Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[Future Mayor]

I can see both points of view on which looks better. Viewing our directly from the south it's pitiful. View it the north, NW, SW or from the University Blvd curve and it's a pretty kick 🞵🞵🞵 skyline.

I like some of Des Moines buildings, and while I love Wells Fargo, it just doesn't have the standout, "look at me" to it. I think the 801 tower does that, it sort of says, look at me I'm the tallest mofo in this place.

As has been pointed out, once 111, Cascade and CCH are built, SLC's skyline will drastically improve. Some holes will be filled from the NW angle with 111, and it will widen from the south view particularly with the CCH at RWP and Cascade will help to legitimize that width. I would also hope that the CCH will bring a new obvious tallest, with the "look at me" sort of height and design.

I think the key to creating a more diverse and impressive skyline is for future towers to be built off Main. Towers that have at one point been proposed that could do this will be future Tower 8 at City Creek (NE State/1st); World Trade Center Utah, (NW State/2nd); CCH (NW 2nd/2nd);

While we're on the subject of new towers, when the Salt Palace expansion is approved in conjunction with a developer building a hotel I wouldn't be surprised to see another 500+ room hotel be built in close proximity to the Salt Palace. The reason I see this is that with another large expansion of exhibit space, and of course a designated large convention hotel, more and larger conventions will choose Salt Lake as their convention destination, requiring even more hotel space. My ideal brand would be W, Hyatt, or Ritz, but honestly I don't care what the brand is, as long as it's a middle to high end brand. My preferred location for such a hotel would be the parking lot SE of ESA. This location make perfect sense seeing as it would be nuzzled between the Salt Palace and ESA, it could even have a Japanese flair in it's design, to pay homage to Japan Town.

[ToysNoiz]

You're right, FM. Wells Fargo doesn't stand out from most angles. But It is our best skyscraper.

I'd love to have a CHH stand where Shilo Inn is now. It would fit perfectly in the skyline seen from NW. It wouldn't block any-thing big, and the whole thing would be visible. Seen from north and south, it wouldn't appear far away from the rest of the skyline. For me, it would be awesome if it looked like the Bank of America tower in NYC.

[SLC Projects]

Future Mayor already pointed this out. But the issue with the Wells Fargo Center is that when the developer develop it back in the late 90's they build a 400 FT tower and then place a 22 pole on top beating out the Church Office Building by 2 FT and calling it a new tallest. The Wells Fargo building is by far our best skyscraper hands down, but it doesn't shout out "hey look at me, I'm the tallest. If I didn't know any better looking at the skyline, I would think the Church Office Building or even 99 West would be taller then Wells Fargo. Heck I'm willing to bet that once 111 South Main is done, it will look taller. It's a shame that the Wells Fargo Building couldn't be another 25 FT or so. Then it would of clearly stand out more as our tallest. 801 stands out way better then Wells.

[delts145]

I pretty much agree with everything Future Mayor has said on the subject of both skylines, so as not to belabor the points with my added opinions. Also, I really like how EPdesign hit the nail on the head with how Salt Lake's skyline has a much more attractive interaction between buildings. In fact, with a couple of exceptions I think most of the contemporary mid and high rises in Des Moines CBD are downright ugly.

Even though we're only talking about buildings per se and not settings, one fact will always be glaringly obvious. Salt lake's topography makes any comparison to many skylines, especially a Des Moines kind of laughable and meaningless. Salt Lake will only continue to grow upward and more dense, but that stunning Wasatch backdrop and it's proximity can never be competed with by other major metros.

Now if Provo will just continue to develop a decent skyline to compliment it's spectacular backdrop.

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Comparatively Salt lake Citys Skyline looks awesome because of how the buildings interact with each other. It is really like we HAD Three Skylines in one. The Most northern part with Temple Square, COB, and the buildings lining south temple. Then you have second which includes the Chase, Wells Fargo, 222, and American Towers. And last and smallest is the south one. With the Grand and Little America. But now with the new buildings, from different angles its like the skyline is starting to connect. It really makes the city look dense.






And I really don't think we give enough credit to our city for the Growth it has had downtown. I mean. I remember when it looked like this. (I took the pic of google so I don't know who to credit for it. lol)



As for Des Moines. I was looking at the pics and there really are only one angle the city looks really outstanding. and it is a much smaller skyline than Salt lake, even if it does have a Major tower


I still even like the East View of Salt Lake City too....but it's taking too long to upload the pic.

P.S. I agree, the pic above is probably Des Moines most attractive angle, and that's not saying much. The only towers even reasonably attractive would be the tallest in the center and the tower at the far left. Man, the rest are pretty brutal. I mean, look at that second tallest eyesore to the right of the tallest

[delts145]

This is an angle we don't get to see often enough I think. I really like it, especially considering how attractive the taller peaks are behind the Capitol foothills, once you get back to this distance. The CCH, 111, and Cascade will look great as additions from this angle also.

[scottharding]

Here's an article from the Tribune about our air quality. When we've discussed it in the past, sometimes the opinion comes out that the geography makes it a moot point and there's nothing we can do to fix our inversion problem. This article addresses that to a degree. I thought it was interesting:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/57344144-82/mexico-pollution-lake-moench.html.csp

[jimmycdii]

Developers are complaining because they have higher impact fees and can't demolish buildings downtown to put in more parking. I also noticed that at least one forum-er made some great points in the comments section.

Developers, Salt Lake City clash over impact fees, demolition and parking rules

[ToysNoiz]

I feel as though some of our law makers don't see the inversion as a big deal. Hell, they were making jokes about it. They only pretended to give a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 when SLC got national attention. How do we fix this if no one cares?

Anyway, I'm impressed with Mexico City. It's pretty cool that the refinery land was redeveloped.

[Comrade]

I'm not suggesting any of you are wrong about liking Salt Lake's skyline more than Des Moines - but I do believe you're blinded by your biases. It's all right, as I'm sure many people are (hell, you may find a person from Boise who thinks their skyline is better than Salt Lake's.

But I would wager, to those who have no ties to either city, a vast majority would pick Des Moines' skyline over Salt Lake's. Our skyline is not entirely impressive and the fact so many of you continue to rely on the natural beauty surrounding the skyline tells me this - a skyline shouldn't need mountains or whatever to work. It's pretty damn flat around Charlotte and their skyline blows ours out of the water.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Makid

Currently, only the first hotel is being built. That is the one on the corner of 3rd West and 1st South.

Sadly, it doesn't look like the power lines are coming down with this development. It is kind of funny too as they really only are there from 2nd West through 4th West along 1st South. Also, I wouldn't expect that they will be removed until the Salt Palace is expanded across 1st South.

I wouldn't count on the salt palace being expanded across 1st south.

The old stuve building can not be demolished. Before going out of business they tried to sale the building to relocate for years... No one would buy it because they couldn't tear it down.. It will most likely become offices or loft condos.

As the last remaining part of Japan Town.. I also don't think that the Japanese church is going anywhere.

Then there is the low income sr. Housing tower on the other side of the street... As much as I would like to see that eyesore come down... The prospect of relocating all the residence is not likely.

If the salt palace expands anywhere it will be across 200 west if RWP is chosen as the site of the CCH.

About the only way I could get behind the RWP site is if the whole block were demolished and redeveloped... Including the low income tower and apartments along 200 south... I would also want to see something done with the ops site side of the street on 200 south.

Perhaps some older buildings such as the old public safety building could be renovated and used to replace the low income sr. Housing tower.... The housing tower is hideous and would detract from a CCH.. The public safety building might not be large enough.. But there is plenty of space for expansion... The Shilo inn might be another good candidate to convert to housing... That building would need to be stripped down to the metal framing... But it could still save cost.

[ajiuO]

My ideas tend to be a bit crazy for most people.. But let me fly this one.

One area that I have always seen as a problem area is the area surrounding the state liqueur store on 400 s & 200 west. The store is always surrounded by druggie transients. I see drug deals going on there and at mcdonalds regularly. It's so bad that that particular store has the distinctive smell of homeless drunks.

My idea: Ultimately I would like to see the rio grand transient camp moved to west valley and liquor sales privatized... But I doubt either will happen any time soon... So how about this. We close the 200 west store and then open a smaller store down on 5th or 6th west for the transients... Then the state could leas some space inside of Harmon's and smiths market place to sale liquor.. This would be good for a few reasons.. The state would still have their precious control, it would be convent for people to buy booze and wine right at the grocery store, also having a state ran store within a privately owned facility would keep the transients out.. Because the private entity can enforce dress codes, standards and rules...

[EPdesign]

ajiuO You are opening a can of worms bro!

[ajiuO]

Why would it be ridiculous for the state to have a liquor store inside of another store??

And I'm not trying to insult people who are legitimately homeless and need help.. I'm talking about the transients.. The junkies, drunks and lazies.. Those are the ones hanging around the liquor store / mcdonalds dealing drugs and trashing up the hood...

[ToysNoiz]

ajiuO, I think that's a pretty alright idea. Never heard anything like that before.

[EPdesign]

1. Utah-the State where there is such a thing as a Zion Curtain. I'm not saying I disagree. Hells, you say lets get a beer and I'm down. The thought of such a proposal being presented to the citizens of this state would be interesting.

2. The transient, drug users, and drunk population. That is a very sensitive subject. It is like the Pioneer park issue. Cities have been dealing with this problem relentlessly and it gets pretty heated. I don't oppose what you are saying. I'm just saying it gets the forum going.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

Remember: taller is not always better.

Nobody ever said that was the case. Height can be a contributing factor to better, however.

With all that said, if I could trade 801 Grand for Wells Fargo, I do that yesterday.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

1. Utah-the State where there is such a thing as a Zion Curtain. I'm not saying I disagree. Hells, you say lets get a beer and I'm down. The thought of such a proposal being presented to the citizens of this state would be interesting.

2. The transient, drug users, and drunk population. That is a very sensitive subject. It is like the Pioneer park issue. Cities have been dealing with this problem relentlessly and it gets pretty heated. I don't oppose what you are saying. I'm just saying it gets the forum going.

Many citizens would be fine with this. The reason why we don't have something like this is because of our caucus system, which lets small groups, like the Eagle Forum/Gayle Ruzicka, manipulate the system so only the most right-wing candidates get elected. The majority of the people in Utah are moderates, but mostly only far-right wing candidates get nominated at state conventions. This is why we need a primary.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

1. Utah-the State where there is such a thing as a Zion Curtain. I'm not saying I disagree. Hells, you say lets get a beer and I'm down. The thought of such a proposal being presented to the citizens of this state would be interesting.

2. The transient, drug users, and drunk population. That is a very sensitive subject. It is like the Pioneer park issue. Cities have been dealing with this problem relentlessly and it gets pretty heated. I don't oppose what you are saying. I'm just saying it gets the forum going.

I get the Zion curtain thing.. But what I am proposing is to have a store within a store... It can be partitioned off from the rest of the store.. Basically taking the situation at the smiths on 6th ave one step further by having the liquor store entrance inside of grocery store for connivance... And to keep the drunken transients away... If you can't access the store but to pass through private property.... The private business owner can have rule witch prevents such people from passing on their property...

and I'm not even trying to stop the transient junkies from getting their booze... A smaller store could be installed close to rio grande where they all hang out... If they want to kill themselves with drugs and booze that is their decision.. But we don't need to have them making the rest of the city uncomfortable for those of us who don't make those type of life decisions.

And Stenar: Utah's liquor laws are far from being a normal right winged policy. The right wing is generally against the state regulating business and such things... Telling us what we can and can't consume and restricting businesses from providing those things to us is actually a progressive left wing type of thinking.... Look at New York with all their ridiculousness anti soda and salt propaganda garbage.. That is all the left wing. l the right is against it.... In Utah we have a very special breed of right wing that are hypocritical and instantly switch progressive left when their religious view warrant it... I'm not excusing it or saying its good.. But don't generalize conservative... Conservatives want less government regulation.... Not more.... And yes they are hypocritical on a few things like marriage... That's why I support libertarians and not republican... They are much more consistent and logical... And I hope that libertarians eventually overtake the Republican Party... Please don't generalize all conservatives and right wingers though.... Not all of us are dictated by religion... Some of us just want the government to get the hell out of the way and let us live our own lives

[ajiuO]

And I don't want Utah to become more libel... I want us to get rid of our liberal liquor laws... And as for gay marriage... I don't thing the government has any business defining marriage period... It goes far beyond being a gay issue... It's not fair that people who choose to stay single have to pay more taxes and get stiffed on 🞵🞵🞵🞵... The problem with marriage has never been a gay issue alone.. Although that is what people have chose to focus on... The problem is that there are other laws that are bias towards people who don't fit the definition of marriage.... Since gay had no desire to fit that definition they saw it as bias towards them specifically..... Changing the definition includes them but doesn't fix the problem... Laws are still bias towards a lot of people... Gay people just get to be a member of the club now... Good for them... But it still 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 for polygamist and for single people.... Where are are the liberals fighting for polygamist and single people not to be discriminated against???? They're hypocrites just like the Republicans... Just in a different way.... As long as they get what they want it's okay.

Libertarian conservatism.... No legal marriage for anybody... Same tax rates and benefits for everybody.

I'm sure this post will get deleted.. But who cares :/

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

And Stenar: Utah's liquor laws are far from being a normal right winged policy. The right wing is generally against the state regulating business and such things... Telling us what we can and can't consume and restricting businesses from providing those things to us is actually a progressive left wing type of thinking.... Look at New York with all their ridiculousness anti soda and salt propaganda garbage.. That is all the left wing.

The states with the most restrictive liquor laws are some of the most conservative.

Ideologically, modern conservatives generally crusade against drinking, legalization of marijuana, 🞵🞵🞵🞵, marriage equality and other supposed vices - often using the government to regulate them.