PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[summersm343]

About the Gallery and Girard Square block

Owner and developer PREIT (Pennsylvania Real Estate Investment Trust), which recently finished acquiring all the parcels of land that the Gallery sits on, is promising big news for the mall sometime early next year. CEO Joseph Coradino has promised a major renovation that will open the mammoth stretch of concrete with windows to the street, and “transformative” new anchor stores.

New development is also promised across the street on the Girard Estate’s property, which spans the entire city block between 11th and 12th and Market and Chestnut Streets. The block was recently purchased from the City Board of Trusts opening that to new projects.

http://axisphilly.org/article/center-citys-retail-revival/

[MikeNigh]

Originally Posted by summersm343

About the Gallery and Girard Square block
http://axisphilly.org/article/center-citys-retail-revival/

"Retail rents have gone up 33.8 percent in the past year, the steepest rise for retail rent in downtown shopping districts among cities anywhere in the country. Just as important, the average annual income for all these people now living in Center City has crested $100,000 per household – a tipping point for national retailers."

[christof]

Interview with John Fry.

Good Stuff.

http://hiddencityphila.org/2013/12/drexe...schools-uchs-the-culture-of-moving-fast/

And a Merry Christmas for those who celebrate it...

[CentralGrad258]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

The wage tax probably would not be the sole reason, but it would certainly be part of the conversation for someone in my position who lives in the city (far northeast) and works outside.

As I mentioned previously, its more about what you get for what you pay. A middle class family paying wage/real estate tax living in the Northeast is getting less than the surrounding suburbs, mainly due to the failed Philadelphia School System.

In the end I understand its about personal preference and the relevance of "how much" someone is actually paying in taxes.

I agree that this conversation/debate has been cordial. If there have been inappropriate post, those should be addressed individually.

It may be my bias, since I grew up in the far Northeast, but if you work outside of the city, I really see no point of living there. It always struck me as the worst of both worlds. Not really walkable, not especially urban and not really as nice as the surrounding suburbs. Unless you have some deep personal connection there, I'm not sure why you'd stay.

Ofcourse it's done pretty well to this day, which means there are obviously people who prefer to live there. To each his own, but I'm a huge Philly fanboy, but I wouldn't want to live in Northeast and pay city wage if I didn't actually work in the city.

[Capsule F]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Let me give a common example. Charlotte has 0% income tax. People move just across the border to SC which has extremely low property taxes (this would be like someone working in Philly but living in Camden as it's a lake that separates Charlotte from SC). The result is very low tax burden and a very strong, fast growing middle class in that area. This is one of the many reasons why states like NC or cities like Charlotte have become places with rapid population booms.

All I'm doing is giving one example. Charlotte has a very large middle class living inside of it. Philly has a much larger working class with a smaller middle class (by comparison) than many other cities. The crime, public education, and taxes are what drive upper middle income families out of the city. It's the combination of those factors that have the impact...it's not simply one or the other causes the middle class to leave.

I was under the impression that a large amount of the finance jobs dried up during the great recession. Doesn't that place have a shadow of the finance jobs it used to have? Also it doesn't seem to be remotely urban.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

I was under the impression that a large amount of the finance jobs dried up during the great recession. Doesn't that place have a shadow of the finance jobs it used to have? Also it doesn't seem to be remotely urban.

It was hit hard by the recession, but the jobs are back and they've diversified the job market. It's more urban than most sunbelt cities. Uptown and Southend are great with plenty of culture. It's not nearly as urban or developed as Philly though. Most importantly is the cost of living and friendly environment towards middle class families.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by CentralGrad258

It may be my bias, since I grew up in the far Northeast, but if you work outside of the city, I really see no point of living there. It always struck me as the worst of both worlds. Not really walkable, not especially urban and not really as nice as the surrounding suburbs. Unless you have some deep personal connection there, I'm not sure why you'd stay.

Ofcourse it's done pretty well to this day, which means there are obviously people who prefer to live there. To each his own, but I'm a huge Philly fanboy, but I wouldn't want to live in Northeast and pay city wage if I didn't actually work in the city.

I agree with you. I grew up, graduated, bought a house, got married and worked in the far northeast, until recently.

I am one of those with a family planning to move out of the city as my kids get older. Primary reason is schools.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

I was under the impression that a large amount of the finance jobs dried up during the great recession. Doesn't that place have a shadow of the finance jobs it used to have? Also it doesn't seem to be remotely urban.

I can tell you a lot about Charlotte, as my company has a large presence there and I go down there for work. It can't be compared to Philly of course, as they are really apples and oranges for numerous reasons. But for what ScreamShatter is looking for, it would definitely be a good place to be.

There is a lot about Charlotte I like but it completely dies at night, and that bothered me...I am a night owl and I am so used to being able to do many things until pretty late at night if I so desire. In some parts of the city and inner ring 'burbs I didn't pass another car for miles on major roads after 10:30 P.M., and that was a little odd for me. But as one gets older and/or has a family, this probably wouldn't matter. And one exciting thing about Charlotte is that it is still growing and finding itself, and this is changing (years ago when I was there it was even worse, so I am seeing the change).


Wrestling with how to revitalize LOVE Park - and how to pay for it

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politi...w_to_pay_for_it.html#TG1gW1fGw73y6MHV.99

[Cro Burnham]

*sigh*

I can't wait until this philly vs suburbs topic dies. Boring.

Yes, wage tax an irritation to all and a dealbreaker for some who are not particularly attached to this city. Is there really that much more to say about this?

Yes, public schools here like in most big cities on average 🞵🞵🞵🞵 compared to average nearby suburban public schools. Big problem for all cities with many poor people, not just Philly. So many middle class people with families understandably leave cities. The public school situation in philly is actually much better now than when i was a kid. So many more young middle class families are willing to give cities, and Philly, a try.

But it's not complicated: few middle class people want their kids in schools with large percentage of kids from poor families. Poor people tend to be corraled in cities and dominate many urban schools. It's simply another symptom of our national dysfunction associated with relating the poor and everyone else.

It's a national problem, not just a Philly problem.

Why must we take pages of the Philly thread to discuss a problem that will never be resolved at the local level? Seems like a topic much better suited for the "City Discussion" section. There you will find people Chicago, NY, Boston, Miami, DC, etc., with the same problems. City schools 🞵🞵🞵🞵 because that's where the poor go to "school". No one anywhere wants to send their kids to school with lots of poor people. Sad but true.

I wish we could talk about buildings here, though..

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

*sigh*

I can't wait until this philly vs suburbs topic dies. Boring.

Yes, wage tax an irritation to all and a dealbreaker for some who are not particularly attached to this city. Is there really that much more to say about this?

Yes, public schools here like in most big cities on average 🞵🞵🞵🞵 compared to average nearby suburban public schools. Big problem for all cities with many poor people, not just Philly. So many middle class people with families understandably leave cities. The public school situation in philly is actually much better now than when i was a kid. So many more young middle class families are willing to give cities, and Philly, a try.

But it's not complicated: few middle class people want their kids in schools with large percentage of kids from poor families. Poor people tend to be corraled in cities and dominate many urban schools. It's simply another symptom of our national dysfunction associated with relating the poor and everyone else.

It's a national problem, not just a Philly problem.

Why must we take pages of the Philly thread to discuss a problem that will never be resolved at the local level? Seems like a topic much better suited for the "City Discussion" section. There you will find people Chicago, NY, Boston, Miami, DC, etc., with the same problems. City schools 🞵🞵🞵🞵 because that's where the poor go to "school". No one anywhere wants to send their kids to school with lots of poor people. Sad but true.

I wish we could talk about buildings here, though..

Right, the topic is so "boring" that you dedicated a few well thought out paragraphs to it?!? Like it or not it is a real problem HERE and directly effects development, future projects, etc. You're correct in saying that poor schools are not just a Philly problem *however*, each of those cities you mentioned have issues unique to themselves that you will not find in Philly and vice versa. In some ways urban American can be compared across the board but in some ways, it cannot be.

We do talk about buildings here, but how many times can someone say "Oh I like that design!" or "I hate it, I wish it was better!" for each and every project?!? I think this thread is fantastic and it has a healthy mix of specific project discussions and big picture discussions as well. I learn a lot from the posters here and I am hoping that they can learn a lot from me too...and overall I feel as if the latest conversations have been very civil as well.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

*sigh*

I can't wait until this philly vs suburbs topic dies. Boring.

Yes, wage tax an irritation to all and a dealbreaker for some who are not particularly attached to this city. Is there really that much more to say about this?

Yes, public schools here like in most big cities on average 🞵🞵🞵🞵 compared to average nearby suburban public schools. Big problem for all cities with many poor people, not just Philly. So many middle class people with families understandably leave cities. The public school situation in philly is actually much better now than when i was a kid. So many more young middle class families are willing to give cities, and Philly, a try.

But it's not complicated: few middle class people want their kids in schools with large percentage of kids from poor families. Poor people tend to be corraled in cities and dominate many urban schools. It's simply another symptom of our national dysfunction associated with relating the poor and everyone else.

It's a national problem, not just a Philly problem.

Why must we take pages of the Philly thread to discuss a problem that will never be resolved at the local level? Seems like a topic much better suited for the "City Discussion" section. There you will find people Chicago, NY, Boston, Miami, DC, etc., with the same problems. City schools 🞵🞵🞵🞵 because that's where the poor go to "school". No one anywhere wants to send their kids to school with lots of poor people. Sad but true.

I wish we could talk about buildings here, though..

Well then stay out of the topic if it bores you. Real simple.

[Philly-Drew]

A few pages back, there was talk about another Comcast building. I'm anxious to get more details on that. Does anyone have any further word on that?

[Larry King]

My opinion:

you leave for the burbs ... go to hell

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

A few pages back, there was talk about another Comcast building. I'm anxious to get more details on that. Does anyone have any further word on that?

I thought this page was about suburbs, Charlotte, public urban schools, and wage taxes. Not sure this is the right place to discuss skyscrapers in Philadelphia.

[Philly-Drew]

Relnahe, you made me laugh man. Hehe.

[Jelly Roll]

JakeL at Philadelphia Speaks posted a thread about a possible Aloft hotel at 101-9 N Broad St. Anybody hear any news about this? The original post is http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/forum/center-city/39252-scoop-aloft-hotel-coming-center-city.html

[Pennsgrant]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

JakeL at Philadelphia Speaks posted a thread about a possible Aloft hotel at 101-9 N Broad St. Anybody hear any news about this? The original post is http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/forum/center-city/39252-scoop-aloft-hotel-coming-center-city.html

I believe reconstructing that building into a hotel was part of Realens brand new Garage deal at 13th + Arch across from Convention Center. You want to build a grage? OK then you have to fix this old dilapidated building into a hotel- typeof deal. Here it is a year or 2 later and no hotel by Realen which isn't shocking to me.

This is the guy that was supposed to build The Village at Valley Forge and Uptown Worthington, both have been scaled back or aborted.

http://www.dasarchitects.com/in-design.html

Was snooping around trying to find some info on the Pearl Properties new residential project at 19th + Chestnut. Cheked DAS's architect website(did the Granary) to see if they had anything on their site about it. But to no avail. But they did have this project near Franklin Square - RaceStreet?.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by Pennsgrant

I believe reconstructing that building into a hotel was part of Realens brand new Garage deal at 13th + Arch across from Convention Center. You want to build a grage? OK then you have to fix this old dilapidated building into a hotel- typeof deal. Here it is a year or 2 later and no hotel by Realen which isn't shocking to me.

This is the guy that was supposed to build The Village at Valley Forge and Uptown Worthington, both have been scaled back or aborted.

http://www.dasarchitects.com/in-design.html

Was snooping around trying to find some info on the Pearl Properties new residential project at 19th + Chestnut. Cheked DAS's architect website(did the Granary) to see if they had anything on their site about it. But to no avail. But they did have this project near Franklin Square - RaceStreet?.

Pretty sure that's the 4th and race hotel that will never happen

[tsarstruck]

PhillyMag and Allan Domb speculate that we might be slightly over-building:

http://www.phillymag.com/property/2013/12/26/high-rent-district/

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

PhillyMag and Allan Domb speculate that we might be slightly over-building:

http://www.phillymag.com/property/2013/12/26/high-rent-district/

I really don't see how 4,000 units over a couple years in a city of more than 1.5 million and an occupancy rate of 96% is overbuilding. If we continue the census trends of the last couple years, we should also be gaining another 10-15 thousand people this year and next.