[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed - Page 188

teddifax · #**3741** Posted **Dec 30, 2013, 6:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ns_kid

Lydon Lynch is requesting an amendent to the TD Centre development agreement to allow for a pedway connection to the proposed 22 Commerce Square project across Granville Street.

http://22ndcommercesquare.ca/default.asp?mn=1.44

This is a positive development; in fact, I believe HRM should insist on provision for pedway connections in any new project.

Which brings us to Nova Centre. As far as I can tell, no plans yet presented for Nova Centre include any indoor connection to the rest of the downtown link system, even though the link-connected Prince George Hotel is just across Prince Street. (I expect linking Nova Centre through the Prince George would require significant renovations to the hotel.) There may also be an opportunity to extend the link to the Marriott Residence and/or Cambridge Suites hotels and possibly Neptune Theatre across Sackville Street.

Anyone have different information? There certainly does not seem to be any allowance for underground connections in the subgrade work now underway.

When this project comes back to regional council for final approval in the new year, I hope the downtown link question is something councillors will ensure is addressed fully.

I think wherever possible the downtown link system should be a no-brainer for any new development in the downtown core. As each new building gets a connection, it enables any further development to also get connected. Maybe the extra tax on hotels could go towards this. I have always though this should be one of the requirements of any new development in the core. For conventions especially this is crucial as anyone attending an event there would much prefer not having to take along jackets (and boots, etc.). I hope HRM council adds this as one of the criteria/requirements of any new development.

ILoveHalifax · #**3742** Posted **Dec 30, 2013, 7:25 PM**

I would think the developer of the Nova Center would not be too anxious to make it easy for delegates to stay at an off site hotel.

Duff · #**3743** Posted **Dec 30, 2013, 8:41 PM**

Two from today

Aya_Akai · #**3744** Posted **Dec 31, 2013, 5:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff

Two from today

7 or 8 years ago never did I think I would EVER see anything like that in Downtown Halifax

ns_kid · #**3745** Posted **Dec 31, 2013, 9:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

I would think the developer of the Nova Center would not be too anxious to make it easy for delegates to stay at an off site hotel.

I want to believe that Mr. Ramia is more far-sighted than that. But that's why it's council's responsibility to protect the broader interest.

FuzzyWuz · #**3746** Posted **Dec 31, 2013, 2:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

I would think the developer of the Nova Center would not be too anxious to make it easy for delegates to stay at an off site hotel.

I think a decision made on that basis would be self destructive. Making the place less accessible is just bad for the whole development.

beyeas · #**3747** Posted **Jan 2, 2014, 6:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ns_kid

I want to believe that Mr. Ramia is more far-sighted than that. But that's why it's council's responsibility to protect the broader interest.

Given the size of conference that they are now looking to attract with the new centre, it is a requirement that it be well connected with other infrastructure and hotels. In fact, even aside from the fact that the hotel couldn't accommodate the people they are looking to attract, the reality of conference organizing is that you need to be able to offer hotels in a range of budgets. There is no way you can base a convention centre on trying to limit access to other hotels.

MonctonRad · #**3748** Posted **Jan 2, 2014, 7:46 PM**

Exactly Beyeas. I know that you were in Chicago last month for the RSNA, and a megaconference like that wouldn't be able to exist in Chicago unless all the hotels in the core were recruited to host attendees.

halifaxboyns · #**3749** Posted **Jan 2, 2014, 10:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Exactly Beyeas. I know that you were in Chicago last month for the RSNA, and a megaconference like that wouldn't be able to exist in Chicago unless all the hotels in the core were recruited to host attendees.

Agreed - I went to the American Planning Association conference held in Chicago, which was held at the Hyatt downtown (they have a big conference centre as part of it) and there were at least 4 other hotels people were staying at near by because the Hyatt booked up quickly. Myself and a few others stayed at the Sheraton across the river and would walk over - wasn't pleasant when it was rainy, but it was okay.

worldlyhaligonian · #**3750** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 1:28 PM**

Bingo. This has been one of the lies of the opponents... when the reality is that many hotels will be needed aside from the NC to host everyone and in varying budgets.

They wanted us to all believe that there would be too much capacity, when the opposite is likely, especially in the summer months.

Now, if they had used their typical "it will make the city too busy" argument, that would have worked... but the goal is to make downtown more busy!

Keith P. · #**3751** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 7:18 PM**

Bernie Smith always used to contend that there was a need for a large (400-500 room) hotel downtown that could accommodate large events, with large ballrooms and significant kitchen capacity, that would handle major events. Perhaps Nova Center will address this.

halifaxboyns · #**3752** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 10:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Bernie Smith always used to contend that there was a need for a large (400-500 room) hotel downtown that could accommodate large events, with large ballrooms and significant kitchen capacity, that would handle major events. Perhaps Nova Center will address this.

I remember him talking about that - hopefully it will. I'm part of an organization that is planning a major conference in Edmonton for 2015 and we are looking to get about 400 people going. Since we will be using the Shaw Convention Centre, that will mean booking rooms at the Westin, the Fairmont and likely the Marriott in order to cover everyone.

I'm looking at going to the Canadian Institute of Planners conference in Fredericton in July; which they are doing at the Fredericton Convention centre. There is no word on the specific hotels, but likely the Crowne Plaza and the Delta will be the two major ones since most of our conferences tend to attract around 800 to 1000 delegates.

I'd love to see a world Planners Congress happen again and be in Halifax. The one in Vancouver had about 3,000 delegates - was amazing. The American Planning Association conferences typically attract 3-5,000. How the Chicago Hyatt managed to handle all of us - amazing.

counterfactual · #**3753** Posted **Jan 3, 2014, 11:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Bingo. This has been one of the lies of the opponents... when the reality is that many hotels will be needed aside from the NC to host everyone and in varying budgets.

They wanted us to all believe that there would be too much capacity, when the opposite is likely, especially in the summer months.

Now, if they had used their typical "it will make the city too busy" argument, that would have worked... but the goal is to make downtown more busy!

Totally. The anti-development crowd, and their hero Phil Pacey, love trotting out the same tired old studies, often from years ago, about how any new developments (commercial or residential) would completely swallow demand for 30 years!

But then, reality keeps getting in the way. The very same thing was said about the King's Wharf development, and there, they had sold 3/4 of all units before the first two towers were built.

Build it and they will come.

Empire · #**3754** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 12:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

I would think the developer of the Nova Center would not be too anxious to make it easy for delegates to stay at an off site hotel.

It's really too bad there isn't a plan to connect to the Prince George which in turn would connect the entire downtown to the Nova Centre. Yes there would be some reconfiguration involved but I think HRM should have brokered a connection from the Nova Centre to the downtown pedway system.

ILoveHalifax · #**3755** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 12:44 AM**

I cannot remember ever attending any trade show or convention where off site hotels were connected to the convention place. Just one of the reasons to book early and pay extra for the best room(s).
It might be nice for some who want to pay less but it's really all about business as far as hotel/convention centers are concerned.

teddifax · #**3756** Posted **Jan 4, 2014, 11:24 PM**

No matter what, I believe there should be a condition on development downtown, wherever possible to connect to the downtown link. If the Nova Centre links up then it would be easier for any other developments to hook up as they happen. It would be great to have the new Roy and Discovery Ctr projects linked as well, if just to allow people to get around downtown without having to brave bad weather.

someone123 · #**3757** Posted **Jan 5, 2014, 12:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by teddifax

No matter what, I believe there should be a condition on development downtown, wherever possible to connect to the downtown link. If the Nova Centre links up then it would be easier for any other developments to hook up as they happen. It would be great to have the new Roy and Discovery Ctr projects linked as well, if just to allow people to get around downtown without having to brave bad weather.

There are downsides to developing pedways. They break up pedestrian traffic, making it harder to have retail along the streets, they can be unsightly and cause problems for larger vehicles, and they are private rather than public. If they were mandated for every major new building downtown I don't think the results would actually be that great.

Keith P. · #**3758** Posted **Jan 5, 2014, 12:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by teddifax

No matter what, I believe there should be a condition on development downtown, wherever possible to connect to the downtown link. If the Nova Centre links up then it would be easier for any other developments to hook up as they happen. It would be great to have the new Roy and Discovery Ctr projects linked as well, if just to allow people to get around downtown without having to brave bad weather.

The problem is that the Link as currently constructed is a terrible mishmash of things. It starts in the basement level of the Prince George so there is no direct outside access to it. It takes you to the main level of the WTCC which is fine, but you then have to go down stairs or elevator to the lower level to continue on. Then there is an escalator to take you under Duke Street before you are brought into Scotia Mall. You wander through there then have to go up some stairs to cross Barrington. Then you are into Barrington Place. From there you can take the long stroll to Purdy's and the Casino without much interruption, but it you want to go to the CIBC or TD buildings there is another escalator. It is very poorly designed.

counterfactual · #**3759** Posted **Jan 5, 2014, 1:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The problem is that the Link as currently constructed is a terrible mishmash of things. It starts in the basement level of the Prince George so there is no direct outside access to it. It takes you to the main level of the WTCC which is fine, but you then have to go down stairs or elevator to the lower level to continue on. Then there is an escalator to take you under Duke Street before you are brought into Scotia Mall. You wander through there then have to go up some stairs to cross Barrington. Then you are into Barrington Place. From there you can take the long stroll to Purdy's and the Casino without much interruption, but it you want to go to the CIBC or TD buildings there is another escalator. It is very poorly designed.

At the very least, they could have better signage (typical problem in this city). I wouldn't know the things you described there, and I've used the darn thing often enough.

ILoveHalifax · #**3760** Posted **Jan 5, 2014, 2:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by teddifax

No matter what, I believe there should be a condition on development downtown, wherever possible to connect to the downtown link. If the Nova Centre links up then it would be easier for any other developments to hook up as they happen. It would be great to have the new Roy and Discovery Ctr projects linked as well, if just to allow people to get around downtown without having to brave bad weather.

The cost of the pedway system can be quite high for a developer. For example from Nova Center to The Roy would require escalators down several levels to get to the Roy entrance on Granville St. Security would also be an issue to limit access to the condos.