Olympic Village & Southeast False Creek Updates Discussion

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Retail center? Hotels? Yaletown has both. How many more stores do you want? I'm glad there is very little retail on Marinaside. Apart from a few patios, it isn't necessary.



Those places are destined to be much busier in the summer. They will have plenty of regulars once the current crop of buildings under construction are occupied.

For Yaletown, I did say BETTER retail centre, and hotelS (not just one). A good multi-storey quality mini mall to enhance the area would be welcomed. I can't wait for the Pacific/Howe twisty building and stores/offices to be built, although personally that would be better suited for the Canada line station area. The proposed casino and Marriott hotel would be a great addition too,if they are ever approved. I don't think many Vancouverites how exciting this city could be, since we are 'in the edge of the continent'.

I just feel OV should be more alive since it is an extension of downtown. There are plenty of 'quiet neighbourhoods' coming up around the city for the future, namely East Fraser Lands, stretches of Cambie stretch, many parts of Main Street neighbourhoods, Kitsilano etc etc. OV, being at the crossroads for major transit systems, including the planned street cars, should be more vibrant than it is planned for right now. This is just my opinion, feel free to disagree but please, no unnecessary sarcasm.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by NewWester

Hey, I like Yaletown too. I just find it too busy for my tastes as a place to live and OV a bit quieter and more to my tastes. My point is that Vancouver is richer with Yaletown AND OV, and that OV/SEFC should not necessarily be scaled up to Yaltetown2.

Of course Vancouver is richer with Yaletown and OV, compared to what's sitting there before. However, it could be richer if these two neighbourhoods become internationally renowned for many aspects that fail to materialize. Yaletown became a model neighbourhood for North American cities where municipalities are trying to bring back people to the city centre, but it isn't up to marks in terms of retail and drawing tourists, etc. From what I see now, OV would be trailing Yaletown and the only legacy would be the blunder from City Hall, nothing more. If you want a downtown 'quiet neighbourhood', try the West End, full of ugly rental properties infested with silverfish, bed bugs, etc. Not a lot of new stocks of housing enter the neighbourhood for decades because residents want it to be quiet in perpetuity, and abhor changes and developments. We are creating another West End at OV.

Visionaries don't just build 'quiet neighbourhoods': plenty of those in New West, last time I checked. Ever consider living in the Victoria Hill, or even better, Port Royal hood? There is still a huge draw for people who want to be in a vibrant neighbourhood, and that includes me.

[theKB]

Don't get me wrong, I think yaletown could be great. Its a beautiful part of town which could be like a soho/tribeca. The problem is that MOST of the retail has the lifespan of a gnat because there really is no shopping traffic in that area and all the quaint little restaurants have left and we are left with Cactus/Earls/Milestones/The Keg/Glowbal chains which are fine and as discussed in other threads are CONSISTANT but they are all things you can find anywhere including most suburban strip malls.

The other problem with most of the restaurants down there (aside from cioppino and blue ribbon) they are all more focussed on selling alcohol than making amazing, creative food because in the end, booze pays the bills (so i don't fault them for that) it is just the nature of the beast.

Its the same with Robson, i bet gas town will follow soon enough and the OV is basically already there. Its a Vancouver problem. High rents and taxes prevent people from being passionate and creating unique things because the risks are just so high. Seattle has an amazing restaurant and shopping scene but thats because you can get a great space in a decent area for 5-12 grand a month where in yaletown you would be lucky to find a good space that would fit a restaurant for anything less that 20-30k/month.

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by Vin

Of course Vancouver is richer with Yaletown and OV, compared to what's sitting there before. However, it could be richer if these two neighbourhoods become internationally renowned for many aspects that fail to materialize. Yaletown became a model neighbourhood for North American cities where municipalities are trying to bring back people to the city centre, but it isn't up to marks in terms of retail and drawing tourists, etc. From what I see now, OV would be trailing Yaletown and the only legacy would be the blunder from City Hall, nothing more. If you want a downtown 'quiet neighbourhood', try the West End, full of ugly rental properties infested with silverfish, bed bugs, etc. Not a lot of new stocks of housing enter the neighbourhood for decades because residents want it to be quiet in perpetuity, and abhor changes and developments. We are creating another West End at OV.

Visionaries don't just build 'quiet neighbourhoods': plenty of those in New West, last time I checked. Ever consider living in the Victoria Hill, or even better, Port Royal hood? There is still a huge draw for people who want to be in a vibrant neighbourhood, and that includes me.

What a pleasant rhetorical style you have, Mr. Wolf. I do like the West End and the quieter options in New West (which is incidentally where I grew up and now live and which I think is the best part of Metro Vancouver outside of the city proper). But I still don't agree with you about SEFC and OV. Let Yaletown be Yaletown and let OV be OV and appeal to different types of people. I think there are a variety of metrics that define whether a neighbourhood is successful, and your view is perhaps too simplistic and narrow. The idea that we should be designing neighbourhoods for international attention and tourism is, I think, terrible urban design. I live and work here and I think that should come first.
(Besides, I think OV already has great tourist draw: The Sea Wall.)

[jlousa]

Exactly, if you design neighbourhoods for attention you've failed. You design to make things work, to be liveable, the attention will follow. A city is best built on a foundation of multiple neighbourhoods. A little something for everyone within each neighbourhood and a neighbourhood for everyone within the city. Neither Yaletown nor SEFC are prefect but they're both pretty good, and we're better for having them and it would be a shame to see the city try to replicate any one neighbourhood elsewhere.

[squeezied]

Vin, it sounds like you'd be better off living in Asia. I get the feeling you only like tall buildings simply for the sake of being tall.

Frankly I like OV the way it is and I also like YT the way it is. The are both appealing the way they are.

And I agree with the above that designing neighbourhoods for international attention and tourism is a terrible design. There's something subtle and refined about the OV that I more attractive than downtown. I suppose it's the pedestrian atmosphere and the attention to landscaping. My only complaint is that much of the buildings being built look all the same, but you can't really get away with that when they are being built around the same time.

I'm glad Vancouver isn't like China, Malaysia or Dubai with buildings that are tacky, ostentatious, unrefined and screams "Look at me! Look at me!!"

[spm2013]

Well the thing with OV is that it was a clean slate, so I guess there's always more complaints about something included or not included in the urban design. I don't think it's even a question of density or tall buildings...

[Laniatus]

Originally Posted by squeezied

My only complaint is that much of the buildings being built look all the same, but you can't really get away with that when they are being built around the same time.

I'm glad Vancouver isn't like China, Malaysia or Dubai with buildings that are tacky, ostentatious, unrefined and screams "Look at me! Look at me!!"

Everything in the OV looks too much the same, visually it's boring and doesn't draw people in from outside the OV. Beyond the towers, I feel the problem is the storefronts have no personality. I feel like the OV is not meeting its full potential.

That being said, I'm curious to drop by and check out the new Craft Beer Market in the Salt building. It's the only structure in the area that really stands out to me at a pedestrian level.

[memememe76]

I live in friggin' Surrey and I seek the OV out. When I take family to Chinatown or I have dinner with friends at some place along Main Street, I take them to the OV for an evening walk. When I run or bike around the Seawall, I always stop at the OV for a break.

I can't even understand how the Craft building is the only structure of interest on "a pedestrian level." When I run, I will *always* run over the Canoe Bridge. I always get a small thrill of pleasure when I cross it.

[hanko]

Originally Posted by Laniatus

I'm curious to drop by and check out the new Craft Beer Market in the Salt building. It's the only structure in the area that really stands out to me at a pedestrian level.

It is nice there and the beer is good too. This is just a comment from a patron and I am not associated with this establishment so please don’t see this as a spam.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by squeezied

Vin, it sounds like you'd be better off living in Asia. I get the feeling you only like tall buildings simply for the sake of being tall.

Frankly I like OV the way it is and I also like YT the way it is. The are both appealing the way they are.

And I agree with the above that designing neighbourhoods for international attention and tourism is a terrible design. There's something subtle and refined about the OV that I more attractive than downtown. I suppose it's the pedestrian atmosphere and the attention to landscaping. My only complaint is that much of the buildings being built look all the same, but you can't really get away with that when they are being built around the same time.

I'm glad Vancouver isn't like China, Malaysia or Dubai with buildings that are tacky, ostentatious, unrefined and screams "Look at me! Look at me!!"

No, I like tall and attractive buildings. Not just tall. For residential buildings, Vancouver's Yaletown and Coal Harbour towers are basically attractive, except that we have too many of the similar types. None of them screams 'look at me!' And I don't think I said that Vancouver should build tacky towers. Why don't you mention Melbourne, Brisbane or Singapore? Do you think buildings there are by and large tacky too?

Again what I've said is my personal opinion and I'm not pushing for anyone to agree with me.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by NewWester

What a pleasant rhetorical style you have, Mr. Wolf. I do like the West End and the quieter options in New West (which is incidentally where I grew up and now live and which I think is the best part of Metro Vancouver outside of the city proper). But I still don't agree with you about SEFC and OV. Let Yaletown be Yaletown and let OV be OV and appeal to different types of people. I think there are a variety of metrics that define whether a neighbourhood is successful, and your view is perhaps too simplistic and narrow. The idea that we should be designing neighbourhoods for international attention and tourism is, I think, terrible urban design. I live and work here and I think that should come first.
(Besides, I think OV already has great tourist draw: The Sea Wall.)

I respect your positive views about OV. For me, I would love to see something more. Of course I don't mean that we design for international attention, but for our own lusts of creativity and uniqueness. They would in turn attract the international crowd. We should push the limits to break out from the mould of mediocrity. And I too live and work here. By the way, Yaletown will not always be Yaletown as developers are pushing the limits to achieve something different, like the upcoming project at Howe and Pacific: can't wait!

[squeezied]

Originally Posted by Vin

We should push the limits to break out from the mould of mediocrity.

And is that the developer's fault or the city's for not allowing tall skinny buildings a la Yaletown?

[osirisboy]

I'm so sick of tall skinny buildings with those stupid townhouse podiums!

[Genauso]

A lot of these pictures aren't very good, but I'll post them once instead of in each building thread.












source: self

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by Laniatus

Everything in the OV looks too much the same, visually it's boring and doesn't draw people in from outside the OV. Beyond the towers, I feel the problem is the storefronts have no personality. I feel like the OV is not meeting its full potential.

I agree that it isn't meeting its full potential. But I feel like Opsal Steel and Central are encouraging nods in the right direction. And it is completely a shame that the neighbourhood isn't MUCH more patio intensive. (The one thing I wish Vancouver did more like European cities was embrace the sidewalk patio/beer garden concept.) But I feel like a few more punchy buildings and some better patios would go a long way to fixing it.

[officedweller]

Here's a few I took on Sunday as well:

West:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

and Meccanica and Opsal from GNW:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[officedweller]

Report regarding SEFC Neighbourhood Energy Utility:

http://former.vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20131210/documents/cfsc1c.pdf

Wow - base charge (capital and operating costs) will be $0.50 per sq metre per month, then energy usage is charged on top of that.

So if I were in SEFC instead of Yaletown, my 869 sq ft condo would be 80.7 sq metres = $40 per month base charge.
That seems pretty high.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Report regarding SEFC Neighbourhood Energy Utility:

http://former.vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20131210/documents/cfsc1c.pdf

Wow - base charge (capital and operating costs) will be $0.50 per sq metre per month, then energy usage is charged on top of that.

So if I were in SEFC instead of Yaletown, my 869 sq ft condo would be 80.7 sq metres = $40 per month base charge.
That seems pretty high.

in the OV units Enerpro is billing out for heating/cooling and hot water and those charges were insanely high especially considering how ineffective the heating system was in the townhouses. Overall energy charges for the OV seem to be on the high side of the spectrum IMO.

[sacrifice333]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Report regarding SEFC Neighbourhood Energy Utility:

http://former.vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20131210/documents/cfsc1c.pdf

Wow - base charge (capital and operating costs) will be $0.50 per sq metre per month, then energy usage is charged on top of that.

So if I were in SEFC instead of Yaletown, my 869 sq ft condo would be 80.7 sq metres = $40 per month base charge.
That seems pretty high.

It's supposed to be just shy of what the alternative options would be. Also, if I understand the NEU correctly, which I likely don't, it's heat transfer provides the energies needed to heat common spaces and common hot water usage NOT individual condominiums. The fees are then 'hidden' within your strata fees.