London Construction - Development News Thread #1

[MolsonExport]

Northwestern London has the single most important asset in the city: UWO. This is where the growth is, where the expansion is greatest, not only in terms of people, but also in terms of high-paying jobs. The city has never capitalized on UWO like our sister city down the 401 has with it's universities (KW).

Northwest London is also where the infrastructure is most inadequate. I am so sick and tired of reading about really expensive projects/proposals in South/east London where manufacturing is shrinking. Throwing away money. Why is it so damned important to shave 5 minutes off a truck route by spending millions on some overpass where nobody fucking lives? WHY does council keep talking about developing more industrial land? That ship has fucking sailed to China, and we already have enough slack, ready-to-go industrial land. For crissakes, St. Thomas has a freeway running through the city, and it did little to staunch the outflow of manufacturing.

Goddammit, I am fed up with the lousy leadership in this city, and the lack of attention bestowed upon it by the Province/Feds.

Stupid/ugly concrete blocks announcing you are in London do diddly squat for our city. Ditto for the metal trees, and the Witch-Queen of Angmar's fountain. I think the idea of more shopping malls/big box zoning is INSANE given our overcapacity. It amounts to little more than robbing Peter to pay Paul. Let's think about what kind of city we want, to attract/retain the knowledge population. First things first: We have to move away from 1970s thinking.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

What I do not understand is why London has not asked for money to help build a freeway, Sunningdale could have easily been a freeway without a problem had people properly planned for it. Seems like London is just content to continue sprawling hoping for the best.

I have never heard about the west-end expressway, so would it connect from the 402 to basically over the river or do you know anything else about it?

And to haljackey, I agree and would much rather see development to the south and past 401, at least that way the highways can be utilized to move traffic a little better compared to the rest of the city.

The plans, which have been conceptually around since the mid-90s, involved an expressway running roughly along Westdel Bourne, crossing the river west of the Oxford/Westdel intersection. In 2001 a revised plan came out that showed the expressway ending at Oxford. It has rarely come up since then.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Northwestern London has the single most important asset in the city: UWO. This is where the growth is, where the expansion is greatest, not only in terms of people, but also in terms of high-paying jobs. The city has never capitalized on UWO like our sister city down the 401 has with it's universities (KW).

Northwest London is also where the infrastructure is most inadequate. I am so sick and tired of reading about really expensive projects/proposals in South/east London where manufacturing is shrinking. Throwing away money. Why is it so damned important to shave 5 minutes off a truck route by spending millions on some overpass where nobody fucking lives? WHY does council keep talking about developing more industrial land? That ship has fucking sailed to China, and we already have enough slack, ready-to-go industrial land. For crissakes, St. Thomas has a freeway running through the city, and it did little to staunch the outflow of manufacturing.

Goddammit, I am fed up with the lousy leadership in this city, and the lack of attention bestowed upon it by the Province/Feds.

Stupid/ugly concrete blocks announcing you are in London do diddly squat for our city. Ditto for the metal trees, and the Witch-Queen of Angmar's fountain. I think the idea of more shopping malls/big box zoning is INSANE given our overcapacity. It amounts to little more than robbing Peter to pay Paul. Let's think about what kind of city we want, to attract/retain the knowledge population. First things first: We have to move away from 1970s thinking.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

[MolsonExport]

^why not. What is the point otherwise? Do you have something to say to me personally?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^why not. What is the point otherwise? Do you have something to say to me personally?

Chill out Mr. 19,856 posts. I was kidding.

[haljackey]

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Chill out Mr. 19,856 posts. I was kidding.

oldskoolhooligans.com

[GreatTallNorth2]

Now please can we get back to bashing London?

[Snark]

Unless the province gets it's fiscal house in order and starts running huge surpluses, or it is built as a toll road, there will be no new freeway. The much discussed ring road freeway around the city would cost at a minimum $400M and quite possibly over $550M (depending on land valuations) - not including the cost of upgrading the VMP.

Even if the funding did appear and there was a political will, land acquisitions, environmental assessments, court challenges, OMB challenges, and political challenges would mean a likely process of at least 20 years before a shovel ever went into the ground. Hamilton's Red Hill Valley Expressway is a fine example.

London would far more likely see an LRT system before a new freeway, and that's a long way off itself.

[ericlewis91]

They really need to invest into the bus system

The express bus from Masonville to Downtown is an improvement

but it needs to extend to White Oaks

also introduce a East/West Line down oxford street

[Pimpmasterdac]

The fact that they've only established a northern leg of an express routes is completely ridiculous. When they launched it within it's first 2 weeks it made a fare return that LTC expected in 7 months!. God knows how much a full north-south Maisonville to White Oaks would take in..

Problem is, like many transit services in Ontario, LTC is hamstrung by political influence. Last year, and I'm sure this year, during budget discussions some of the loser, low ridership, milk routes will be considered for a reductions/cancellation. Residents from fringe areas will piss and moan how their routes cannot be cancelled, yet continue to not use the LTC routes in their area. More money being pissed away on full-sized buses carrying maybe a handful of people. As well Larry Ducharme is well past his best before date as Chairman of the LTC, always finding faults or complaints about anything new rather just stick with the status quo. Hell he wasn't much of a supporter for the 90 express route..

LTC ought to be focusing on its core routes, Richmond, Wellington, Dundas, Oxford(s) and Westmount routes. This is where much of the ridership exists, fortifying these routes with express service at comparable times to cars is what will make the return on the farebox. It doesn't require dedicated lanes or large buses, just using the current fleet more effectively to generate more money!

[GreatTallNorth2]

So what is going on with the BRT system then? Isn't the 90X basically what the BRT system will look like? It's almost as if the LTC works behind closed doors and don't really show the city what it's dream is. Completely agree that Larry Ducharme is well past his time there. He has no vision and no clue what he is doing. The fact that he implemented park and ride a couple of blocks from downtown shows he is clueless. They need to hire someone from Waterloo Region or another bigger transit system that can help bring London in the 1990s.

[Pimpmasterdac]

A true BRT has a bit more to it. Dedicated and exclusive ROW lanes, priority traffic queues at intersections, actual constructed stations (not just a bus shelter) and large super-sized buses. City just finished its plans for the BRT strategy, and will be formally conduct EAs in 2014-2015 of the detailed BRT routes. While I'm sure the EAs will pass, it's financing the project that will be the true bitch of the bunch ($383 million+ $100 million operating), as well as the mass expropriation needed. That's why IMO express routes are the way to go until either senior government steps up and funds it. While the price is quite high, the report suggests every $1 spend will see a $1.80 return in development, benefits, increased property value.

Here are the plans:

City Staff BRT Report: http://sire.london.ca/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=115910

Detailed BRT PowerPoint: http://sire.london.ca/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=115911

[GreatTallNorth2]

That BRT route on Wellington should extend to the 401 and have Park and Ride from there. Then it would be a real alternative for St. Thomas, Woodstock, etc commuters to park there and get fast transit to the city centre.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

So what is going on with the BRT system then? Isn't the 90X basically what the BRT system will look like? It's almost as if the LTC works behind closed doors and don't really show the city what it's dream is. Completely agree that Larry Ducharme is well past his time there. He has no vision and no clue what he is doing. The fact that he implemented park and ride a couple of blocks from downtown shows he is clueless. They need to hire someone from Waterloo Region or another bigger transit system that can help bring London in the 1990s.

Heck, someone from Kingston could do a better job. Kingston's city council has something London's city councils past and present have lacked, and that's the courage to do the right thing for the long term in spite of short-sighted rejections from residents who bemoan the so-called "war on cars". London's politicians have long seemed to be too worried about offending taxpayers and businesses.

I think London Transit has too long been held back by car-centric residents and the politicians that represent them. Those people are always very quick to point out apparently how much "better" traffic flowed in London during the 2009 lockout. (Mind you, to this day I still can't explain why there wasn't a large increase in vehicular traffic during that lockout. Perhaps there was more carpooling? I know I was carpooling up to Western when I worked there and I drove a student up from Byron.)

[manny_santos]

I drove into London last night, and checked out Southdale Road. I'm quite impressed with the newly widened section between Wharncliffe and Wonderland. I especially like that London is finally using LED lights for its new installations. I'm hoping to also drive Oxford Street West while I'm here.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I drove into London last night, and checked out Southdale Road. I'm quite impressed with the newly widened section between Wharncliffe and Wonderland. I especially like that London is finally using LED lights for its new installations. I'm hoping to also drive Oxford Street West while I'm here.

Windsor is replacing all of their old street lights in 2014 with LED, which will save the city millions of dollars each year.

[HillStreetBlues]

Someone linked to this in the Talbot/Fullerton thread. This is a proposal for a medical centre on the corner of Wonderland and Teeple Terrace (just north of Commissioners).

I just wanted to say that I am usually pretty critical of the kind of crappy development that the municipal government approves, which detracts from walkability and adds to sprawl. That having been said, this kind of development, although small in the grand scheme, gives me some modicum of hope. The building will evidently have very little setback from Wonderland, and parking will be in the rear (and off to one side). That’s not bad. This stretch of Wonderland is not walkable at all (think about the huge parking lot in the plaza at Wonderland and Commissioners, and the distances between buildings). It’s too bad to have any parking ride up on Wonderland, but at least the building itself is not separated from the sidewalk by rows of cars.

For London, not bad, all things considered.

[MolsonExport]

None of London's arteries are walkable. Sarnia Road is wretched. Wharncliffe is even more so, and dangerous. Forget about Wonderbread Road and unFunshawe Park Road, and as for Hyde Parking Lot Road, the sidewalk up and dies in numerous spaces.

They are still allowing buildings with their ass-ends facing the street (e.g., the awful redevelopment of Oakridge Mall).

I visited Westmount mall yesterday. Things are getting worse quickly, despite the addition of Target. Laura Secord has closed. Much of the centre court is boarded up. half the storefronts on the first floor are vacant. Of course, the second floor is mostly offices now.
Waiting for the other shoe to drop, when Sears vacates.

[HillStreetBlues]

Yep, you’re dead-right. And the vast majority of developments that are approved are absolutely brutal. My standards for London’s planning department are so low that I can be pleased by nearly anything. They truly don’t understand, so we’re not any time soon going to get enough tolerable development to improve walkability perceptibly.

Shame about Westmount. Time to think about not redeveloping it a la Wonderland Road South big box hell.

By the way, on the topic of arterials in London: Wharncliffe could easily be saved. Wharncliffe South between, say, Horton and Baseline has some stretches of fairly good street wall (broken, of course, by London-style Timmie’s double-drive-throughs and a couple of used cars lots). If traffic could be slowed down, or if it could be given some sort of a “street diet” so the sidewalk weren’t right next to the road, it would be a fairly safe and tolerable place to walk.