South Fraser Perimeter Road/Highway 17 Extension | Completed - Page 152

DKaz · #**3021** Posted **Dec 17, 2013, 9:40 PM**

They could've installed toll gantries maybe just west of 200 St. and then between Hastings and Rupert, then all ramps in between, and then figured that say car A got on the highway at this interchange and got off at that interchange and drove so and so kms, or car B drove the entire length of the new highway, and then calculated a toll of 10 cents a km.

Hwy 17 doesn't need to be tolled though. Vancouver area ports need to be competitive.

GMasterAres · #**3022** Posted **Dec 17, 2013, 10:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tybuilding

I agree, toll it. We need to have more sections of tolled highway. Highway 1 in Burnaby should have been tolled along with the new section in Surrey/Langley. In Europe when I drove on the toll highway in Italy I entered a tolled section with a toll on the on-ramp and then the off ramps. $2.2 Billion was spent outside of the bridge crossing yet only the $800 million bridge is tolled. Many benefit from the highway expansion but only those crossing the bridge pay.

This is why GPS road pricing would be great to have.

Fair enough, but then 100% of the money collected for tolls should stay in the areas collecting the tolls. So for example, if the tolls on all the "new" highways happen to be out in the burbs aka New West, Coquitlam, Langley, Surrey, etc., and we have to pay a toll, then 0 of that money should go to any infrastructure in Vancouver, Burnaby, North Vancouver, etc.

$0.

Then I'd be ok with tolling all our new stuff. If that isn't good, then it has to stick to the way it is now, toll the infrastructure only to pay off the infrastructure only.

Besides, it's not true that only the people driving the bridge pay. We all pay. The money for the highway comes out of the gas tax and other taxes we all pay for the 'honor' of owning a car. The people driving across the bridge pay twice, through taxes for the highway and through the toll for the bridge.

So it does actually work out fairly right now in that sense. The big beef is that we've built a lot of infrastructure in recent years and only the major crossings out to South of the Fraser seem to get tolls and that's what is 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 people off and bringing up the "Toll everything!" topic.

dharper · #**3023** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 5:30 AM**

Does anyone know when the entire length of the SFPR will open? Last week it sounded like anytime between Monday(Dec 16) and Jan 1.

go_leafs_go02 · #**3024** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 5:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dharper

Does anyone know when the entire length of the SFPR will open? Last week it sounded like anytime between Monday(Dec 16) and Jan 1.

Nothing concrete yet, but "before Christmas" has been floated around.

Separately, the Construction Bulletins have all "closures" for this week being "Sunday to Thursday" Could we potentially see a Friday opening?

http://www.sfprconstruction.ca/database/...13_Dec_21_2013_REV00_sub_Dec_11_2013.pdf

Flash604 · #**3025** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 8:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Nothing concrete yet, but "before Christmas" has been floated around.

Separately, the Construction Bulletins have all "closures" for this week being "Sunday to Thursday" Could we potentially see a Friday opening?

http://www.sfprconstruction.ca/database/...13_Dec_21_2013_REV00_sub_Dec_11_2013.pdf

The Minister of Transport promised by Christmas this past weekend.

VanCvl · #**3026** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 3:25 PM**

The official opening will be on Saturday between River Road and Hwy 99. Btw, the new Hwy 17A on and off ramps and now open too.

DKaz · #**3027** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 5:30 PM**

Saturday? Where did you get this?

c041v · #**3028** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 5:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKaz

Saturday? Where did you get this?

A reliable source. He speaks the truth.

Flash604 · #**3029** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanCvl

The official opening will be on Saturday between River Road and Hwy 99. Btw, the new Hwy 17A on and off ramps and now open too.

If they would just update that this has been done on the website, I'll get them open in Google Maps.

makr3trkr · #**3030** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 6:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanCvl

The official opening will be on Saturday between River Road and Hwy 99.

And Tannery/Old Yale/124th?

go_leafs_go02 · #**3031** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 6:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

And Tannery/Old Yale/124th?

I'm assuming so. The whole thing will be open end to end as of Saturday.

I think the first phase in Surrey also opened up on a Saturday morning in December 2012.

makr3trkr · #**3032** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 6:33 PM**

Video of Ladner section driving:

www.vancouversun.com/Closures+detours+during+final+stages+South+Fraser+Perimeter+Road/9293906/story.html

It's difficult to watch that and not think that 80km/hr is set artificially low.

You're going to have some trucks doing 75ish to stay under the limit, and other trucks doing 110ish.

The upper levels has bikes on the shoulder, challenging grades, narrow medians, and winding curves, and the limit is 90km/hr.

Highway 91 has a stoplight and the limit is still 90km/hr.

malabrat · #**3033** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 6:50 PM**

Yes it does seem odd that the new highway 17 section is 80. It should be at least 90. Its freeway standard - better standard than old 17A and its speed limited is 90 with a light. Makes no sense at all

Alex Mackinnon · #**3034** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 8:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tybuilding

I agree, toll it. We need to have more sections of tolled highway. Highway 1 in Burnaby should have been tolled along with the new section in Surrey/Langley. In Europe when I drove on the toll highway in Italy I entered a tolled section with a toll on the on-ramp and then the off ramps. $2.2 Billion was spent outside of the bridge crossing yet only the $800 million bridge is tolled. Many benefit from the highway expansion but only those crossing the bridge pay.

This is why GPS road pricing would be great to have.

I'm pretty sure your numbers are grossly inaccurate. The bridge is the bulk of the cost, probably about $2 Billion of it. The remainder is the highway upgrades. A lane km of freeway isn't that expensive. Usually between $5-15M.

Flash604 · #**3035** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 8:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I'm pretty sure your numbers are grossly inaccurate. The bridge is the bulk of the cost, probably about $2 Billion of it. The remainder is the highway upgrades. A lane km of freeway isn't that expensive. Usually between $5-15M.

You are both going too far on the extremes. The official word is that the bridge was half the cost of the project.

Whether we agree or not, the explanation of why they did the tolling in the manner the did was given long ago at http://www.pmh1project.com/tolling/Pages/About-Tolling.aspx. While I'd prefer to see a by the mile toll, I can understand the "if you toll the entire thing, you'll end up with highway traffic on local roads as people try to avoid the toll" argument.

makr3trkr · #**3036** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 8:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash604

You are both going too far on the extremes. The official word is that the bridge was half the cost of the project.

If it was 50/50, that would give about 1.23 billion for the bridge and approaches, which makes sense, considering the rest of the project included complex retrofit/demolition/construction of 30-40 other bridges/flyovers on an active highway and the Surrey side got four additional lanes, not two.

The SFPR is 1.26 billion, also for just under 40km (albeit with fewer bridges/overpasses), so that dovetails nicely, even if only coincidental.

Mousey · #**3037** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 10:44 PM**

Have a question for anyone who might know.
My commute takes me from North Delta (Hwy 91 @ 64th) to Coquitlam (Westwood @ Lougheed)
I usually just go 64th-152-hwy 1-hwy 7. It takes about 40 minutes in the morning. (You catch the green wave from scott rd @ 64 pretty much all the way to hwy 1)
I was thinking one of two things. When 17 is wide open it will take a substantial amount of trucks off of hwy 91/91a. Is anyone thinking that hwy 91 in the morning will now see a considerably less amount of traffic? Or would taking hwy 17 all the way to Hwy 1 be a faster alternative?
In light traffic, from my house to Coquitlam Centre via 91/91a/columbia/brunette/1/7 takes only 30 minutes. Not complaining about 40 minutes in the morning, but I would like to avoid a $6 toll everyday starting Jan. 1st.

makr3trkr · #**3038** Posted **Dec 18, 2013, 11:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mousey

Have a question for anyone who might know.
My commute takes me from North Delta (Hwy 91 @ 64th) to Coquitlam (Westwood @ Lougheed)
I usually just go 64th-152-hwy 1-hwy 7. It takes about 40 minutes in the morning. (You catch the green wave from scott rd @ 64 pretty much all the way to hwy 1)
I was thinking one of two things. When 17 is wide open it will take a substantial amount of trucks off of hwy 91/91a. Is anyone thinking that hwy 91 in the morning will now see a considerably less amount of traffic? Or would taking hwy 17 all the way to Hwy 1 be a faster alternative?
In light traffic, from my house to Coquitlam Centre via 91/91a/columbia/brunette/1/7 takes only 30 minutes. Not complaining about 40 minutes in the morning, but I would like to avoid a $6 toll everyday starting Jan. 1st.

Alex Fraser Bridge and especially Queensborough are wildcards. Some days can be light, other days can be backed up to Hwy 10, so I would check Google Maps/MoT webcams before you leave.

Also, I like TomTom traffic:
http://www.tomtom.com/livetraffic/

While traffic might be lighter on Highway 91 northbound because of people exiting onto the Nordel connector, there will also be more vehicles entering from the Nordel connector, so I think it will be a wash.

makr3trkr · #**3039** Posted **Dec 19, 2013, 1:05 AM**

http://www.southdeltaleader.com/news/236248601.html

The South Fraser Perimeter Road was almost bare on Monday morning even as Highway 17A was a parking lot from the Highway 99 overpass to Tsawwassen

Delta's top engineer blamed traffic woes in South Delta yesterday on poor signage in advance of the shutdown of Highway 17A to complete construction for the new South Fraser Perimeter Road project.

"They looked at many different ways of undertaking that construction and they found the only way to do it was to actually completely close the highway," said Lan, adding staff reviewed the plan and highlighted the need to continue to move traffic smoothly.

"Certainly, the end result today was it did not work well."

Normal traffic patterns both north and southbound on Highway 17A are expected to be seen by Friday, while the SFPR is still slated to open before Christmas. The SFPR will remain fully open after Friday between 28th Avenue and Highway 99.

=====

SFPR is a huge improvement over River Road (also 80km/hr). Consider Highway 17 was 112 km/hr when it opened, and how much vehicle safety has improved. The 80km/hr limit is baffling.

logicbomb · #**3040** Posted **Dec 19, 2013, 2:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

SFPR is a huge improvement over River Road (also 80km/hr). Consider Highway 17 was 112 km/hr when it opened, and how much vehicle safety has improved. The 80km/hr limit is baffling.

No it isn't.

It won't be tolled, you'll just be ticketed. No public outrage, but 500% more revenue. That 50km/hr portion under the Patullo is pretty damn harsh.