South Fraser Perimeter Road/Highway 17 Extension | Completed

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

They are probably concerned about a big rig flying through there at 120km/hour and hitting the rail bridge or the Pattullo.

They should have a CARS 70 / TRUCKS 60 sign.

Agreed, just drove the entire length today at noon from the ferries to HWY 1, the scale at the 99 interchange is very grand and impressive but the 50km section is insanely slow, it's actually almost impossible to drive 50km as no one else is doing less than 70-80! There should absolutely be a different speed limit for trucks and cars, this needs to change very fast or it's going to turn into a great source of ticket revenue for the province.

In a perfect would, two or three less signals would be ideal.

[Thousands Wouldn't]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Agreed, just drove the entire length today at noon from the ferries to HWY 1, the scale at the 99 interchange is very grand and impressive but the 50km section is insanely slow, it's actually almost impossible to drive 50km as no one else is doing less than 70-80! There should absolutely be a different speed limit for trucks and cars, this needs to change very fast or it's going to turn into a great source of ticket revenue for the province.

In a perfect would, two or three less signals would be ideal.

How long, time wise, was the drive from Tsawwassen please? How long distance wise is the 50kmh section? What is the number of traffic lights please?

Traveling this route Tuesday from Tsawwassen to 176 and Trans Canada.

[adrianroam95]

Originally Posted by Thousands Wouldn't

How long, time wise, was the drive from Tsawwassen please? How long distance wise is the 50kmh section? What is the number of traffic lights please?

Traveling this route Tuesday from Tsawwassen to 176 and Trans Canada.

The 50 km/h section isn't particularly long itself. IIRC, it extends from Tannery to the Patullo. I found it particularly difficult to even stay at 60 on that stretch; I drove through that stretch in the low 60s yet I was still being passed on the left by people going 70/80. As for lights, there's 5 traffic lights in total from Hwy 99 to Hwy 1. One at [edited] Tilbury, one at the Hwy. 91 Connector, one at Old Yale Rd., one at Bridgeview, and one at 104 Ave. The wait times aren't that long at these lights.

Edit 2: There are 6 lights along Hwy. 17 from Hwy. 99 to Hwy. 1: Tilbury, Sunbury/Hwy 91, Old Yale Rd., Bridgeview Dr., 136 St., and 104 Ave.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the time it takes to drive the entire route. Unfortunately I wasn't really keeping track of the time when I took a drive on it yesterday

[GMasterAres]

One at Elevator road? Do you mean one at Sunbury between HWY99 and the Tilbury connector? Not supposed to be one at Elevator that is right in right out.

[adrianroam95]

Originally Posted by jhausner

One at Elevator road? Do you mean one at Sunbury between HWY99 and the Tilbury connector? Not supposed to be one at Elevator that is right in right out.

Whoops, that's correct. I'm mistaken. It should be the Tilbury Intersection.

[gkz]

How long until either of these is built? (edit: the interchanges, rather than the intersections we have now) How easy will it be to upgrade?

[CoryHolmes]

I believe both are built and now in service. The Nordel one is certainly built and I use it twice a day. Have done so for the last few months.

I'm pretty sure the Tilbury segment is completed and open as well. Will find out for sure tomorrow morning.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by gkz

How long until either of these is built? (edit: the interchanges, rather than the intersections we have now) How easy will it be to upgrade?

My guess 2 or 3 decades at least. It will all depend on usage patterns. The light at 72nd ave and Hwy 91 as been there for almost 30 years.

[go_leafs_go02]

Just drove it end to end - both directions tonight.

A few comments:

- relatively nice road to drive on, it was dark and rainy, so you couldn't see much.

Highway 1 - Nordel Way:

- other than the 50 km/h speed limit, which to be honest, I get to a point, because going 80 km/h through there wouldn't be very comfortable to most vehicles, but I see this turning into a big speed trap, and separately, I almost wonder if the 50 km/h was put in there largely recognizing that speed limits are ignored almost across the board on major roads and freeways, and that signing it as a 50 km/h was the only way to get vehicles to drop below 80 km/h. Don't know why they started it heading eastbound right at Tannery rather than before the rail crossing.. Minister of Transportation is reviewing rural speed limits and hopefully this takes account for urban highways.

Nordel - Roberts Bank Connector

- while I think the design for the previous part makes sense, since it is limited in some ways due to property ownership and topography, the portion that just opened up west of Nordel was honestly, quite concerning, and likely will see quite a few major collisions happen. First of all, the left lane is RIGHT next to the barrier - trying to pass felt harrowing and to be honest, dangerous, even going at 85 km/h. Yes it was raining, yes it was dark, but still. I did not feel comfortable there.

Second, the 80 km/h design speed truly shows here. The curves are tight, and compared to the other segment east of Nordel, this portion felt like you should be going the speed limit. Streetlighting is absent and it is dark. I'd recommend putting some in the curves especially, and maybe doing some shoulder widening to fit a left shoulder through the curves. Pavement markings were poor - some spots had NO reflectors, and was left on my own to try to figure out where my lane was. Rather concerning to be honest for a brand new road.

Signage was great, direct and concise. Did find it interesting that there was no signage mentioning New Westminster or Pattullo Bridge by Tannery or Bridgeview. Strictly signage for Surrey only. Politically, I do get it, but since it runs right underneath it, it will be used regularly for access to and from New West.

Good road, the portion that hugs the river is extremely scenic, while the Burns bog portion (while dark) seemed to have not much to see.... Will drive it again probably in the next week or two during the daytime. Will see if any of my comments change, but some of those curves are certainly tight.

Also laughed that as soon as you get onto the Old Highway 17 portion to the ferry terminals, the speed limit magically rises 10 km/h to 90 km/h...

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Thousands Wouldn't

How long, time wise, was the drive from Tsawwassen please? How long distance wise is the 50kmh section? What is the number of traffic lights please?

Traveling this route Tuesday from Tsawwassen to 176 and Trans Canada.

From the ferries to Highway 1, you're looking at probably 40 minutes or so.

[whiteshadow]

Drove from Pattullo bridge to Hwy 99 today around 4pm, and there was a large accident at the Nordel Way/Hwy 17 intersection. Lanes blocked, car wreckage strewn about. Couldn't help but think "if they only built the interchange here right away, this would never have happened..."

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Nordel - Roberts Bank Connector

the portion that just opened up west of Nordel was honestly, quite concerning, and likely will see quite a few major collisions happen. First of all, the left lane is RIGHT next to the barrier - trying to pass felt harrowing and to be honest, dangerous, even going at 85 km/h.

Second, the 80 km/h design speed truly shows here. The curves are tight, and compared to the other segment east of Nordel, this portion felt like you should be going the speed limit.

Agreed. Same 80 km/hr design speed as the new SKS highway.

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Also laughed that as soon as you get onto the Old Highway 17 portion to the ferry terminals, the speed limit magically rises 10 km/h to 90 km/h...

That's because it was originally posted at 70 mph or ~115 km/hr when it first opened up and I assume close to its original design speed.

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

From the ferries to Highway 1, you're looking at probably 40 minutes or so.

I drove it yesterday afternoon from 56th St. in Tsawwassen to Hwy 1. Did it in about 20 - 25 minutes IIRC. Mind you I drove it basically at 115 km/hr+ along the entire length (and ~80 km/hr through the 50 km/hr zone)

[gkz]

Originally Posted by cabotp

My guess 2 or 3 decades at least. It will all depend on usage patterns. The light at 72nd ave and Hwy 91 as been there for almost 30 years.

Hopefully by the time they build the Highway 91 Connector interchange, traffic flows will have increased enough to warrant the creation of a free-flow interchange, and the creation of an interchange at Nordel Way and the Connector to allow free-flow movement between Highway 91 and 17.

[DKaz]

I have a 24 minute video from Hwy 1 to 56 St. I'll upload at some point. It's a very nice highway. I only had to stop once at Old Yale Road, and I am still adamant that intersection should be RIRO, but you go forever between intersections/interchanges.

Deltaport to Hwy 99 - 4.4km
Hwy 99 to Tilbury - 5.6km
Tilbury to Sunbury - 3.5km
Sunbury to Tannery - 6.4km
Tannery to Old Yale Road - 0.7km
Old Yale Road to Bridgeview - 2.5km
Bridgeview to 104 Ave - 8.5km

The speed limit really should be 90. I also laughed when I got onto the old highway and the speed limit jumped to 90.

[Cypherus]

I have a pretty good view of the SFPR (Old Yale, Tannery, Fraser Docks, North Delta sections) from my west-facing view at Ultra Urban Village. Traffic has steadily increased on the road since opening a couple days ago, which is a good sign. Lots of trucks and a lot of speeders too, judging by how fast they traverse my field of view against the slower moving trucks. I guess people are just so excited they are lead footing and see how fast they can get from point A to point B....lol

[Spork]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The speed limit really should be 90. I also laughed when I got onto the old highway and the speed limit jumped to 90.

Try going the other way and needing to slow down when you get onto the fancy new highway that you have heard so much about. Huh?

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Spork

Try going the other way and needing to slow down when you get onto the fancy new highway that you have heard so much about. Huh?

last night in the dark, i was going about 65 - 70 km/h, trying to figure out where the lanes were where the 17 splits from 17A. Absolutely no reflectors on the pavement and ministry still uses paint (rather than thermoplastic) which is virtually useless in the rain.

[GMasterAres]

Yah I never understood that. For a region that rains a lot, our at night markings on provincial highways are insane. We're almost as bad as in Seattle where they mark everything with reflectors and don't paint any lines which makes most roads amazingly confusing at night since all you see are thousands of dots everywhere.

That's been the case forever though unfortunately and maybe it is a way to get people to slow down indirectly? I mean drive from Hope to Abbotsford heading west at night in the rain and HWY1 looks like 1 giant single lane. You see absolutely no markings or lines on the highway and its been that way for a decade.

[GMasterAres]

Ok drove it today full stretch 176 to 56th (not the stretch to ferries, that hasn't changed). I then did a timing run back to know how much the new highway will shave off my commute to work. My findings and observations:

1. Traffic light

The traffic is fairly light which I think can be attributed to the holiday season and newness of the highway. Will be interesting to see how traffic use increases, but for the most part the lights weren't an issue though there was a noticeable slow down around the Sunbury intersection at the Nordel connector.

2. Speed

From 176th to 56th Westbound I maintained a cruise control speed of 90kph (10 over) and it seemed quite comfortable though to me, a tad slow. It was mentioned above that the barricade is right against the lanes but in truth (in the light) that doesn't actually happen often. There is very little left curb on most of the overpasses/bridges, and a few straight-aways, but all the curves I could see had a good 2-4 feet worth of edge on either side. The lanes are also plenty wide and didn't feel narrow to me (and my car is wider than many standard cars).

On the way back (eastbound) I went with traffic flow and found people averaged 95kph. There were a few people doing the speed limit in the right lane and that actually did cause some issues with people cutting into the left, even container trucks, to pass them then get back in the right lane. This is again an underline as to the notion:

"People will drive a speed that feels comfortable not what the posted speed limit is." combined with "people driving drastically slower or faster than the flow of traffic are the most dangerous."

I REALLY hope our government doesn't limit speed limit reviews to just the BC interior and does eventually look at metro Vancouver speeds.

That said, doing 90 and even 95kph felt again comfortable for the most part. I could see slowing down when it is dark and/or raining but that goes for any road. You should slow down in snow too but that doesn't mean the speed limits should be 10kph.

The entire stretch of the SFPR could imo be 90kph comfortably. 100kph it could be if you want limits to be the upper limits, but 90kph with flow of traffic doing about 95 or so would be fine.

3. Old Yale Dip

50kph is overkill even for trucks. I was following a container truck and it went under the dip at 80kph (obviously didn't notice the 50kph speed limit sign) and had a good 3-4 foot clearance above it + did the dip smoothly. I could see if they were ripping through there at 100kph or more then there may be an issue, but I think they could very easily be safe posting a 80kph car, 70kph truck speed through that dip eventually.

Also the fact it goes well past the Old Yale temp intersection and doesn't speed up technically until you're past the Tannery interchange is also overkill. Everyone and I mean everyone sped back up once they were past the lights.

Again... people drive what they feel is safe not what the posted limits are.

I'm also not terribly worried about speed traps because honestly EVERYONE sped through everything so as long as you're more or less going with flow, you'll be fine imo.

3. Highway Feel

Feels great. The pavement was smooth, no major dips or issues. Even the 50kph dip between was fine. I have a low profile sports car with firm suspension and low profile tires, and I didn't feel it really @ 80kph (the flow of traffic).

At the more realistic 95kph speed everything seemed good too. The highway does get curvy from Tilbury to Highway 99 but anyone that things it is crazy curvy hasn't driven highway 97 in the interior which is more curvy in many spots, 1 lane in many spots, and posted 100kph speed limit. I have no issue on Highway 97 in the interior with a fully loaded F250 pulling a trailer going through the curves from Cache Creek to 100 Mile @ 100kph.

So anyone that thinks that stretch is major curve city needs to get out and drive more elsewhere in the Province.

4. Time measurements

Westbound was from 176th to 56th @ 90kph (hit 0 lights the entire stretch)

Start overpass HWY1: 1:12pm
Reach Tannery Interchange: 1:22pm
Reach 56th intersection @ Tsawassen: 1:38pm
Total time to 56th = 26 minutes @ 90kph

Expect +15 minutes during rush hour I'd imagine

Eastbound was from Ladner Trunk @ HWY 17A to Tannery Interchange (went HWY 17A to HWY99, then east on HWY99 to exit, then got on SFPR to Tannery)

Start Ladner@HWY 17A: 1:53pm
Reach Tannery Interchange: 2:16pm
Total time: 24 minutes

Lights I had to stop at were Ladner@HWY 17A, and Sunbury intersection.

So overall I am impressed. If you add 10 minutes to the eastbound stretch, that shaved off 30 minutes per day off my commute combined, 15 minutes each way. That's will be NICE.



So for this commuter, and South of Fraser citizen, 2 thumbs up even with the intersections in place. We shall see if that stands in 6 months and a year from now.

[TransitFreak]

I wonder if part of the slow down is so that there are no high speed impacts on the piers of Patullo...given its fragile state...just thought of that as a possible issue as well...