Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Corroded steel in Civic Centre boosts Lansdowne costs $17M

By David Reevely, OTTAWA CITIZEN December 31, 2013 11:01 AM

OTTAWA — Key steel supports in the Civic Centre at Lansdowne Park are were in much worse shape than anybody realized and the city and the private consortium renovating Lansdowne are arguing over whose problem it is to pay the $17-million bill.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa...oosts+Lansdowne+costs/9337609/story.html

Yikes-The last few seasons of Gee-Gees football there, that I attended , one was not allowed to sit in the upper half of the North Side. That included a Yates Cup championship game where all the available seats in the bottom half were packed. And you could not use the North side stands and the stands inside the arena at the same time. One Gee-Gee game was rescheduled because it conflicted with a 67's game.
At the time we were told that the structural engineers were not satisfied that some of the supports would take a full weight load. It was estimated that it would cost 5 million to reinforce them.

I wondered, when attending games, how safe it really was. Now we find that the rot was greater than expected. It probably was not all that safe. All of Lansdowne was allowed to rot by the City and they should have been more pro-active in discovering and fixing the problem in this case, because it was a serious safety issue.

[alecz_dad]

Much skepticism being expressed in comments on Ottawa newspapers' websites (and no, they aren't ALL me!):
Ottawa Sun
CBC
Citizen (Sorry, I find it a bit doubtful nobody wanted to comment on the story on the Citizen website. Looks like the OSMUG extended market coverage circular is allowing its commercial interests to overshadow its editorial decisions.)

[alecz_dad]

Hilarious that Bob "Football King" Monette is now whinging about how Council was promised the City wouldn't get hooped for extra costs when they signed on with OSMUG.

I don't seem to recall Monette expressing any skepticism on this score when he was the one beating the drum loudest for the Lansdowne scheme.

These are all good, local boys, we were told, with the implication that they would never do City taxpayers wrong.

Oh well, even if OSMUG has to pony up for these repairs, apparently it just increases its equity stake, and so, its share of the money trickling down via the magic waterfall. So, it sounds like they win either way.

'Twas ever so. Billionaires don't get rich spending their own money.

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

City, OSEG at odds over added Lansdowne costs
$17 million in repairs to corroded steel beams needed to be done, OSEG says

CBC Ottawa, December 31, 2013, 4:08 PM

"It is the City’s view that, with regard to the funding of these unexpected costs, the provisions of the Lansdowne Redevelopment Plan Project Agreement related to the City’s guaranteed maximum price require OSEG to pay for the costs of the work that are in excess of the project contingency that is contained within the Guaranteed Maximum Price," Manconi wrote in a statement.

As part of the Lansdowne deal, the extra costs would add to OSEG's minimum equity, giving them a potential greater share of future earnings from Lansdowne.

Councillor Bob Monette said city council was assured this exact scenario wouldn't happen.

"A lot of us asked, are there going to be any other costs down the road, and they everybody said no. So I don't think taxpayers should be on the hook for the full amount, that's for sure," said Monette.

Greenberg said if his company and the city can't come to an agreement, they would go to an arbitrator.

But the cost overrun won't delay the opening of Lansdowne next year.

[alecz_dad]

This latest revelation again begs the question of why it was thought to be such a good idea to try to renovate the very unremarkable Civic Centre complex, when it would likely have been possible to build a new stadium from scratch for about as much.

The answer, it is becoming increasingly clear, is that by tying the restoration of the stadium and the return of CFL football, to a scheme for the redevelopment of public lands at Lansdowne involving the construction of a private shopping centre, private condos and private office building -- the de facto privatization of Lansdowne -- with the City's debt to be repaid through a magic money waterfall repayment system, that the City was being handcuffed to the private deal. Once both aspects of the deal were cemented in the public imagination, the chance that the City might back out to go it alone on redeveloping Lansdowne, or to build a new stadium elsewhere, was remote.

Bravo, Mr. Greenberg! Well played.

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Corroded steel in Civic Centre boosts Lansdowne costs $17M

By David Reevely, OTTAWA CITIZEN December 31, 2013 11:01 AM

OTTAWA — Key steel supports in the Civic Centre at Lansdowne Park are were in much worse shape than anybody realized and the city and the private consortium renovating Lansdowne are arguing over whose problem it is to pay the $17-million bill.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa...oosts+Lansdowne+costs/9337609/story.html

[phil235]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

This latest revelation again begs the question of why it was thought to be such a good idea to try to renovate the very unremarkable Civic Centre complex, when it would likely have been possible to build a new stadium from scratch for about as much.

Never was true, still isn't.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Citizen (Sorry, I find it a bit doubtful nobody wanted to comment on the story on the Citizen website. Looks like the OSMUG extended market coverage circular is allowing its commercial interests to overshadow its editorial decisions.)

Commenting has dropped dramatically on the Citizen since they made people use their Facebook accounts to do so. That's been the case for a couple of years, I believe. Check out David Reevely's blog as an example of how much less activity there is along those lines.

In any event, there are two comments on the article now, both of which state that the city should not be on the hook. Those fine folks must have managed to get by the editorial team, eh?

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Nonetheless, I'm sure that OSMUG was probably unhappy about the article's headline's characterization of their retail complex as "big box," since they have been at great pains to denounce anyone who described Lansdowne's stores as "big box" mall. (OK, the boxes may be smaller, but the plan and the developer -- Trinity -- are "big box" right down to their socks, so really no need to split hairs.)

When has OSEG done that? I don't recall them going to "great pains".

[waterloowarrior]

Back on topic...happy new year everyone! Lansdowne will be partially opening this year so this thread will be the one to watch in 2014
http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/01/01/lans...taxpayers-will-keep-their-eyes-on-others

[Fatty McButterpants]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

This latest revelation again begs the question of why it was thought to be such a good idea to try to renovate the very unremarkable Civic Centre complex, when it would likely have been possible to build a new stadium from scratch for about as much.

The answer, it is becoming increasingly clear, is that by tying the restoration of the stadium and the return of CFL football, to a scheme for the redevelopment of public lands at Lansdowne involving the construction of a private shopping centre, private condos and private office building -- the de facto privatization of Lansdowne -- with the City's debt to be repaid through a magic money waterfall repayment system, that the City was being handcuffed to the private deal. Once both aspects of the deal were cemented in the public imagination, the chance that the City might back out to go it alone on redeveloping Lansdowne, or to build a new stadium elsewhere, was remote.

Bravo, Mr. Greenberg! Well played.

I agree that a refurbished stadium is lame. This thing is going to be a huge disappointment once the initial novelty wears off. The park and retail aspects of the development look fine to me, but the patch job on the sports facilities is pretty embarassing.

[Boxster]

Why do you say a patch job? Do we always need to tear down stuff just for the sake of rebuilding someting new when its not really required.

Originally Posted by Fatty McButterpants

I agree that a refurbished stadium is lame. This thing is going to be a huge disappointment once the initial novelty wears off. The park and retail aspects of the development look fine to me, but the patch job on the sports facilities is pretty embarassing.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by Fatty McButterpants

I agree that a refurbished stadium is lame. This thing is going to be a huge disappointment once the initial novelty wears off.

Why would it? It's not like the fact that the north side is being renovated instead of rebuilt is going to sneak up on anyone. Opinions are bsed on what people are seeing now. It's not as though it will take anyone by surprise. There's no false expectation being set.

[Fatty McButterpants]

Originally Posted by JFFournier

Why would it? It's not like the fact that the north side is being renovated instead of rebuilt is going to sneak up on anyone. Opinions are bsed on what people are seeing now. It's not as though it will take anyone by surprise. There's no false expectation being set.

Because everyone (myself included) is caught up in the buzz, excitement and anticipation. Like most people, I am happy and excited to see this place open. For the longest time, I didn't care much about the finer design details because I was just happy something was finally happening. The best time to sell someone something sub-standard is when they're desperate for anything. And that is a recipe for eventual disappointment. That's all I'm saying.

The new half of the stadium will look great. The old half will look generally as ugly and dated as it did before (I know, I know ... there have been some modifications. But nothing "groundbreaking"). The Civic Centre is a monstrosity that can never be salvaged. And so that's what we'll have: a hodgepodge of eclectic structures. A patch job. Something novel (for a bit, anyway).

[eemy]

Personally, I don't find the Civic Centre that ugly, though it is certainly a monstrosity. One thing that I'm not entirely clear about is how they will address its street-level interaction with the retail components of Lansdowne.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Personally, I don't find the Civic Centre that ugly, though it is certainly a monstrosity. One thing that I'm not entirely clear about is how they will address its street-level interaction with the retail components of Lansdowne.

As someone not originally from Ottawa, I always thought the complex was very cool whenever I came here (though the arena is definitely a weird shape). There have also got to be some efficiencies in housing the arena and stadium on the same structure.

I'm not sure the interaction of the new retail is a big issue. I just wonder what types of businesses will be renting those little storefronts.

[DubLife]

Originally Posted by phil235

I'm not sure the interaction of the new retail is a big issue. I just wonder what types of businesses will be renting those little storefronts.

Jack Astor's is opening a location at Lansdowne. I can see bars/restaurants doing well there, although I am not the biggest Jack's fan.

A friend of mine works for OSEG and told me something I don't think I've seen mentioned here before... the field will have soccer lines for soccer games and football lines for football games, the field will not have both sets of lines at all times. I am not sure how they are going to accomplish this, likely paint, but it should give off a much more professional vibe vs having both sets of lines at all times which looks like a university.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by DubLife

Jack Astor's is opening a location at Lansdowne. I can see bars/restaurants doing well there, although I am not the biggest Jack's fan.

A friend of mine works for OSEG and told me something I don't think I've seen mentioned here before... the field will have soccer lines for soccer games and football lines for football games, the field will not have both sets of lines at all times. I am not sure how they are going to accomplish this, likely paint, but it should give off a much more professional vibe vs having both sets of lines at all times which looks like a university.

They can do it with a new product called Stripe-ex

Stripe-ex-- REMOVABLE Paints for Synthetic Field Turf, Artificial grass Athletic Fields.

Google it and you can find articles on it, if interested.

[J.OT13]

Always kind of liked the Civic Centre, though the south side seats (below the north side Frank Clair stands) are horrible; can't even see the scoreboard.

[ThaLoveDocta]

Originally Posted by phil235

That's great to hear. I'm in the Glebe as well, and I think that what you will find is that people like Alecz_dad, while vocal, certainly do not represent the views of entire community, no matter how much they like to think they do. In fact, that is a large part of the reason why the opposition failed - they couldn't agree amongst themselves on what should be done at Lansdowne. As a result, they were 100% negative in their position and comments, which sadly seems to continue to this day on this board.

In any event, don't be bothered by that nonsense. Given your well- constructed and definitive rebuttal of Alecz_dad's post, I don't expect that you'll hear much more from him.

There are plenty of Glebe residents who are excited about the project, are quite okay with the intensification that it brings, and who will welcome you with open arms. I wish you the best. I expect that you will love your new home.

+1 from another Glebite.

[Glenlivet Ave]

Lansdowne Park will be re-named TD Place according to this article:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Ottawa+landmark+Lansdowne+Park+renamed/9356287/story.html

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Glenlivet Ave

Lansdowne Park will be re-named TD Place according to this article:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Ottawa+landmark+Lansdowne+Park+renamed/9356287/story.html

Oh, God, no! Lansdowne is such a unique and important name to Ottawa, they can't possibly think about changing the name... I'd be more comfortable with naming the sports arena TD Place, but the entire park should remain Lansdowne.