Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Cheers elly - no thanks required though.

Actually, our company are helping provide financial advice to one of the bidders for the Regina stadium. Unfortunately the folder is restricted to a few personnel of which I am not one.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

One of the big concerns with THF is the fact they haven't even started installing the seats yet, and that appears to be at least a couple months away

Seeing as things have gone a little quiet lately, thought I'd post a few conversation starters.

About the seats at THF, I just came across an old post on the Edmonton seat installation. I know we can't do exact comparisons and schedules differ, but...Edmonton was installing an average of 2,500 new seats per week at Commonwealth Stadium. So that gives the Hamilton guys about two and a half months (or less) to install the 22.5k seats at THF. This just gives us a point of reference and is not meant to be accurate.

And seeing as tomorrow should be a classic NHL Winter Classic, here's a comment from an interview with one of the REDBLACKS owners Jeff Hunt.

"What's on our minds and we just have to get the CFL to think the same way -- 2017 is Canada's 150th birthday. There are already thoughts of the (NHL) Winter Classic being in Ottawa that year. To host the Grey Cup, you'd have to add additional temporary seating. Wouldn't it be nice to build the extra seating and keep it up for a Winter Classic?"

[FrankieFlowerpot]

It's the Leafs 100th anniversary in 2017 as well I believe - they are definitely going to be making a pitch for an outdoor game


Edit: I see there was men working at THF yesterday

[esquire]

Originally Posted by elly63

And seeing as tomorrow should be a classic NHL Winter Classic, here's a comment from an interview with one of the REDBLACKS owners Jeff Hunt.

"What's on our minds and we just have to get the CFL to think the same way -- 2017 is Canada's 150th birthday. There are already thoughts of the (NHL) Winter Classic being in Ottawa that year. To host the Grey Cup, you'd have to add additional temporary seating. Wouldn't it be nice to build the extra seating and keep it up for a Winter Classic?"

That's what Winnipeg will likely be doing... the Jets and Bombers will partner in putting up extra seats at IGF which will go up in time for the Banjo Bowl and remain up for the Grey Cup and then the Heritage Classic.

It makes good sense as it allows the teams to dramatically reduce the costs involved in staging such an event (making them that much more lucrative), and it's good for the fans in that it provides a great array of attractions.

This model could work in Winnipeg, Calgary and Ottawa which are the three cities with both a NHL team and a CFL stadium that can be expanded.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

It's the Leafs 100th anniversary in 2017 as well I believe - they are definitely going to be making a pitch for an outdoor game


Edit: I see there was men working at THF yesterday

I wonder how much longer fans will continue to go crazy for outdoor games? I have to say I don't see the attraction personally... pay dramatically inflated prices for terrible sightlines and often miserably cold conditions? No thanks.

The original one in Edmonton was something special, but since then it has become not much more than a cash grab by the NHL.

[osmo]

For the Leafs, Rogers Centre does not make sense for an outdoor game. It has a closed roof policy after October and it has wonky seating since it's a multi-purpose. You get the same issue at the Ballparks in the States, but the unique factor of playing hockey at Fenway, Dodger Stadium, etc trumps that all. Not sure the plan in BC, but even if the roof is closed due to rain there is enough natural light to give the illusion it's outside.

MLSE owns BMO so they would be the obvious venue but it's a tin-shed and isn't up to par to host such a grand scale event. The Leafs went all in with this Winter Classic in Michigan. Both the Wings and Leafs tossed a lot of resources at this event as they were probably the only two markets that could fill a 100K seat facility. It's a 3-way operation between the league and the two teams and all sides will get some good coin out of it.

The Leafs will push for the All-star game that year of their 100th, they have no adequate place to host a outdoor game unless it's at THF in Hamilton...

[FrankieFlowerpot]

You just called BMO a "tin-shed" but Tim Hortons Field would be acceptable?

Anyways - MLSE are pumping $100million into improving BMO Field - there's no doubt it will be there

[Le-TanK-]

I assume the agros are most likely ending up at BMO field then?

BTW, I think that's a wise choice.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

You just called BMO a "tin-shed" but Tim Hortons Field would be acceptable?

Anyways - MLSE are pumping $100million into improving BMO Field - there's no doubt it will be there

BMO is a tin shed even when compared to Tim Hortons Field. THF will be double the cost with pretty well the same number of seats.

I'd bet money MLSE will not put $100 million into BMO - they will be looking for a substantial government handout to pay for the improvements/expansion... and they will get it once an agreement is in place for the Argos to share the facility with Toronto FC.

[GernB]

THF and Lansdowne are cheap pieces of —, undersized and built on a shoestring. Winnipeg and Regina can afford great venues but the Ontario cities can't pull it off? Both Hamilton and Ottawa will be crying for more seats the day after their stadiums open. The lack of forward thinking in these cities is absolutely amazing to me.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/does-mlse-want-to-buy-bring-argos-to-bmo-field/

The future home of the Toronto Argonauts may very well be BMO Field after all.

Amidst Tim Leiweke’s revelation to Sportsnet colleague Chris Johnston of a future outdoor hockey game being staged at the stadium, the head of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment (MLSE) also suggested a renovation of the grounds would make a renovated BMO capable of hosting a future CFL championship game.

"The Grey Cup, I think, would be phenomenal in an outdoor setting in Toronto, on the lake," Leiweke told Johnston Tuesday.

David Braley has publicly stated he is looking to sell his full ownership into both the Argonauts and B.C. Lions by 2016.

MLSE has been linked, in recent months, to having interest in buying the Argonauts, but each time the suggestion was brushed aside as being too premature. CFL sources told Sportsnet that privately, Argos executives were hoping a scenario would unfold where MLSE would purchase the franchise.

The Canadian Football League would not address the matter Tuesday evening, other than to say there is no deal done to sell the Argos and that the CFL "will not comment on speculation around ownership."

The league declined to make commissioner Mark Cohon available for an interview.

Cohon continued to mention a potential partnership with MLSE throughout Grey Cup week in Regina. And both the Argos and league office have made it clear they are searching for a new, permanent home. The Argonauts’ present lease with Rogers Centre expires in 2017, although the football club has an opt-out clause to leave the building prior to that date.

Rogers Centre and the Blue Jays have already started investigating different methods to change the building’s playing surface from Astroturf to natural grass, which, effectively, put the Argonauts on the clock to find a new home by 2017.

The declaration of football on MLSE’s radar is somewhat of an about-face from Leiweke, who in November told Sportsnet’s Damien Cox that the organization’s priority with the stadium was elsewhere.

"Our first focus has been and continue to be how we fix BMO Field for soccer," Leiweke told Cox during Grey Cup week. "That has to be highest priority. We have to make it better than it is for soccer. We can’t ask our fans to sacrifice their views or their environment.

"Our soccer fans get mad at us when this football thing comes up, and we are not going to declare war on our fans."

Leiweke did not elaborate with Johnston on what a possible renovation would mean for Toronto FC, nor if BMO Field’s status as Canada’s "national soccer stadium" would be affected. Its surface is presently natural grass, with only soccer lines. In addition to the "views" and "environment" Leiweke referenced, soccer supporters are steadfast that grass remain.

Regardless, an upgrade of the magnitude Leiweke has described requires a sizeable financial investment that the CFL would be unwilling to finance. It may not be required for the league to do so. Leiweke told Johnston that MLSE has already lobbied all three levels of government to help fund the "hundreds of millions" of dollars estimated to upgrade BMO. That figure is significantly more than the original cost of the building, along Toronto’s lakeshore on the city’s exhibition grounds, which was $62.9 million back in 2007.

Leiweke suggested that critical in making the renovation to BMO Field a reality is an assurance from the NHL that Toronto would host a Winter Classic there. Leiweke told Johnston that MLSE’s hope is to host the Winter Classic in conjunction with the 100th anniversary of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

BMO Field’s present configurations do not allow for Canadian football to be played, because of the dimensions of the field and stadium. Part of any transformation to the facility would require that to be modified, which itself carries a significant price tag.

[thurmas]

It seems pretty much now a lock the Argos move to BMO. It will be very interesting to see what kind of a design a renovated BMO Field looks like if they are considering making it expandable for Grey Cup hosting capabilities.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by osmo

MLSE owns BMO so they would be the obvious venue but it's a tin-shed and isn't up to par to host such a grand scale event. The Leafs went all in with this Winter Classic in Michigan. Both the Wings and Leafs tossed a lot of resources at this event as they were probably the only two markets that could fill a 100K seat facility. It's a 3-way operation between the league and the two teams and all sides will get some good coin out of it.

The Leafs will push for the All-star game that year of their 100th, they have no adequate place to host a outdoor game unless it's at THF in Hamilton...

The City of Toronto owns BMO Field, not MLSE. MLSE has a 20 year contract to operate/manage the stadium, which expires at the end of 2027.

[GernB]

Don't expect anything resembling the truth or reality from Damien Cox. The man bends over for Rogers every chance he gets. He is nothing but an apologist for the NFL in Toronto. A CFL hater to the core. He and Bob McCown are just propagandists for Rogers.

[thurmas]

The article was by Arash Madani not Cox or McCown.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by esquire

I wonder how much longer fans will continue to go crazy for outdoor games? I have to say I don't see the attraction personally... pay dramatically inflated prices for terrible sightlines and often miserably cold conditions? No thanks.

The original one in Edmonton was something special, but since then it has become not much more than a cash grab by the NHL.

There's definitely a market for them. People like going to events that transcend sport. When it becomes more than just a game and it becomes a spectacle, you've increased your target market considerably. The NFL and US college football figured that out decades ago.

Even some Canadian university teams like Saskatchewan, Montreal, and Laval are doing it with fabulous results. I certainly don't attend just for the football game. I go to hear the band, see the co-ed cheer teams do their stunts, go to the pep rally, tailgate, sing the fight song, etc. These things are almost more important than the actual game.

I'm honestly shocked that an entrenched prosperous league like the NHL with lots of smart marketing types at their disposal took so long to clue in. If you add to the mix some franchises that are completely out of reach to many people (the Leafs) and it's an opportunity to connect with a whole segment of the population that wouldn't ever go to a game.

I will never go see the Leafs @ the ACC, but I'd consider going if it were in an open air stadium with 100,000 people showing up. The atmosphere alone is worth the price of admission. It's not like you can see much in a 20,000 seat arena any way. Only the first 15 rows afford anything resembling a good vantage point.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by isaidso

There's definitely a market for them. People like going to events that transcend sport. When it becomes more than just a game and it becomes a spectacle, you've increased your target market considerably. The NFL and US college football figured that out decades ago.

Even some Canadian university teams like Saskatchewan, Montreal, and Laval are doing it with fabulous results. I certainly don't attend just for the football game. I go to hear the band, see the co-ed cheer teams do their stunts, go to the pep rally, tailgate, sing the fight song, etc. These things are almost more important than the actual game.

I'm honestly shocked that an entrenched prosperous league like the NHL with lots of smart marketing types at their disposal took so long to clue in. If you add to the mix some franchises that are completely out of reach to many people (the Leafs) and it's an opportunity to connect with a whole segment of the population that wouldn't ever go to a game.

I will never go see the Leafs @ the ACC, but I'd consider going if it were in an open air stadium with 100,000 people showing up. The atmosphere alone is worth the price of admission. It's not like you can see much in a 20,000 seat arena any way. Only the first 15 rows afford anything resembling a good vantage point.

Only the first 15 rows are good vantage points? —? Leave your granny glasses at home did you?

As for the ACC yes it's a generic new Arena, But I had the chance to see the Leafs at Maple Leaf Gardens, and will never ever forget that experience.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Only the first 15 rows are good vantage points? —? Leave your granny glasses at home did you?

As for the ACC yes it's a generic new Arena, But I had the chance to see the Leafs at Maple Leaf Gardens, and will never ever forget that experience.

Whatever. My eye doctor, who I saw 10 months ago, says my eye sight is fine and I don't wear glasses or contacts. You're talking to someone used to watching college basketball within 15 feet of the court so I'm a bit spoiled. 99% of the hockey I see is recreational hockey so I'm in one of the first 10 rows.

If I'm further back than 15 rows, I feel too far removed. What's another 100,000 people?

[GernB]

Originally Posted by thurmas

The article was by Arash Madani not Cox or McCown.

My apologies, but still a Rogers drone.

[esquire]

The stadium situation that is emerging in Toronto is weird.

The existing 1980s multipurpose stadium will effectively become baseball only, at least for the half-year that baseball season runs.

During that time, there will then be no large stadium suitable for football, soccer or other large events. A gussied-up BMO Stadium, which is something you might expect to see in a city maybe 1/10 the size of Toronto, will serve as the venue for those sports, except for the occasional Bills game or Grey Cup which will still take place at Skydome.

Bizarre.