent to the Kashi Building) has a wood exterior---less ornate than that on the Skinny Building---and the restoration went well.

Whoever it was on this page who called the Skinny Building a gem and possible tourist attraction is correct---fully-restored and dramatically painted, it will be a real showstopper. The rock star of the Wood-Forbes intersection.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I know you can't stop people like that neighbor from saying things like that. I just wish people in charge of developers with exclusive rights to large amounts of prime land were not echoing them.

I also really wish that people would stop thinking that they had a god-given right to a parking space. At some point the football tailgating culture in Pittsburgh has to give way to some more intelligent use of value downtown adjacent land.

[Found5dollar]

doing some errands today, I took some pictures with my cell phone of some of the development in east liberty.

New Landscaping around the East Liberty Presbyterian Church


They have started construction over at the former Y


The Articulation building is slowly trucking on. The inside looks completely new and finished.


Hotel Indigo had a crane up today.


The Transit center development is still doing earth moving, but there is alot of activity.

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Since the AAA building is an historic market building, I would be a little reluctant to mess around with the exterior too much. The interior has been changed around a lot, but similarly I would want to preserve as much of the original open space and details as remain.

That said, it looks like it originally had some more openings (maybe vehicle openings) on the Centre side. Here is a photo from 1955:



Zoomed in:



From this streetview you can see some of the not-quite-matched brick:

http://goo.gl/maps/gRpW5

So maybe you could open those back up, then do something different with the landscaping on that side (maybe hardscaping for a patio look, or just widen the sidewalk?).

Edit: Landmarks Design Associates is who reconfigured it as a shopping center for the AAA (which then mostly failed, so the AAA took over more space). They still have a page up about it:

http://www.ldaarchitects.com/motorsquare.htm

Great old aerial photo. Really shows what a retail hub East Liberty was in its prime.

Is that Ellsworth Ave. cutting diagonally across the rail line? Anyone know why it was redirected? On current maps, the little street running against the rail line is called Ellsworth Ave, but it must have been something else originally.

[SkyPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Johnland

Is that Ellsworth Ave. cutting diagonally across the rail line? Anyone know why it was redirected? On current maps, the little street running against the rail line is called Ellsworth Ave, but it must have been something else originally.

The best maps that I can find (http://peoplemaps.esri.com/pittviewer/) (really cool website btw, shows some really old maps of the City) show that Ellsworth was re-routed onto a road what used to be called "Ravenna St." By my best guess was that they (the city/ura) demolished that Ellsworth bridge as well as a Shady Avenue Bridge closer to where Target is now as part of the "Urban Renewal" plan or maybe something related to the railroad, it looks like a low clearance bridge.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

Heard that PHLF and URA are considering a bright, multi-colored palate for the little building so that it really pops. And apparently the Skinny Building, which is nearly all wood construction, is going to be a more challenging restoration that even the cast iron buildings across the street. But the team is apparently optimistic. One of the facades restored earlier (same block but further north on Wood, adjacent to the Kashi Building) has a wood exterior---less ornate than that on the Skinny Building---and the restoration went well.

Sounds great! I love palates like that on ornate wood buildings, and it would really make it stand out from the stately Roberts Building.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by GeneW

At some point the football tailgating culture in Pittsburgh has to give way to some more intelligent use of value downtown adjacent land.

Amen. I recognize the need for a large number of parking spaces, but they should end up in structures. And a lot of public money went into the stadiums--if there is ever going to be anything close to a fair return on that investment, the utilization of the local land needs to be maximized. And for that matter, people should be encouraged to patronize local bars and restaurants, rather than tailgating.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Johnland

Is that Ellsworth Ave. cutting diagonally across the rail line? Anyone know why it was redirected? On current maps, the little street running against the rail line is called Ellsworth Ave, but it must have been something else originally.

Yep, Ellsworth, and as noted above the street next to the railroad tracks back then was Ravenna. You can also see all that on this historic map section:

http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?view=entry;cc=maps;entryid=x-084e1938

I suspect the streets were reconfigured as part of the East Busway project, but I will see if I can confirm that.

Edit:

Yep. This article reports the Ellsworth bridge was torn down in the late 1970s as part of the East Busway project:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=11...AAAAIBAJ&sjid=d2MEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3800,58460

[BrianTH]

A little tangential, but here is an article about the new parking system the City has been rolling out, including some upcoming tweaks:

http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/5004713-74/parking-authority-plate#axzz2q3Hko9Li

Pay by cellphone in particular will be a great step forward, and sort of a fair complement to more enforcement through license plate scanners.

[Found5dollar]

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region...ing-delays-Downtown/stories/201401100135

so this happened.

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yep, Ellsworth, and as noted above the street next to the railroad tracks back then was Ravenna. You can also see all that on this historic map section:

http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?view=entry;cc=maps;entryid=x-084e1938

I suspect the streets were reconfigured as part of the East Busway project, but I will see if I can confirm that.

Edit:

Yep. This article reports the Ellsworth bridge was torn down in the late 1970s as part of the East Busway project:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=11...AAAAIBAJ&sjid=d2MEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3800,58460

BrianTH - Thanks for the maps and the background info on the demolition. I see that streetcar lines ran down Ellsworth (as also on Centre and Highland). You can see how much more connected East Liberty's shopping district was to Shadyside. So interesting to think just how different the East End was not too long ago.

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

The best maps that I can find (http://peoplemaps.esri.com/pittviewer/) (really cool website btw, shows some really old maps of the City) show that Ellsworth was re-routed onto a road what used to be called "Ravenna St." By my best guess was that they (the city/ura) demolished that Ellsworth bridge as well as a Shady Avenue Bridge closer to where Target is now as part of the "Urban Renewal" plan or maybe something related to the railroad, it looks like a low clearance bridge.

SkyPittsburgh - That is a great map. I centered over East Liberty at 3 levels closest in taking in the view from Friendship to the west over to Larimer (I think) to the east with East Liberty in the center. Toggeling back and forth between 1957 and 2003, it really shows how East Lib. went from a full scale urban center to just an empty shell. Even the adjacent residential areas show marked abandonment (mostly Garfield and Larimer). But then the 2012 view shows the revival making a turn around.

[SkyPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Johnland

SkyPittsburgh - That is a great map. I centered over East Liberty at 3 levels closest in taking in the view from Friendship to the west over to Larimer (I think) to the east with East Liberty in the center. Toggeling back and forth between 1957 and 2003, it really shows how East Lib. went from a full scale urban center to just an empty shell. Even the adjacent residential areas show marked abandonment (mostly Garfield and Larimer). But then the 2012 view shows the revival making a turn around.

It really is a shame what happened to East Liberty and for that matter, the Northside as well during the Urban Renewal. I would really like to see some more attention paid to the Allegheny Center Mall mess, if East Liberty can come back, that place can too.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Johnland

You can see how much more connected East Liberty's shopping district was to Shadyside. So interesting to think just how different the East End was not too long ago.

This book has some interesting commentary on that very point (although I have seen people contest some of this):

http://books.google.com/books?id=5bOrxJ4...20over%20tracks%20east%20liberty&f=false



I think we are slowly but surely recreating this historical Greater East Liberty. In fact when the East Liberty Transit Center is done, there will be new bridges at those three locations, more or less (Ellsworth, Highland, and Shady).

[GeneW]

I remember having a real-estate guide to Pittsburgh in the late eighties/early nineties that had a map of the east-end that totally erased East Liberty. Everything north of Penn on that map was Highland Park and Everything south was Shadyside. As I remember neither Garfield or Homewood showed up that map either.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by GeneW

I remember having a real-estate guide to Pittsburgh in the late eighties/early nineties that had a map of the east-end that totally erased East Liberty. Everything north of Penn on that map was Highland Park and Everything south was Shadyside. As I remember neither Garfield or Homewood showed up that map either.

I think even things like the "East Side" name are reflective of the poor branding of East Liberty in that era. But now it seems to have shifted back, as in the case of the East Liberty Transit Center.

[WePA]

All of you asking "Was that Ellsworth? Did Ellsworth cross like that?" could just take a walk and read the plaque on the the west side of the new Highland Bridge over the busway. It was indeed Ellsworth that crossed diagonally into that 5-way intersection.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

But whether automated cars will substitute for, or rather complement, transit is a harder question to answer.

I see them replacing infrequent, intercity transit (why take the train on a fixed schedule when you can rent a self-driving car which shows up at your house), but I don't see making a significant dent in commuter transit, given you'd need to have a huge surplus of automated cars to handle rush hour, which would stand by idle the rest of the day, and have to all park somewhere.

Indeed, due to the solving of the "last mile" problem, automated cars might actually help rapid transit lines increase their utilization. At least during rush hour.

[Johnland]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

This book has some interesting commentary on that very point (although I have seen people contest some of this):

http://books.google.com/books?id=5bOrxJ4...20over%20tracks%20east%20liberty&f=false



I think we are slowly but surely recreating this historical Greater East Liberty. In fact when the East Liberty Transit Center is done, there will be new bridges at those three locations, more or less (Ellsworth, Highland, and Shady).

That's an interesting book because it places the location of the Pennsylvania RR's Shady Side Station at the end of Amberson Ave. I was never sure exactly where the station stood.

Also, that book makes the point that originally, what we think of as the eastern end of Shadyside, was actually more known as East Liberty. You can see that in the denser development of blocks east of Negley vs. the more spacious development to the west that was dominated by large estates.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by WePA

All of you asking "Was that Ellsworth? Did Ellsworth cross like that?" could just take a walk and read the plaque on the the west side of the new Highland Bridge over the busway. It was indeed Ellsworth that crossed diagonally into that 5-way intersection.

Sure, I could have spent a few hours walking over from my house and circling around the location on the off chance there was a plaque somewhere that answered the question.

Or I could have used the most powerful system ever designed for finding out information that happened to be sitting on my lap.

It was a tough call, but I am comfortable with my choice.