Canada's 50 Tallest Proposals - Page 467

Chadillaccc · #**9321** Posted **Jan 2, 2014, 11:52 PM**

Evictions are now officially underway at Art Central. One of their longest running studios/galleries has left, among several others. Looks like Telus Sky is right on schedule

caltrane74 · #**9322** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 12:04 AM**

I am beginning to notice a trend in Toronto, and that trend is that the same set of shoring rigs is used for all the big towers. I guess whatever happens with Massey Tower, Eau du Soleil or 88 Scott they will have to wait for the shoring rigs to finish their job at 10 York before the next project starts.

Construction bottleneck...

Eau du Soliel may end up tracking on the same construction schedule as Telus Sky? Or Possibly Massey Tower...

travis3000 · #**9323** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 5:27 AM**

My guess is the next 200m+ tower to start construction will be 88 Scott which could begin sometime in the next month or two. Massey Tower will be next, maybe sometime in May-June I am guessing? Eau Du Soleil should get going this summer sometime now that the approvals are all in. After that it's anyones guess... maybe The Icon? I think Casa III will be a 2015 project.

Innsertnamehere · #**9324** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 6:13 AM**

88 scott will move to this list in a couple of weeks probably, demolition is finally nearing completion.

Massey will be next, and than either Telus Sky or Eau Du Soliel

Speaking of EDS, it was approved by council a couple of weeks ago. Its good to go!

caltrane74 · #**9325** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 12:09 PM**

After those three or four towers, we will have a drought of sorts as there is nothing big on the list guaranteed to start shortly. Do we even have anything over 200 meters in sales in Toronto? The only good news from this situation is that the current constructors list is going to be good and tall for the next three to four years, which is enough time for new projects to get to the market and get into sales.

I've been reading the real estate articles over the last couple days, and most of the big market players are predicting very slow condo sales for the next two years, with sales averaging only 12,000 units to a high of 15,000 new units sold per year. Brad Lamb said he only expects 12k units to be sold in Toronto this year. So even if we see a big 200 meter tower move into sales it will likely take a while before it gets going. One thing to remember is that in the beginning of the construction boom here (2001-2003), 12,000 units was the regular yearly total for new condo sales.

osirisboy · #**9326** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 1:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

... its under construction and therefor is not on the 50 tallest proposals list..

Oh but it's not under construction yet it's only in excavation stage. Is excavation considered under construction in the canada section?

caltrane74 · #**9327** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 1:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Oh but it's not under construction yet it's only in excavation stage. Is excavation considered under construction in the canada section?

Only in the world of Skyscraperpage is excavation not considered construction.

Welcome to the real world, son.

Innsertnamehere · #**9328** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 4:22 PM**

its under construction by the Canada section rules, not the main board rules. the Canada section definition of construction is much more realistic. Its why 10 York is under construction now as well. 12k unit sales is still perfectly fine. A 200m tower is typically around 700 units, so they can still fly in the market. 460 Yonge (Y+C Condos) will be launching in the spring, that will be the next big one. Then there are a couple of smaller ones just below 200 meters starting soon as well, E Condos will start construction soon (194 meters) and 1 Yorkville is going to launch soon and actually has a good chance of being upgraded to 200 meters.

caltrane74 · #**9329** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 1:45 AM**

Sad, Sad News with regards to Massey Tower.

from interchage at UT

Quote:

I've been in touch with a number of people about this today.

In fact the building is being held up for the moment by an appeal at the OMB, brought on behalf of the off-shore owners of 205 Yonge Street, which is the vacant Bank of Toronto building immediately to the north. The owners have never had a tenant in their building, and they have allowed it to deteriorate—much to the concern of the Ontario Heritage Trust who hold the Heritage Easement Agreement on the property.

It's probably financially-motivated. I don't see their objection having any planning merit.

MOD is trying to arrange a hearing as soon as possible so that both they and Massey Hall can proceed with their projects. That probably means a few months.

So, patience is required on this now!

Could be held up a couple of months while this works it way through the OMB.

Here is photo of the building in question....

From http://www.blogto.com

The owner of the building, has allowed it to deteriorate, and only seems to care now, that the Massey Tower is going up right next to it.

from thestar.ca

WhipperSnapper · #**9330** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 2:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

its under construction by the Canada section rules, not the main board rules. the Canada section definition of construction is much more realistic. Its why 10 York is under construction now as well. 12k unit sales is still perfectly fine. A 200m tower is typically around 700 units, so they can still fly in the market. 460 Yonge (Y+C Condos) will be launching in the spring, that will be the next big one. Then there are a couple of smaller ones just below 200 meters starting soon as well, E Condos will start construction soon (194 meters) and 1 Yorkville is going to launch soon and actually has a good chance of being upgraded to 200 meters.

5 to 10 percent of total sales in Toronto going to one project would be outstanding. If these forecast come true, we'll definitely see much longer sales periods and developers contemplating proceeding with smaller scaled projects over the larger ones. I don't see it though. They'll drop the prices by up to ten precent and we'll see line-ups out the door again. This market is staged for a massive bust and not a moderate slow down.

Innsertnamehere · #**9331** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 3:22 AM**

Menkes managed to successfully sell the two Harbour plaza buildings this year, which saw around 13,000 unit sales IIRC. 1100 units hit the market in a single development and has essentially reached 80% sales.

WhipperSnapper · #**9332** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 3:59 AM**

13, 000 for this year seems very hard to believe. Harbour Plaza is also still in the registration phase

Gresto · #**9333** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 4:50 AM**

And yet the two are under construction along with the office component, or is that not known yet?

caltrane74 · #**9334** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 4:56 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gresto

And yet the two are under construction along with the office component, or is that not known yet?

All Three towers should be above ground level in the next couple of weeks....

travis3000 · #**9335** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 5:20 AM**

Yep, a nice 535ft glass office tower with a 735ft condo tower and a 765ft condo tower. This project is going to be a skyline game changer. Just beside it we have 10 York (another 735ft tower) going up.

By the time all four buildings are topped out in 3 years, Southcore will be home to five towers exceeding 200m (ICE I, ICE II, Ten York, Harbour Plaza E, Harbour Plaza W). Plus another two 150m+ towers (Delta, One York). Is Maple Leaf Square Southcore as well? If so, make that four 150m+ towers. Add in the ever expanding Cityplace with the two 60+ storey Signature towers being built by 2020 and potentially the 4-6 tower behemoth One Yonge project and the trip down the Gardener will be one of the most impressive drives anywhere in the world for skyscraper geeks. It's already impressive, give it another 5-10 years and it will be mind blowing.

uzi · #**9336** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 6:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Sad, Sad News with regards to Massey Tower.

from interchage at UT

Could be held up a couple of months while this works it way through the OMB.

Here is photo of the building in question....

From http://www.blogto.com

The owner of the building, has allowed it to deteriorate, and only seems to care now, that the Massey Tower is going up right next to it.

from thestar.ca

which one of these two old one is massey hall

Ramako · #**9337** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 6:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzi

which one of these two old one is massey hall

Neither. Massey Hall is on the northeast corner of the block.

Innsertnamehere · #**9338** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 6:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

13, 000 for this year seems very hard to believe. Harbour Plaza is also still in the registration phase

No it's not. One tower launched in July and by the time the second launched in late September it had hit over 80% sales. They sold very well. It's the same with 365 church and aqualina, there were several very successful projects this year.

Looking at the sales numbers for the towers, i see no reason for them to not continue with them by the time construction reaches that point.

Gresto · #**9339** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 7:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

All Three towers should be above ground level in the next couple of weeks....

No, but what I meant was, are they actually proceeding with the full construction of the two condo towers before sales have even started, or are they capping the condos provisionally and erecting only the office building? Apart from speculation, I don't think I have heard anything that specifically addresses that question.

Edit: apparently answered by Insertnamehere.

WhipperSnapper · #**9340** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 3:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

No it's not. One tower launched in July and by the time the second launched in late September it had hit over 80% sales. They sold very well. It's the same with 365 church and aqualina, there were several very successful projects this year.

Looking at the sales numbers for the towers, i see no reason for them to not continue with them by the time construction reaches that point.

By all accounts, it and most others were private launches to investors/vips hence my absolutely hilarious remark.