Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

However, the pre-existing presence of the sports facility at Lansdowne provided a Trojan horse that allowed OSMUG to propose to add a shopping centre, cinema, offices and condos, where it is obvious there is inadequate parking, transit and road capacity to accomodate all the new users on a daily basis.

The proponents say there's enough parking onsite, and the rest of the users will come by other means, or via satellite lots and shuttles for major events. If that's so, then why did the City survey surrounding residential streets to enumerate potential parking spaces, unless they expect those residential streets to become permanent overflow parking to make up for the deliberate under-provision of onsite parking capacity in relation to the overbuilding of amenities at Lansdowne?

What the hell is wrong with letting people park on your street?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

However, the pre-existing presence of the sports facility at Lansdowne provided a Trojan horse that allowed OSMUG to propose to add a shopping centre, cinema, offices and condos, where it is obvious there is inadequate parking, transit and road capacity to accomodate all the new users on a daily basis.

The proponents say there's enough parking onsite, and the rest of the users will come by other means, or via satellite lots and shuttles for major events. If that's so, then why did the City survey surrounding residential streets to enumerate potential parking spaces, unless they expect those residential streets to become permanent overflow parking to make up for the deliberate under-provision of onsite parking capacity in relation to the overbuilding of amenities at Lansdowne?

On this I think you are right. Just like the Byward market cheap Ottawans will fill the surrounding streets to avoid paying for parking. This will align the interests of the residents and Lansdowne to limit parking to 1 hour without permit.

[kevinbottawa]

Sorry to interrupt this fascinating discussion, but there are some new construction pics on the city website.





http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/planning-and-development/week-lansdowne

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Sorry to interrupt this fascinating discussion, but there are some new construction pics on the city website.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/planning-and-development/week-lansdowne

I welcome the interruption. Here are a couple more pictures:

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

...to add a shopping centre, cinema, offices and condos, where it is obvious there is inadequate parking, transit and road capacity to accomodate all the new users on a daily basis.

As determined by whom?

[S-Man]

Guess what, there's nothing EVIL about stores, movie theatres, offices and homes. Some people might even say, they're critical elements in making a city.

But, but, but - didn't your hear?! The Glebe already has all of those things....located just a short car ride away, according to a previous post by our illustrious Glebite.

[YOWflier]

I am deeply saddened to see all of the dead seniors, children, puppies, and kittens in those recent construction photos.

[Radster]

Only 7 months to go, I can't wait to park my car in the Glebe, then pop a beer with my buddy, start singing and walk in front of Alecz_Dad's house on Holmwood en route to the Fury games while blowing into my vuvuzuela, and do it again after the game en route to a bar, via Holmwood of course. About time we get professional soccer in Ottawa and downtown to boot!

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

ac888yow;6367230]I am deeply saddened to see all of the dead seniors, children, puppies, and kittens in those recent construction photos.

As a senior, I am touched by your concern.

I intend to lie on the grass of the urban park and bask in the sun. Please do not run me over with your bicycle or fling your Frisbee at my head.

[Boxster]

Watch were you lie down on the grass.....there are quite a few glebite dogs around.

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

As a senior, I am touched by your concern.

I intend to lie on the grass of the urban park and bask in the sun. Please do not run me over with your bicycle or fling your Frisbee at my head.

[umbria27]

Originally Posted by JFFournier

As determined by whom?

I don't think anyone really knows for sure whether there's enough parking or transit connections to support the new retail. I know at least one prospective tenant who is concerned about it. The recent skew towards retailers with a small local catchment (banks, drug stores) seems to reflect that concern.

But what can you do at this point? It's an experiment. The retail will either survive or not. Trinity or whoever the landlord is will have to deal with it. They'll either have to continue to find more locally oriented tenants or push to accelerate plans that encourage alternative transport - like the Clegg pedestrian bridge. As long as the risk is theirs, and not the city's I'm prepared to watch the experiment.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by umbria27

I don't think anyone really knows for sure whether there's enough parking or transit connections to support the new retail. I know at least one prospective tenant who is concerned about it. The recent skew towards retailers with a small local catchment (banks, drug stores) seems to reflect that concern.

But what can you do at this point? It's an experiment. The retail will either survive or not. Trinity or whoever the landlord is will have to deal with it. They'll either have to continue to find more locally oriented tenants or push to accelerate plans that encourage alternative transport - like the Clegg pedestrian bridge. As long as the risk is theirs, and not the city's I'm prepared to watch the experiment.

At least some of the retailers have bought parking spaces that will be for the use of their customers. I believe Whole Foods will offer 200 validated parking spots. They clearly know that their customers will be coming from all over the city, and will almost all be driving.

[umbria27]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

At least some of the retailers have bought parking spaces that will be for the use of their customers. I believe Whole Foods will offer 200 validated parking spots. They clearly know that their customers will be coming from all over the city, and will almost all be driving.

I'd heard the same thing about Whole Foods, a smart move on their part. There may be some people who take the bus to the grocery store, but they aren't in Whole Foods' demographic. The way I heard it those 200 spots were "reserved" for Whole Foods and that was spooking other big retailers. Whole Foods probably got a sweet deal as an early signer and marquis tenant. I wonder what the mechanics of that are. Will spots be truly reserved for Whole Foods shoppers or will the parking lot operator simply allow them to validate up to a certain # of hours a day?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by umbria27

I'd heard the same thing about Whole Foods, a smart move on their part. There may be some people who take the bus to the grocery store, but they aren't in Whole Foods' demographic. The way I heard it those 200 spots were "reserved" for Whole Foods and that was spooking other big retailers. Whole Foods probably got a sweet deal as an early signer and marquis tenant. I wonder what the mechanics of that are. Will spots be truly reserved for Whole Foods shoppers or will the parking lot operator simply allow them to validate up to a certain # of hours a day?

I was told that Whole Foods owns the spots and they will be directly below their store. I don't think they have revealed how exactly it will work. They may still not be decided. I doubt they will prevent others from parking there. I assume they will have a minimum purchase or they will have lots of people going to the movies and then buying a bottle of water to validate. The Toronto Whole Foods for example has a $25 minimum for validation.

Outside of game days I don't think the parking will be beyond capacity it will more be a question of people willing to pay for parking in order to go to the LCBO when they can park for free at one down the street. Ironically as the only retailer with citywide reach Whole Foods could probably charge for parking and many of their customers would still pay.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by umbria27

I don't think anyone really knows for sure whether there's enough parking or transit connections to support the new retail.

Alecz_dad seems to.

[alecz_dad]

I know the fellow in question. He lives on Holmwood, more or less directly across from the exit from the underground parking. He works from home and has to put up with many months of pile driving and other noise right across the street.

And unlike me, who lives around the corner, and can walk another way to try to ignore the growing carbuncles on Holmwood, it's right outside his door, so there is no escaping it.

The usual response on this forum is "If you don't like it, cash out and move." But he and his wife have lived there a long time. I see them out walking together. I don't know if they can afford to move. And certainly it's clear they don't want to.

So, the source of the outrage is likely that he, like many neighbouring residents, is still stinging from the high-handed thrashing they were delivered by the City. And since there was never any meaningful consultation throughout the process for Lansdowne, the few occasions there have been where City and OSMUG reps are obliged to trot out and explain themselves, that reservoir of hurt and anger comes out.

It's been clear from the outset that there has been zero interest in the concerns of the neighbours, and the only time OSMUG made any concessions was when the GCA and Holmwood Group threatened to drag it through a full -blown OMB appeal.

And the latest community meeting on Monday, clearly showed that anger is still simmering. And expanding away from the immediate surround of Lansdowne, as residents of Lakeview by Dows Lake were much in evidence to voice their concerns that their little street will be used to move hundreds of shuttle buses from Bronson to the Q.E. Driveway on game days.

But again, the response from the City and OSMUG was "too bad, that's the way it is."

Originally Posted by JFFournier

What was the cause of the outrage?

Quoted by phil235
And a bouncer. The last time around, it was volunteer committee members who had to physically remove the outraged gentleman from the room. Not really in the job description.

[alecz_dad]

Thank you for giving me that one YOWetal.

The assertion of the City and OSMUG has been that the special transportation measures they have planned for large events, and promotion of transportation demand management to reduce the number of people coming in their private vehicles for events and day-to-day, will mean that the onsite parking will be sufficient.

I think it will be interesting to see what the City's response might be to reducing existing 3-hr parking times on streets surrounding Lansdowne. I suspect they know the onsite parking will be insufficient and are relying on surrounding streets to be able to pick up the slack. But if the time limits are reduced to 1 hour, that will effectively make it impossible for movie-goers, football fans, or shoppers or diners planning to do anything more that a quick pickup, thus requiring them to either use the paid parking, or go to another shopping centre that has free parking.

So, it would make a lie of their claims that the intensity of facilities planned for Lansdowne can be accommodated without harmful effects on the existing community. Not that they care.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

On this I think you are right. Just like the Byward market cheap Ottawans will fill the surrounding streets to avoid paying for parking. This will align the interests of the residents and Lansdowne to limit parking to 1 hour without permit.

[JackBauer24]

So your neighbours can't afford to move and yet they live in the Glebe? They do realize that the Glebe is one of the highest priced areas in the city and experiences pretty much continuous annual growth, right? So it's unlikely that they can't afford to move. I'm sure they could move, they just don't want to move. But they've chosen to stay and deal with a few years of construction, which will ultimately increase the values of the surrounding homes (not that the Glebe has had issues with property values). Every choice has advantages and disadvantages, the noise is just part of the small disadvantages.

But here is what I don't understand from your sob story of construction disturbances - unless they kept Lansdowne as-is (which was a decrepit, eye-sore - even the anti-Lansdowne development crowd agreed that something had to be done with it) then there was going to be construction one way or another. So whether it was Minto building condos and a stadium or someone else building lord knows what, there would be noise coming from that site. This is just part of living in a central and desirable area.

If you and your neighbours truly despise having cars legally parked out from of your home on the street and you hate seeing any changes to your neighbourhood (pardon me, hate seeing any changes to your neighbourhood that you didn't have 100% input), then perhaps the Glebe isn't the right neighbourhood for you. In fact, there would be few areas in the city that would be a good fit for you since Ottawa is a growing city and there are new housing and other types of developments happening in all corners of the city.

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

I know the fellow in question. He lives on Holmwood, more or less directly across from the exit from the underground parking. He works from home and has to put up with many months of pile driving and other noise right across the street.

And unlike me, who lives around the corner, and can walk another way to try to ignore the growing carbuncles on Holmwood, it's right outside his door, so there is no escaping it.

The usual response on this forum is "If you don't like it, cash out and move." But he and his wife have lived there a long time. I see them out walking together. I don't know if they can afford to move. And certainly it's clear they don't want to.

So, the source of the outrage is likely that he, like many neighbouring residents, is still stinging from the high-handed thrashing they were delivered by the City. And since there was never any meaningful consultation throughout the process for Lansdowne, the few occasions there have been where City and OSMUG reps are obliged to trot out and explain themselves, that reservoir of hurt and anger comes out.

It's been clear from the outset that there has been zero interest in the concerns of the neighbours, and the only time OSMUG made any concessions was when the GCA and Holmwood Group threatened to drag it through a full -blown OMB appeal.

And the latest community meeting on Monday, clearly showed that anger is still simmering. And expanding away from the immediate surround of Lansdowne, as residents of Lakeview by Dows Lake were much in evidence to voice their concerns that their little street will be used to move hundreds of shuttle buses from Bronson to the Q.E. Driveway on game days.

But again, the response from the City and OSMUG was "too bad, that's the way it is."

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

I know the fellow in question. He lives on Holmwood, more or less directly across from the exit from the underground parking. He works from home and has to put up with many months of pile driving and other noise right across the street.

And unlike me, who lives around the corner, and can walk another way to try to ignore the growing carbuncles on Holmwood, it's right outside his door, so there is no escaping it.

The usual response on this forum is "If you don't like it, cash out and move." But he and his wife have lived there a long time. I see them out walking together. I don't know if they can afford to move. And certainly it's clear they don't want to.

So, the source of the outrage is likely that he, like many neighbouring residents, is still stinging from the high-handed thrashing they were delivered by the City. And since there was never any meaningful consultation throughout the process for Lansdowne, the few occasions there have been where City and OSMUG reps are obliged to trot out and explain themselves, that reservoir of hurt and anger comes out.

It's been clear from the outset that there has been zero interest in the concerns of the neighbours, and the only time OSMUG made any concessions was when the GCA and Holmwood Group threatened to drag it through a full -blown OMB appeal.

And the latest community meeting on Monday, clearly showed that anger is still simmering. And expanding away from the immediate surround of Lansdowne, as residents of Lakeview by Dows Lake were much in evidence to voice their concerns that their little street will be used to move hundreds of shuttle buses from Bronson to the Q.E. Driveway on game days.

But again, the response from the City and OSMUG was "too bad, that's the way it is."

Why on earth can't you just be a decent human being and let people park on your streets for 9 nights of the year?

This is a ridiculous demonstration of how selfish people can be. Get out of Ottawa.

[JackBauer24]

Hear! Hear!
I'm sure other neighbourhoods have self-entitled people, but the density of these types of people in the Glebe is amazing. Within the city of Ottawa, you don't own the street in front of your home, you don't own the sidewalk in front of your home, heck, in most cases, you don't own the first 3'-4' feet of your lawn- it's owned by the city. So what if someone is parked there for a few hours on a week night or weekend? I wonder if these people, like Alecs Dad, write letters to mother nature for snowing too much and creating large snowbanks in front of their homes too.

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

Why on earth can't you just be a decent human being and let people park on your streets for 9 nights of the year?

This is a ridiculous demonstration of how selfish people can be. Get out of Ottawa.