YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by deasine

Elaborate please. Why would a South America-China traffic positioning affect Seattle? SEA has no flights to South America either. If YVR ever becomes this transit hub, and I would be surprised if YVR ever gets close to YYZ in terms of being able to handle this type of traffic, this would be additional traffic and not take any traffic away from SEA.

Let me also add that while AC is not often cheaper than its American counterparts, flights from US to Asia via Vancouver are often cheaper than flights direct from Vancouver to the same destinations.

In my mind, it was just a question of getting the connection hub for China >< South America set up before Seattle gets the same idea.
At any rate, doesn't YVR have more Asian destinations than SEA-TAC, anyway? I hope so, because I'd hate to see them get the idea, implement it, and
thereby leaving YVR "out in the cold" (in this instance), since the Pacific NW could not support TWO Asia >< S. America transfer hubs. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Otherwise stated, if we got that configuration set up (before the possibility of Seattle doing it), it would render YVR a more important connection hub than it is now, and might even work the opposite way Delta planned it - drawing Seattle pax to YVR to go to South America. That's really all I meant.

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

In my mind, it was just a question of getting the connection hub for China >< South America set up before Seattle gets the same idea.
At any rate, doesn't YVR have more Asian destinations than SEA-TAC, anyway? I hope so, because I'd hate to see them get the idea, implement it, and
thereby leaving YVR "out in the cold" (in this instance), since the Pacific NW could not support TWO Asia >< S. America transfer hubs. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Otherwise stated, if we got that configuration set up (before the possibility of Seattle doing it), it would render YVR a more important connection hub than it is now, and might even work the opposite way Delta planned it - drawing Seattle pax to YVR to go to South America. That's really all I meant.

Seattle customs immigration is not as well setup as Vancouver. International transfers are easier to do in Vancouver.

From Victoria we do not have US Pre-clearance and the Alaska Airlines/Horizon flight from Victoria arrives at an international gate in Seattle.

I went through last month on a trip down to California. You get off the Q400, walk up into the terminal and then up into the international arrivals area. We where held in the corridor for a good 15 minutes because the immigration hall was to congested to handle another flight (our 75 Q400). We needed to wait for the one Delta flight to clear.

You then go through customs and immigration, get on a train to the next terminal where then walk across the corridor to get on yet another shuttle train to yet another terminal. This is all connecting from an Alaska (Horizon) flight to a mainline flight.

YVR has a better terminal setup. Short of massive changes to the multi-terminal layout at Seattle, YVR is the better transfer airport.

What Canada should do if it has not yet is offer fifth freedom rights to South American airlines through Vancouver to points in Asia.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by casper

Seattle customs immigration is not as well setup as Vancouver. International transfers are easier to do in Vancouver.

From Victoria we do not have US Pre-clearance and the Alaska Airlines/Horizon flight from Victoria arrives at an international gate in Seattle.

I went through last month on a trip down to California. You get off the Q400, walk up into the terminal and then up into the international arrivals area. We where held in the corridor for a good 15 minutes because the immigration hall was to congested to handle another flight (our 75 Q400). We needed to wait for the one Delta flight to clear.

You then go through customs and immigration, get on a train to the next terminal where then walk across the corridor to get on yet another shuttle train to yet another terminal. This is all connecting from an Alaska (Horizon) flight to a mainline flight.

YVR has a better terminal setup. Short of massive changes to the multi-terminal layout at Seattle, YVR is the better transfer airport.

What Canada should do if it has not yet is offer fifth freedom rights to South American airlines through Vancouver to points in Asia.

Thanks for that encouraging feedback. However, I fear that protectionist Ottawa will, firstly, want to maintain YYZ as the major, and perhaps only, exchange point between Asia and South America.

As an example, Calvin Rovinescu says he does not want YVR to be a "stub" airport, feeding into other hubs. He says a "solid base" should be developed by Air Canada. OK,
if this is the intention of AC, and it either starts routes from YVR to South America and if if Ottawa takes the daring step of granting fifth freedoms to Asia >< South America routes, the bottom line question may be: is this to protect Air Canada's routes into YYZ (and maybe YUL which doesn't absorb as many routes as YYZ, but has the best array of European connections;
*alliance Turkish just started flying there. there is already Turkish at YYZ and An upcoming double-daily YYZ > IST, à propos)....

OR ... would this benefit YYZ as well. It's a federal law, so it applies to YVR and YYZ, as is well-known.
If it means a profit for AC and YYZ, they'll probably go for it. ... IMHO

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Thanks for that encouraging feedback. However, I fear that protectionist Ottawa will, firstly, want to maintain YYZ as the major, and perhaps only, exchange point between Asia and South America.

As an example, Calvin Rovinescu says he does not want YVR to be a "stub" airport, feeding into other hubs. He says a "solid base" should be developed by Air Canada. OK,
if this is the intention of AC, and it either starts routes from YVR to South America and if if Ottawa takes the daring step of granting fifth freedoms to Asia >< South America routes, the bottom line question may be: is this to protect Air Canada's routes into YYZ (and maybe YUL which doesn't absorb as many routes as YYZ, but has the best array of European connections;
*alliance Turkish just started flying there. there is already Turkish at YYZ and An upcoming double-daily YYZ > IST, à propos)....

OR ... would this benefit YYZ as well. It's a federal law, so it applies to YVR and YYZ, as is well-known.
If it means a profit for AC and YYZ, they'll probably go for it. ... IMHO

All of these treats have different rules.

For example here is the one with Japan: http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=100225

It would permit a Japanese airline to operate 5th freedom beyond Vancouver to Brazil but not from Toronto. JAL did operate Tokyo-Vancouver-Mexico City some days of the week until it ran into financial problems.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by casper

All of these treats have different rules.

For example here is the one with Japan: http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=100225

It would permit a Japanese airline to operate 5th freedom beyond Vancouver to Brazil but not from Toronto. JAL did operate Tokyo-Vancouver-Mexico City some days of the week until it ran into financial problems.

Wheew!! Didn't know different cities in Canada have different rights like that.
Do any other asian Airlines have parallel 5th freedoms into YVR? (and not YYZ )

If so, couldn't it be a real meal deal, or is there a set of other restrictions keeping Vancouver out, and letting Toronto in?

[moosejaw]

Couldn't South American airlines feed into YVR to serve the asian market?
Lan Chile or TAM? They are pretty big.

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Wheew!! Didn't know different cities in Canada have different rights like that.
Do any other asian Airlines have parallel 5th freedoms into YVR? (and not YYZ )

If so, couldn't it be a real meal deal, or is there a set of other restrictions keeping Vancouver out, and letting Toronto in?

Some countries and regions have open skies. European airlines for example can operate to any Canadian international airport and Air Canada and WestJet can fly into any European airport.

You can try searching the other agreements. http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/search-recherche.aspx?type=10&page=TLA

I also looked at Malaysia (http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=100243):

the only airport in Canada that can be used to provide service to Malaysia is Vancouver, with an optional stop in Taipei. The agreement does not permit service to Toronto.

Looking at Peru: http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=103280

SECTION I

Route to be operated in both directions by the designated airline of the Government of Canada:

From Vancouver via points in Mexico, Cuba and Panama to Lima and/or Talara and beyond to Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo (Brazil) and such other points as may be agreed by the two Contracting Parties.

SECTION II

Route to be operated in both directions by the designated airline of the Government of the Republic of Peru:

From Lima via points in Ecuador, Panama, Cuba and Mexico to Vancouver and points beyond to be agreed by the two Contracting Parties.

There are lots of unused rights to service Vancouver, (any many exclude Toronto). The reason these flights are not operating may have more to do with the economic viability than government restrictions.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by casper

Some countries and regions have open skies. European airlines for example can operate to any Canadian international airport and Air Canada and WestJet can fly into any European airport.

You can try searching the other agreements. http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/search-recherche.aspx?type=10&page=TLA

I also looked at Malaysia (http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=100243):

the only airport in Canada that can be used to provide service to Malaysia is Vancouver, with an optional stop in Taipei. The agreement does not permit service to Toronto.

Looking at Peru: http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=103280

SECTION I

Route to be operated in both directions by the designated airline of the Government of Canada:

From Vancouver via points in Mexico, Cuba and Panama to Lima and/or Talara and beyond to Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo (Brazil) and such other points as may be agreed by the two Contracting Parties.

SECTION II

Route to be operated in both directions by the designated airline of the Government of the Republic of Peru:

From Lima via points in Ecuador, Panama, Cuba and Mexico to Vancouver and points beyond to be agreed by the two Contracting Parties.

There are lots of unused rights to service Vancouver, (any many exclude Toronto). The reason these flights are not operating may have more to do with the economic viability than government restrictions.

Very informative. Thank you very much.
We have a potential, uncontested route to Malaysia, it seems. KL, anybody?

The possible airlines for the Vancouver >< Lima run seems to be at first AC, but Peruvian is mentioned in Article2

This is confusing.

Will Lima (and for Vancouver, it's the most logical, being almost westermost in a southeastern continent) be the main route, with connecting services to Rio, San Paolo etc, or would there be seperate routes operated by AC?
(That I VERY MUCH doubt)
I understand that both Peruvian and AC have options into a number of "intermediate" points south of Mexico.

And what about Chile? Nothing there at all? No LAN Chile or AC Santiago run possible?
A lot of copper mining there, and the value of humble copper is going way up due to its widespread use in electronics, as everyone knows.
And when I've asked what the economic base of Vancouver really was, I was told mining.
It's said that the mining interests in the Andes are booming, and that would
surely generate yield, unless the airlines' operating cost is too high.

Calin Rovanescu said he didn't want too many airlines at YVR, but preferred a strong AC hub there.
Here's part of his chance to do just that, as long as the profit is there. Surely.

[Kapten]

I just saw an ad on Canada Line for Fiji tourism. The ad included the Fiji Airways logo. Will they be coming back to YVR? They once flew here as Air Pacific...

[Johnny Aussie]

Here is the official press release from ANA.

http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/press/2013/pdf/131209.pdf

Daily 767-300ER effective 30 March 2014

HND - YVR NH116 dep 2155 arr 1455
YVR - HND NH117 dep 1655 arr 1905 +1

This will be YVR's 19th international airline

No word about AC JV yet... I assume that will be released shortly.

So tick that rumour off the list... next!

And here is YVR's press release ----> http://yvr.ca/en/flight-information/late...ys_First_Flight_to_Canada-473116419.aspx

[trofirhen]

Johnny, thank you once again.

I think this post is going to make a lot of people very happy.

[deasine]

Yay!

[Prometheus]

In case this hasn't been posted yet:

Virgin Atlantic to increase summer traffic between Vancouver and London

By Tricia Lo

Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:50am PST

After seeing an 18% increase in passenger volume from 2012 to 2013, Virgin Atlantic will be adding a seasonal fifth weekly flight from Vancouver to London Heathrow Airport.

“We currently run a seasonal service four times a week from London Heathrow to Vancouver and we are delighted at its popularity,” said Edmond Rose, director of airline planning at Virgin Atlantic.

“To meet this demand we have taken the decision to introduce a fifth weekly service next summer, resulting in a strong increase in the number of seats available for holiday makers looking for a getaway to British Columbia.”

It will result in more than 2,000 additional seats to and from Vancouver during peak summer months. Currently, flights operate on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday.

Since its Vancouver service launched in 2012, Virgin Atlantic has carried more than 17,000 passengers to Vancouver. “The North American market has always been at the core of our business,” Rose said.

The added Sunday flight will launch on May 22, 2014 and will run through to Oct. 11, 2014. Additional flight services will go on sale online at www.virginatlantic.com beginning December 11.

http://www.biv.com/article/20131210/BIV0...ase-summer-traffic-between-vancouver-and

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Here is the official press release from ANA.

http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/press/2013/pdf/131209.pdf

Daily 767-300ER effective 30 March 2014

HND - YVR NH116 dep 2155 arr 1455
YVR - HND NH117 dep 1655 arr 1905 +1

This will be YVR's 19th international airline

No word about AC JV yet... I assume that will be released shortly.

So tick that rumour off the list... next!

And here is YVR's press release ----> http://yvr.ca/en/flight-information/late...ys_First_Flight_to_Canada-473116419.aspx

Originally Posted by Prometheus

In case this hasn't been posted yet:



http://www.biv.com/article/20131210/BIV0...ase-summer-traffic-between-vancouver-and

YVR is rocking right now and so is this thread. Wooo

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Denscity

YVR is rocking right now and so is this thread. Wooo

Yes it is. There seems to be a bit of momentum picking up.

And I am pretty sure there is a bit more on the horizon.

I will have to prepare a summary of changes soon. :-)

[Kapten]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yes it is. There seems to be a bit of momentum picking up.

And I am pretty sure there is a bit more on the horizon.

I will have to prepare a summary of changes soon. :-)

Like you I'm still waiting on the airport authority to issue a press release celebrating Delta's expansion @ YVR.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yes it is. There seems to be a bit of momentum picking up.

And I am pretty sure there is a bit more on the horizon.

I will have to prepare a summary of changes soon. :-)

Originally Posted by Kapten

Like you I'm still waiting on the airport authority to issue a press release celebrating Delta's expansion @ YVR.

and I'm waiting to hear more about the theoretical-but-seeminly plausible likelihood of YVR becoming that China >< South America connection hub !!

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I will have to prepare a summary of changes soon. :-)

That'd be much appreciated. For those like me who are a little less in tune with YVR and the industry (constantly having to google the acronyms you guys use) it's tough to keep up lately.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Here is the official press release from ANA.

http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/press/2013/pdf/131209.pdf

Daily 767-300ER effective 30 March 2014

HND - YVR NH116 dep 2155 arr 1455
YVR - HND NH117 dep 1655 arr 1905 +1

This will be YVR's 19th international airline

No word about AC JV yet... I assume that will be released shortly.

So tick that rumour off the list... next!

And here is YVR's press release ----> http://yvr.ca/en/flight-information/late...ys_First_Flight_to_Canada-473116419.aspx

Woo hoo! Good trade! I'll take NH for AC any day!

Also of note, a new flight to Hanoi.

A great transfer window from Hanoi - Haneda - YVR. 50 minutes transfer. Totally doable in Japan.
On the way to Hanoi, it would require an overnight airport stay in Tokyo.

[Johnny Aussie]

According to this article about Westjet pilots rejecting their new tentative agreement... I saw this paragraph down towards the bottom.

Ricardo Miranda is leading CUPE’s organization drive at WestJet, and said the flight attendants have many of the same concerns the pilots do, including the impact opening bases in Toronto and Vancouver in 2014 will have on them.

Another good sign of Westjet's commitment to YVR and its growing base there.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/you...t+tentative+agreement/9228727/story.html