PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[tsarstruck]

In non-Conshohocken bickering news, more details on the proposed apartment complex at 12th and Jackson, which will include two additional five-story buildings being built inside the interior spaces of the original buildings as well as building on top of the exterior buildings, 164 apartments, 62 parking spaces, and a 24-hour doorman (!). Would be a gamechanger for that area, although not an aesthetic winner, even in these overly rosy renderings.



http://www.passyunkpost.com/2013/12/20/h...e-old-brush-factory-at-12th-and-jackson/

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

In non-Conshohocken bickering news,

Don't we need a separate thread for that?

[Pennsgrant]

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

In non-Conshohocken bickering news, more details on the proposed apartment complex at 12th and Jackson

12th + Jackson? Arghhhhhh. You know there are people who dont care about South Philly development and this post will annoy them tremendously.

[pwp]

My apologies if this has been posted already. On Monday I noticed a SEPTA payment machine at the 13th St El stop. It had a sign that said testing. I'm assuming this is a prototype or a test model of the new payment technology that's coming in 2014?

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by MSFHQ

I like Philly but the one thing Conshy has going for it is the lack of the 4% wage tax. Philly is cool, but not worth 4% IMO.

It is if you enjoy an urban lifestyle--if you don't like it...then duh.

4% is a bargain for me and my family compared to what my cost of living in NYC and London was (and both those city's have income taxes as well). I find it interesting to have someone who is so blase about the city post on a thread like this?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

4% is a bargain for me and my family compared to what my cost of living in NYC and London was (and both those city's have income taxes as well). I find it interesting to have someone who is so blase about the city post on a thread like this?

This. Why is this guy even on this board? As a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵?

Most cities have higher costs of living. It's because they're in demand (among other things). Those costs are often offset in other ways (cheaper transportation, etc), but to complain about a 4% wage tax in the era we're living in. Sounds very out of touch. Especially on a board devoted to cities.

Have fun in Coatesville.

[Late1]

Actually, Coatesville is offically a city

I'll admit I'd rather see development in Philly than Conshy, but yes, there's plenty of room in the Philly thread to cover all urban development in the metro (especially when it's as close to THE city as Conshy.)

All that aside, how fantastic is it that in 2014, we're likely to see construction begin on 656' FMC @ Cira South, 562' SLS International, AND 550' W Hotel - in addition to hopefully at least finding out what Comcast is doing with at least 2 new towers, one of which could be a new tallest? This will likely make last decade's building spree (and new tallest) look small-potatoes by comparison

[shadowbat2]

Originally Posted by pwp

My apologies if this has been posted already. On Monday I noticed a SEPTA payment machine at the 13th St El stop. It had a sign that said testing. I'm assuming this is a prototype or a test model of the new payment technology that's coming in 2014?

They have two at the Walnut Locust station as well, plus a new turnstile....

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This. Why is this guy even on this board? As a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵?

Most cities have higher costs of living. It's because they're in demand (among other things). Those costs are often offset in other ways (cheaper transportation, etc), but to complain about a 4% wage tax in the era we're living in. Sounds very out of touch. Especially on a board devoted to cities.

Have fun in Coatesville.

It's all relative. Sure it's a bargain when it is being compared to some of the most expensive cities in the world but when compared locally and taking the many, MANY factors into account, 4% is a bit steep. And one can still appreciate the city and all it has to offer but not like its tax structure. People like to make the city out to be some sort of an ultra affordable urban paradise but for some people, it is out of reach once you start breaking it down economically.

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

And one word I would NOT use to describe Conshy is "urban," at least not in any serious sense.

You should come for a visit sometime and explore it then, you will be very surprised. Take a look at just a few random pics I found, and Conshy (and West Conshy) is indeed very urban:

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/12581253.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/image...hPYhMGyNlurhL5QwVFMKxNBkpL8uZq6Xw5PQP5iw
http://cdn.phillymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Conshohocken-Credit-Jauhien-Sasnou.jpg
http://photos1.zillow.com/p_d/ISlep7hs2dd4wg1000000000.jpg
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/cd/08/04/lovely-west-conshohocken.jpg

[Philly-Drew]

I get people don't like paying the 4%, but many suburbs you still have to pay 1%-2%. So the difference of 2%-3% in a wage tax could never bring me to live in the burbs. I grew up in the burbs and will never move back.

For me, it's about lifestyle.

I commute to the burbs 3-4 days a week and come back home. The town where I work takes 1%, Philadelphia takes the other 3%. When I am home, I never drive anywhere.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

You should come for a visit sometime and explore it then, you will be very surprised. Take a look at just a few random pics I found, and Conshy (and West Conshy) is indeed very urban

I'm actually in Conshy and West Conshy all the time. It's still not what I'd call "urban," as that term is commonly understood (i.e., of or relating to cities, especially larger cities). To me, Conshocken has the vibe (and streetscapes) of a small town or small city (as reflected in the photos to which you linked). I mean, Conshy has a population of about 8,000, and West Conshy has a population of about 1,300. Even by the standards of Montgomery County and the neighboring towns, it's not what I--and I think most people--would call "urban." Maybe it's just semantics or a matter of degree, but to me, Fayette Street feels a lot more like Mayberry than it does an urban area of any big city. Not that there's anything wrong with that--I think Conshy has a lot of charm and appeal.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

I commute to the burbs 3-4 days a week and come back home. The town where I work takes 1%, Philadelphia takes the other 3%.

No the city gets all of your income tax if you are a city resident, regardless of where you work. The local deduction you are seeing for where you work is probably that municipalities LST tax.

Ah okay I see, Philly Fan, and I guess our definitions of urban are quite different then. Row homes, tight streets, walk-ability, access to rail, etc., etc., is my definition, regardless if it is located in Philly or in the outskirts. Also, my point always goes back to Conshy is more urban than the Northeast (for example) so just because the NE is within city limits, that does not automatically make it a more urban place to me.


Blatstein planning retail hub for Broad and Washington

DAVID GAMBACORTA, Daily News Staff Writer [email protected], 215-854-5994
Posted: Sunday, December 22, 2013, 3:01 AM

SO . . . THIS IS IT, huh?

That's been the knee-jerk reaction of anyone who has ever encountered the cracked and barren lots that serve as the southern entrance to the Avenue of the Arts at Broad Street and Washington Avenue.

The vacant slabs of real estate on the northwest and northeast corners of the intersection have been the subject of countless rumors during the last 20 years - everything from hotels and condos to a movie soundstage that was going to be built by Philly-born Hollywood star Will Smith.

All of those plans turned out to be pipe dreams, and the lots remained a double-barreled blast of blah.

But the blog Passyunk Post reported earlier this week that developer Bart Blatstein was in the process of buying the enormous parcel on the northeast corner from its current owner, Hudson Realty Capital LLC.

A source familiar with the deal said Blatstein hopes to create a retail hub on the plot, which stretches from Broad to 13th Street, and Washington Avenue to Carpenter Street.

The lot on the northwest corner is owned by the Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation, which doesn't appear to have any current plans for that parcel.

Officials at Hudson Realty did not return a request for comment.

Blatstein declined to elaborate on his plans for the site, which in recent years hosted occasional performances by Cirque du Soleil.

"It's a great location that warrants good use," said Tim Hitchens, of the Hawthorne Empowerment Coalition, a nearby neighborhood group.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/201312..._and_Washington.html#rccBkg7qkgujDj9L.99

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Sunoco will move 120 workers OUT of Center City

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...unoco-to-move-hq-out-of-center-city.html



Something has got to be done about this in City Council. They can't get 🞵🞵🞵🞵 done in this city. WE NEED NEW BUSINESS TAXES!

It's just the marketing side. Sunoco Logisitics is staying at 1818 Market.

I work at the office in Tinicum which is techinically the company HQ. Almost everyone hates it there because the building is old and crummy and it's in an industrial park. Essington is a depressing place to be even when it's sunny outside. I literally have freight trains going past my window about 100 feet away and my desk vibrates. We have to drive past a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 bar to get to work. It's just not conducive to being a HQ. I'm pretty happy with the choice since the Ellis Preserve is a beautiful property.

The reason Newtown Square was picked was because it was central to where all the workers live...most of us are in Montco and Chesco. It will take a half hour off my commute and no more driving through the horrid bottlenecked roads of lower Delco. I wished they had picked something along the R5 (yes I still call it that) since I live right at the Exton train station...but it's 20 minutes by car from door to door for me when we move.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This. Why is this guy even on this board? As a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵?

Most cities have higher costs of living. It's because they're in demand (among other things). Those costs are often offset in other ways (cheaper transportation, etc), but to complain about a 4% wage tax in the era we're living in. Sounds very out of touch. Especially on a board devoted to cities.

Have fun in Coatesville.

3andB good to hear from you!

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

It's all relative. Sure it's a bargain when it is being compared to some of the most expensive cities in the world but when compared locally and taking the many, MANY factors into account, 4% is a bit steep. And one can still appreciate the city and all it has to offer but not like its tax structure. People like to make the city out to be some sort of an ultra affordable urban paradise but for some people, it is out of reach once you start breaking it down economically.

Firstly, no one loves the tax structure--just using it as a crutch as to why one doesn't like the city/won't live here--is a bit lame, imo. Secondly, you're not taking into account ancillary benefits. My commute to work is a 10 minute WALK. The average cross-suburb or suburb-city commute time is around 40 minutes (maybe higher). I come from the economic camp that time is money. So subtract the difference between those 2 commute times, multiple that number by 2 for to and from, than multiply that by work days/year (200+). Factor in commuting costs and that 4% has already evaporated in simply being more efficient with my time.

There are also other efficiencies that don't show up on your pay stub. Access to the world's finest hospitals. True story--a family member of mine suffered a stroke, he lived on the western edge of the Main Line. Suburban ambulance response time is slower, took about 20 minutes, and he was rushed to a suburban hospital who quickly realized that they didn't have the ability to operate on the brain clot. They called the jefferson medivac--which was unavailable--then had to put him in an ambulance and rush him down to Jefferson Neuro. Unfortunately, even though it was barely dawn, I-76 had an accident and ensuing traffic jam cost the ambulance an additional 30 minutes. Anyone who knows the nature of strokes knows that every second counts. All the time wasted in the suburbs not getting the essential care, cost him his life. Though it was a very serious stroke, he'd be alive today if he had faster access to critical care. But that 4%! I'm less than a 15 minute walk from 2 of the finest hospitals in the country.

Really, though, it's about a lifestyle value and what the 4% means to it. I find value in the fact that the city encourages activity and involvement. My wife and I are engaged 6-7 nights/week in activities of all variety (social, cultural, community). We're learning/exploring. Among our urban friends--we're fairly typical. Our suburban friends? for whatever reason, lead a far less involved lifestyle--which they must find value in, or they just don't know any better b/c they never lived in the city.

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

I get people don't like paying the 4%, but many suburbs you still have to pay 1%-2%. So the difference of 2%-3% in a wage tax could never bring me to live in the burbs. I grew up in the burbs and will never move back.

For me, it's about lifestyle.

I commute to the burbs 3-4 days a week and come back home. The town where I work takes 1%, Philadelphia takes the other 3%. When I am home, I never drive anywhere.

Additionally, even though I'm getting smoked with AVI, my real estate taxes are still considerably lower for the price of my home comparative to the suburbs.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

In non-Conshohocken bickering news, more details on the proposed apartment complex at 12th and Jackson, which will include two additional five-story buildings being built inside the interior spaces of the original buildings as well as building on top of the exterior buildings, 164 apartments, 62 parking spaces, and a 24-hour doorman (!). Would be a gamechanger for that area, although not an aesthetic winner, even in these overly rosy renderings.



http://www.passyunkpost.com/2013/12/20/h...e-old-brush-factory-at-12th-and-jackson/

Ugh. It looks like a mental hospital. They can do better than that.

[Plokoon11]

^ Your right I was actually wondering what vibe it was giving and mental hospital fits that.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

I'm actually in Conshy and West Conshy all the time. It's still not what I'd call "urban," as that term is commonly understood (i.e., of or relating to cities, especially larger cities). To me, Conshocken has the vibe (and streetscapes) of a small town or small city (as reflected in the photos to which you linked). I mean, Conshy has a population of about 8,000, and West Conshy has a population of about 1,300. Even by the standards of Montgomery County and the neighboring towns, it's not what I--and I think most people--would call "urban." Maybe it's just semantics or a matter of degree, but to me, Fayette Street feels a lot more like Mayberry than it does an urban area of any big city. Not that there's anything wrong with that--I think Conshy has a lot of charm and appeal.

There's more than one definition for "urban". For example, think about the towns in the Lower Engadine. None of them are very large, but all of them are clustered with a strong demarcation between town and countryside. Thus, the towns are simultaneously "small" and "charming" but also "urban" in this contrastive sense. Towns and villages like Conshohocken, Lansdale, Ambler, North Wales, Ardmore, New Hope, Phoenixville, etc., all likewise have that feeling. So I would regard projects that help reinforce--rather than undermine--their Main Street image as being urban for the purposes of this board.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/EW-AJ754_engadi_G_20101215230048.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3092/3220649706_d8034e88d7.jpg
http://li.zoocdn.com/0c22a7754627960f375e821e74bb8196fcf95fe0_645_430.jpg
http://www.sinestra.ch/wp-content/uploads/ws-ftan.jpg
http://images.gadmin.st.s3.amazonaws.com/21558/images/buehne/Unterengadin_275-190-1.jpg

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Firstly, no one loves the tax structure--just using it as a crutch as to why one doesn't like the city/won't live here--is a bit lame, imo. Secondly, you're not taking into account ancillary benefits. My commute to work is a 10 minute WALK. The average cross-suburb or suburb-city commute time is around 40 minutes (maybe higher). I come from the economic camp that time is money. So subtract the difference between those 2 commute times, multiple that number by 2 for to and from, than multiply that by work days/year (200+). Factor in commuting costs and that 4% has already evaporated in simply being more efficient with my time.

There are also other efficiencies that don't show up on your pay stub. Access to the world's finest hospitals. True story--a family member of mine suffered a stroke, he lived on the western edge of the Main Line. Suburban ambulance response time is slower, took about 20 minutes, and he was rushed to a suburban hospital who quickly realized that they didn't have the ability to operate on the brain clot. They called the jefferson medivac--which was unavailable--then had to put him in an ambulance and rush him down to Jefferson Neuro. Unfortunately, even though it was barely dawn, I-76 had an accident and ensuing traffic jam cost the ambulance an additional 30 minutes. Anyone who knows the nature of strokes knows that every second counts. All the time wasted in the suburbs not getting the essential care, cost him his life. Though it was a very serious stroke, he'd be alive today if he had faster access to critical care. But that 4%! I'm less than a 15 minute walk from 2 of the finest hospitals in the country.

Really, though, it's about a lifestyle value and what the 4% means to it. I find value in the fact that the city encourages activity and involvement. My wife and I are engaged 6-7 nights/week in activities of all variety (social, cultural, community). We're learning/exploring. Among our urban friends--we're fairly typical. Our suburban friends? for whatever reason, lead a far less involved lifestyle--which they must find value in, or they just don't know any better b/c they never lived in the city.

Additionally, even though I'm getting smoked with AVI, my real estate taxes are still considerably lower for the price of my home comparative to the suburbs.

First and foremost, my condolences on the loss of your family member and I am sorry to hear this!

Londonee, I see your point, I really do. However a huge chunk of your argument to me is again, relative. Not everyone's job is located in the city and not everyone would have the ability to just up and quit their job if they happened to move into the city, so then not everyone would have the ability to walk to their job (in fact a TON of my friends and coworkers live in the city, and I can count on one hand how many have this luxury). Some people need a car for work so car insurance, etc., is generally more expensive in the city. Rents/mortgages can be cheaper but this would all depend on where exactly in the city it is that you live of course. If you go from having 1% taken from your paycheck to 4% and factor in all of the other things I mentioned above, this can be a very solid economical argument and I would see nothing "lame" about it.

And I am not sure where exactly in the city it is that you live, but is it a realistic place for the average person? I am not asking you to divulge this if you don't feel comfortable in sharing however, something to consider.

RE: the urban vs. suburban friends, are apples to apples being compared? Do a majority of the suburban friends have kids while the urban friends do not? Lots to consider here. But generally speaking I would agree that there is more going on in the city vs. most 'burbs because that is the nature of cities in general.

I completely understand your point of view and you have some great points, but I just don't feel that it is easy to paint with a broad brush in our metro for various reasons.

[miesian]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

Ugh. It looks like a mental hospital. They can do better than that.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

I get people don't like paying the 4%, but many suburbs you still have to pay 1%-2%. So the difference of 2%-3% in a wage tax could never bring me to live in the burbs. I grew up in the burbs and will never move back.

For me, it's about lifestyle.

I commute to the burbs 3-4 days a week and come back home. The town where I work takes 1%, Philadelphia takes the other 3%. When I am home, I never drive anywhere.

You pay real estate taxes, higher sales tax and 4% of your check goes to the city. That's not suppose to be for the "privilege" of living in the city. Its suppose to work both ways.