DENVER | Transportation Thread - Page 307

Wizened Variations · #**6121** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 7:02 PM**

I like alternative 3 with the bike traffic 2 way. The 3 foot buffer might not be necessary- a 1 or 2 foot tall cement barrier might be all that is needed (since cars would not be parked adjacent to the bike lane, no provisions for jaywalking would be needed). This would shave off 2 feet.

I also might add that having bicycled next to a bus- they SURE are HUGE! Like them on the other side of the road from me.

DenverRider2 · #**6122** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 7:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

how about some street parking? good buffer for those nice sidewalks...and, provides parking (duh)

Wouldn't there be parking in the middle of the block where the 9 ft bus shelter is and parking only removed at the bus stop itself?

Also are those traffic lanes only 10 ft? we might have more width to play with.

Cirrus · #**6123** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 7:25 PM**

If we have 10 feet to work with, we can make any cycletrack 2-way. Ideally a two-way cycletrack is 6' each direction with a 3' buffer, but you can go down to 4' each way with a 2' buffer.

The harder question is intersections. With the 2-way design, we'd need a dedicated signal for cycletracks, and cars turning left across the bike lane would have to wait for a left turn signal. Right now, with the one-way design, cars turning left use the cycletrack as a turn lane. So if we made it two-way, it would slow the car lanes a little more by moving those left-turning cars into the general travel lane.

I'd prefer the 2-way layout, but if we're also taking a lane for buses then that could be too much.

It would have to look like this:

bcp · #**6124** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverRider2

Wouldn't there be parking in the middle of the block where the 9 ft bus shelter is and parking only removed at the bus stop itself?

ah yes, good point I missed that...so long as there aren't stops EVERY block, even better.

The Dirt · #**6125** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 8:36 PM**

It might be tricky as people parking their cars will frequently block the bus lane.

RyanD · #**6126** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 8:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dirt

It might be tricky as people parking their cars will frequently block the bus lane.

They already have this kind of parking system on Lincoln. I don't see how it would be much different?

bobg · #**6127** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 9:26 PM**

Why do we need parking at all on 15th from Larimer to Colfax? I just do not see the compelling need for it.

As it stands there's only a couple dozen parking spots left on that stretch of 15th, and no one seems to be complaining. B2C businesses in that area aren't reliant on cars parking right in front, and residential/commercial/hotels are aware of the multitude of off-street parking options.

Parking as a buffer? Maybe but there's smaller buffers that improve the pedestrian experience by orders of magnitude more than parking.

IMO there's just some stretches of downtown that are just better off without parking (15th, 17th, 18th).

However, if we need parking on 15th as a security blanket, couldn't we settle on the off peak parking like we did with Broadway? Go with Cirrus's ALT 3 and make the far left vehicle lane off peak parking. It seems rather silly to have three thru lanes there all the time when we only need all three of them for rush hour. Also I do not like the idea of 6 ft wide sidewalks in downtown which is what we would get with a transit shelter and parking alternating off and on.

I do not see the need for a two way cycle track on 15th. Maybe way off in the future a cycletrack on 15th past blake to Highland. But with 14th having a bike lane, and 14th street going from Blake to Colfax the other way it serves as a good bike couplet for the bike lane on 15th.

Wizened Variations · #**6128** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 9:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dirt

It might be tricky as people parking their cars will frequently block the bus lane.

Interesting point.

Maybe dedicated bus and bicycle lanes, at least where the right-of-way width is under some figure, should not run on the same streets.

In this case, bicycle lanes might be built as a bordered portion of the sidewalk with the roadside curb larger than normal, and, 24 hour non-parking. In this case, the bike lane could be 5' wide, and, one way- either in the direction traffic on a one way street, or in the direction of traffic flow on the bicycle way side of the street (i.e., put a grid of one way bicycle lanes, irrespective of whether the auto traffic is one or two way.)

Another solution, might be to just paint a bicycle way on top of a widened sidewalk. In that case, a given sidewalk might be expanded by 4 or 5 feet and sacrifice a few additional feet of original width to the bike lane. Bound with raised curbs on both sides.

Of course, people could walk on it, and, perhaps some type of time share between pedestrians + bicyclists and only bicyclists could be arranged.

(we are going to have to be able ticket bicyclists and pedestrians before all this is resolved, I suspect.)

Cirrus · #**6129** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 9:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobg

I do not like the idea of 6 ft wide sidewalks in downtown which is what we would get with a transit shelter and parking alternating off and on.

Yeah. The sidewalk is 15' now, including the area for bus shelters. Any change to the curbs would up the cost of the whole thing a lot, and I wouldn't want to go below about 12' anyway. If we decided to add a full-on transitway then we'd be rebuilding the curbs anyway, so we could theoretically take a couple of feet if need be, but under Alt 3 I wouldn't want to mess w/ the curbs.

DenverRider2 · #**6130** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 9:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobg

Why do we need parking at all on 15th from Larimer to Colfax? I just do not see the compelling need for it.

At the very least we need dedicated loading zones on the corner cross streets. Currently trucks use the bike lane as their delivery area.

bobg · #**6131** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 9:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Yeah. The sidewalk is 15' now, including the area for bus shelters. Any change to the curbs would up the cost of the whole thing a lot, and I wouldn't want to go below about 12' anyway. If we decided to add a full-on transitway then we'd be rebuilding the curbs anyway, so we could theoretically take a couple of feet if need be, but under Alt 3 I wouldn't want to mess w/ the curbs.

For Alt 3 with off peak parking I was thinking floating parking outside the bike lane along the buffer. So that shouldn't mess with the curbs.

Something along these lines :

bobg · #**6132** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 10:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverRider2

At the very least we need dedicated loading zones on the corner cross streets. Currently trucks use the bike lane as their delivery area.

I could be wrong here since I am not aware of every building's loading area, but I believe they already have loading covered for all the buildings adjacent to 15th. Between the alleys, building loading zones, or on named street loading zones I cannot think of a building on 15th that would have issues.

In my experience delivery drivers just tend to park in the most convenient spot that they think they can get away with parking at (not isolated to bike lanes).

bcp · #**6133** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 11:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dirt

It might be tricky as people parking their cars will frequently block the bus lane.

they need to move their butts quickly then...that's life in the big city.

bcp · #**6134** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 11:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

they need to move their butts quickly then...that's life in the big city.

nevermind...I like 3A - onstreet preserved on one side (and a good buffer for bikes) and between the transit stations on the right it would be expanded sidewalks to 15'.

why do you have all those clouds in the rendering...c'mon man - this is Denver..eternal sunshine. ;-)

bobg · #**6135** Posted **Dec 10, 2013, 11:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

why do you have all those clouds in the rendering...c'mon man - this is Denver..eternal sunshine. ;-)

It's smog from the massive inversion we've had the past few days.

bunt_q · #**6136** Posted **Dec 12, 2013, 12:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobg

It's smog from the massive inversion we've had the past few days.

Was that sarcasm, or for real? (Serious question - I haven't been outside during daylight hours in three days.)

bobg · #**6137** Posted **Dec 12, 2013, 3:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Was that sarcasm, or for real? (Serious question - I haven't been outside during daylight hours in three days.)

Both?? It was an attempt at a joke in that I wouldn't intentionally put smog on the streemix. (Unfortunately my sense of humor is bad by genetics)

However, yes we have had really bad smog on and off. Especially on the days it was colder down here than in the mountains. Not so bad yesterday and today, but before that during the cold stretch on some days I couldn't see the mountains from downtown due to the smog.

bunt_q · #**6138** Posted **Dec 12, 2013, 3:41 AM**

I can't wait for summer. 14 hours of daylight means a person can actually get some of it.

RyanD · #**6139** Posted **Dec 12, 2013, 3:28 PM**

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm... Smog...... It's always worse in the winter isn't it?

bunt_q · #**6140** Posted **Dec 12, 2013, 4:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanD

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm... Smog...... It's always worse in the winter isn't it?

Guess we need some more cold-weather cyclists to reduce those emissions.