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  #5701  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 6:48 AM
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The Alta Gateway is an encouraging development. Finally, something more coolish like apartments built to the property line. However, I have one big complaint for this development and the Cowboy Partners development to the north along 500 west...there is no ground floor retail or restaurants! In order to really have that area be sustainable, they truly need to make it a mixed-use urban streetscape. The draw of living in an urban environment is the immediate walkability access to restaurants, stores, etc. I see that they are showing potential retail, hotel, etc. along 200 south, but they need it along 500 west and 100 south. It doesn't need to be the entire street frontage, but a shop or two at the corner and mid-block would be much better than nothing. Future Mayor, isn't this a mistake by the city zoning for that area? I had a friend move out of the Gateway apartments because he felt isolated. He said there was nothing around. There was the Gateway mall. But, the vibe on the backside of the Gateway, ie. 500 west is dead, despite the nice landscaped median.
     
     
  #5702  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 6:59 AM
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Nice development. I can't wait to learn more about the hotel at the North end.
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  #5703  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 7:10 AM
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By the way, I have been in town, and have taken some photos. The new courthouse is looking sleek, and I'm glad to say this: It has turned out to be much better than I thought it would be. It all came down to the refinement of the materials chosen and designed. The glass is perfect. The stainless steel exterior rods are perfect. The mirrored or polished metal of the inside portions of those exterior protrusions is classy. The photos I took at dusk really make this building look like a classic. I think we will all be proud of this building. It doesn't quite have that feel of an alienating presence that our knickname, The Borg Cube, suggested. Maybe even some, or most of you, might even agree with me, that we can refer to this building as something of respect, beauty, a monument to justice( am equal 4-sided boxy building sitting solidly on a plinth above street level), and something that has added value to the downtown presence on the south western end. I almost wish the Air 7 building was going to be built somewhere else. The glitzy color and light from the Air 7 will reflect on this refined monolith of our government.
     
     
  #5704  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 3:41 PM
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  #5705  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 7:31 PM
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I can't wait till they start developing that site. I agree that they should have thought about providing space for small shops. However, given the Gateway district's land still available for development/re-development, I am sure that later projects will keep retail space in mind. Also, the less land that is available, the more likely it is we will start to see and increase in height. Thank you for sharing Viperlord
     
     
  #5706  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 9:32 PM
DerrickSLC DerrickSLC is offline
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Food for Alta Gateway Thought

Encouraging to see a development with a large number of units going into the Gateway district.

Initial reaction:

Agree that a lack of retail, which will now stretch for two blocks along 500 West on both sides, is an issue. It's an essential element in building a desirable mixed-use neighborhood that urban dwellers seek, the convenience of a 5-10 minute walk for basic goods. It also limits the opportunity for local or small business growth. By including one or two spaces, preferably at the corner, it would add value and assist in sustaining the neighborhood into the future. It can be designed so that if the retail space doesn’t seem to be the proper function, it could be adapted into office use for a firm or small business.

Respect to the Downtown Community Council but it is not clear how a lack of retail should be applauded. The excess that was noted is assumed to be in the Gateway, a shopping mall, whose stores are not sufficient to meet daily needs of soon to be residents of Liberty Gateway and this future project.

Second, and most significant, is the length and height of the development. Walkability is one of the biggest issues the city faces due to the size of our blocks. Now this project will take up nearly 85% of a block face with only four stories of height? This is where zoning is failing us. These decisions have a lasting impact that will affect this neighborhood for generations. No, we are not New York City or San Francisco but why should we accept a four story building taking up an entire block face? In those cities, there are four, five, six buildings of various heights in that same exact amount of space. Even in our city, there is diversity of buildings along our street fronts. That is what creates variety, interest and mixed-use neighborhoods that are successful and what was thought to be the type of development pattern promoted and desired in the Gateway Plan.

Solutions to this would be to break up the single building; build separate buildings; add a floor, two floors in height that helps reduce the massive footprint, create an east-west midblock path between individual buildings... This development is disappointing in its vision and is an exact replica of the company’s other apartment projects, except that most of those are five stories tall.

This isn't a complaint but meant to be constructive in discussion. Why should it not be open to critique. There's a mentality that any development is good development; which is true, being there is an end result that provides housing (needed), brings in new taxes, etc... that is all beneficial to the city. But is it not fair to ask if we keep missing these opportunities because we do. As it stands the developer has met all zoning requirements. Why can't we ask developers for a better vision, a type of development that is forward-thinking and urban that meets our goals of creating a healthy, diverse and walkable city. Might this be the guiding conversation to the next phases of development in downtown and the Gateway district, most notably between the hub and Rio Grande, an area with an enormous potential that can truly define the type of city we want to be.
     
     
  #5707  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2013, 11:29 PM
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I agree, this is a lack of vision on both the developers part and the on the part of the zoning code. At least a couple of retail spaces should have been provided, and a mid block walkway e/w to intersect with the n/s mid-block that the developer is planning should have occurred. The developer obviously saw the need for a mid-block walkway from n/s, but were unable to think outside the box enough to come up with a new design to enable an e/w walkway at the same time.

I to am concerned about the height, again, lack of vision and simply making a buck rather than making $$ and creating a better project at the same time. There is NO reason for people to venture outside the Gateway on 100 S, unless they live there, because there is no amenities other than grass landscape to attract them over. With no retail development in both the Liberty Gateway and this new project, Gateway acts as a wall to the the west rather than a gateway to the west.

The third thing that bothers me is the lack of effort in mixing old and new construction in the same project, again not thinking outside the box, but using the same old cookie cutter development ideas that they have always used. I said it a few pages back, but why not blend a 6-7 story building on the north end of the block with the existing warehouse at mid-block, or place the e/w mid-block connector between the warehouse and the 6-7 story apartment structure on the corner. I would venture to guess that they could get higher rents from the remodeled warehouse portion than they would for the new construction portion.

I do like the general design of the building, but I can see the block facing 500 W being much more visually appealing in the following manner; a 6-7 story apartment building on the corner, (with corner and 1 or 2 retail spaces going west and south), an e/w mid-block pathway, then the 4 story warehouse, with a 6-7 story hotel on the corner of 200 S. Does that not sound much more visually appealing than 4 stories on 85% of the block face, no retail then a 6-7 story hotel?

As was stated, while development is nice, not all development is designed in a manner that encourages the creation of place.

I read through the staff analysis and I find some of there reasoning for approval is a bit weak, IMO. One section they describe not wanting a giant wall along the entirety of a block, the justification for approval is there are some architectural "setbacks" along the facade, with material changes and recessed balconies, combined with some height variations.

This would have been my answer after analysis. The variation in height along the entire structure is minimal creating an mostly even height along nearly the entire block, combined with no sidewalk interactions besides the entry to the building and the two ingress/egress for the interior parking structure. Conclusion, this design creates a wall effect and should not be approved until further design modifications are completed.

Last edited by Future Mayor; Nov 30, 2013 at 11:54 PM.
     
     
  #5708  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 12:19 AM
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I found myself out and about this afternoon with some time to kill, so I took a few photos. I didn't feel like fighting the sun too much, so some of the photos are a little blown out. Sorry for that. So, some updates...

The recently finished Cityscape Apartments on 4th East




The new Boyer Office building





LaPorte Project on State Street




Capitol Theater Addition



New Building next to what will the Air Center




Hotel across from Arena



Liberty Gateway





Last edited by scottharding; Dec 1, 2013 at 12:31 AM.
     
     
  #5709  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 12:39 AM
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Ground floor retail / building height

I don't think it makes sense to have the entire ground floor as retail with the current vacancy rates in that area, as long as there is ground level interaction with the street, which there seems to be from the elevations. Also the Leasing Office/Clubhouse on the corner of 100 south and 500 west will function basically as retail.

In terms of building height. I understand there is a good argument to build higher for the sake of density or efficiency, but it also seems that you start to become less efficient when your buildings become so tall that residents are no longer willing to take the stairs to get to their apartments. 4 floors is manageable. 6 or 7 floors becomes unbearable. Running an elevator each time a resident enters or exits the building seems like a huge energy 🞵🞵🞵🞵.
     
     
  #5710  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
By the way, I have been in town, and have taken some photos. The new courthouse is looking sleek, and I'm glad to say this: It has turned out to be much better than I thought it would be. It all came down to the refinement of the materials chosen and designed. The glass is perfect. The stainless steel exterior rods are perfect. The mirrored or polished metal of the inside portions of those exterior protrusions is classy. The photos I took at dusk really make this building look like a classic. I think we will all be proud of this building. It doesn't quite have that feel of an alienating presence that our knickname, The Borg Cube, suggested. Maybe even some, or most of you, might even agree with me, that we can refer to this building as something of respect, beauty, a monument to justice( am equal 4-sided boxy building sitting solidly on a plinth above street level), and something that has added value to the downtown presence on the south western end. I almost wish the Air 7 building was going to be built somewhere else. The glitzy color and light from the Air 7 will reflect on this refined monolith of our government.
My biggest issue with the new federal courthouse is its horrendous street engagement. It makes the building more secure, perhaps—but I don't know. It feels isolated.
     
     
  #5711  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 1:17 AM
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Those condos and apartments are nice, but my hell, for downtown can we get some height? West Temple, Main, and State hold all of our skyscrapers. Beyond that, not much. We got some midrises outside of those north long streets (which I'd like to see more of on the east side of DT) but then we've got a ton of low rise housing and hotel units. The new condos would fit better in South Jordan. It would take a lot more work, and it would cost much more, but it would be worth adding some real design and height. Look at Washington DC. That city did a great job with midrise condos and hotels.

The Gateway truly frustrates me. walkability is such big issue in SLC. I'm not impressed at all. In DC, every place had a restaurant in the base/lobby and most were locally owned. Jamba Juice was the largest food chain I saw. It was standard to have something in the front lobby. At least it's not in the DT core and more off to the west. Although I can guarantee it will be a big problem in the future.
     
     
  #5712  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 1:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
By the way, I have been in town, and have taken some photos. The new courthouse is looking sleek, and I'm glad to say this: It has turned out to be much better than I thought it would be. It all came down to the refinement of the materials chosen and designed. The glass is perfect. The stainless steel exterior rods are perfect. The mirrored or polished metal of the inside portions of those exterior protrusions is classy. The photos I took at dusk really make this building look like a classic. I think we will all be proud of this building. It doesn't quite have that feel of an alienating presence that our knickname, The Borg Cube, suggested. Maybe even some, or most of you, might even agree with me, that we can refer to this building as something of respect, beauty, a monument to justice( am equal 4-sided boxy building sitting solidly on a plinth above street level), and something that has added value to the downtown presence on the south western end. I almost wish the Air 7 building was going to be built somewhere else. The glitzy color and light from the Air 7 will reflect on this refined monolith of our government.
I can't say I'm a fan either. To me the design of this building screams exclusion and inequality rather than coming across as a monument to justice. It says to me justice is available for those who can afford it, much like healthcare or post secondary education, all of which are becoming less accessible to ordinary americans. I think it's a perfect symbol of what the Judicial system has become. A means of protecting the financial interests of those in power and maintaining the status quo.

It's a fortress whose main intent is keeping people out rather than offering justice to the citizens of this nation. Shouldn't a courthouse be inviting? It makes you question who they're trying to keep out?

If you haven't guessed I don't have much faith in our justice system.

Maybe I'm reading to much into the Borge Cube lol.
     
     
  #5713  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 1:52 AM
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Good God. Seriously people. Salt Lake City is NOT any other city. IT HAS and will continue to HAVE large blocks. Yes planners are working to change it up but the fact is that it will have those large blocks long after we are all dead. Appreciate Salt Lake City for what it is and has to offer. It is not Washington DC and will never be. It is not any other city any of you compare it to.

I for one like the project. Yeah, its only four stories, but look at all the land around in that area. Be realistic. there is no need for a tall residential structure in that area. Salt Lake isn't tight on land. I understand not liking a project and I appreciate the points of view, but comparing cities is not realistic. You can point out examples of what works...like the one make about Melbourne. I get that. it is constructive and informative. but this constant nagging about the blocks is exhaustive to read. How ever providing an idea, like making a small north to south street mid block to separate the two phases of the project. I guess I just can't stand cities being compared without providing a basis for it. basis in the sense of same density, economy, layout, etc...And as for the developers. They don't care how their project will affect the area decades to come. Money is the bottom line here...

Last edited by EPdesign; Dec 1, 2013 at 7:56 PM.
     
     
  #5714  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 1:55 AM
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Thank you Scottharding for posting those awesome pics
     
     
  #5715  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 2:00 AM
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I'm sorry they're so big. I couldn't remember how to make them smaller.
     
     
  #5716  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 4:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerboy View Post
I don't think it makes sense to have the entire ground floor as retail with the current vacancy rates in that area, as long as there is ground level interaction with the street, which there seems to be from the elevations.
I don't want the entire first floor to be retail, but one or two possible retail spots on 3/4 of a block shouldn't be to much to ask.

I looked closely at the street level and I don't see much street engagement. There is the entrance to the building, and the garage entrances, but other than that there isn't anything. If you look closely at the renderings there are a lot of doors to the first floor apartments, but you'll notice that they don't have gates they are simply fenced off balconies on the ground floor, no different than the balconies on floors 2-3, unless residents or visitors want to hope over the fence to get in. It's not like Parc at the Gateway, that has units with the entrance at the sidewalk, all those first floor residents and visitors will still have to enter through the building. To me that doesn't equal much street engagement.
     
     
  #5717  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 6:09 AM
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Yes, the big blocks are not going to change which is exactly the point of why one should scrutinize the type of development going through the approval process. This specific project does nothing to help fix or address our big block issue, which was the driving reason why the specific reaction was first written.

It’s expected there might be a counter response but will say it’s a bit more surprising than initially thought. There are many who care about the community and many of us are quick to judge new developments yet in this case there are valid points that should be recognized. There is a serious issue with the scale and size of this project compared to what the stated goals are for the Gateway district.

By no means does it have to be tall, and nowhere did anyone state that retail was necessary on the entire ground level. Agreed, we have TONS of developable land. That now being recognized, that's a big part of the problem. How we address it is by building development that helps break up the block with various buildings/building fronts, with architectural interest and diversity that creates a neighborhood (as in an actual neighborhood) that is urban in nature and design, not suburban which this development sadly exemplifies. Four very large buildings, not necessarily tall, could easily fit in the exact amount of space of this massive single structure four-floor apartment complex. That is what inhibits, not contributes to a walkable, desirable mixed-use neighborhood.

And yes, comparing cities is exactly what you do to improve and make a city better. We learn from each others strengths and weaknesses, through best practices of building, design and innovation. There are planners, designers, community partners and advocates in this city that are working to change this city for the better. There is a continual and ongoing process of information sharing amongst cities of what succeeds and what fails. This has become vital to the success of many programs in this city and cities throughout this country and the world. And in that, yes, it is very realistic.

It’s encouraged to pick up a book and read about what is taking place in cities and planning. Take a class on urban design, sustainability, land use analysis, walkability. Jeff Speck has a great book called “The Walkable City” with a number of prominent themes that are applicable to any downtown/city center, town center, neighborhood regardless of it's location. The more of us that can learn and become informed of what makes a better place will only help lead us to better development in the future.
     
     
  #5718  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 6:11 AM
DerrickSLC DerrickSLC is offline
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Originally Posted by EPdesign View Post
Good God. Seriously people. Salt Lake City is NOT any other city. IT HAS and will continue to HAVE large blocks. Yes planners are working to change it up but the fact is that it will have those large blocks long after we are all dead. Appreciate Salt Lake City for what it is and has to offer. It is not Washington DC and will never be. It is not any other city any of you compare it to.

I for one like the project. Yeah, its only four stories, but look at all the land around in that area. Be realistic. there is no need for a tall residential structure in that area. Salt Lake isn't tight on land. I understand not liking a project and I appreciate the points of view, but comparing cities is not realistic.
Everything will be okay.

Last edited by DerrickSLC; Dec 1, 2013 at 5:51 PM.
     
     
  #5719  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 1:12 PM
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Salt Lake County unveils new style in downtown’s historic theater


Grande Dame’s $6 million makeover is just first step in the city’s ongoing cultural opera.

By Ellen Fagg Weist - The Salt Lake Tribune

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/entertainment2/57163805-223/theater-capitol-building-says.html.csp



(Al Hartmann | The Salt Lake Tribune) After six months of renovation, the Capitol Theatre (now called the Janet Quinney Lawson Capitol Theatre) will be opening for the first Nutcracker performance on Dec. 6.

After a six-month intermission, a remodeled Capitol Theatre will open this week for its next act.

"She’s a grand woman," says Shar Quinney, who only uses female pronouns to refer to the newly renamed Janet Quinney Lawson Capitol Theatre building. "I’ve been in theaters all over the world, in some of the grandest and beautiful theaters, and she holds up."

The $6 million renovation is the first phase of a $33.4 million project that includes the construction of the adjacent Jesse E. Quinney Ballet Centre, scheduled to open in October 2014. "In the long run, it’s kind of a minor remodel in terms of what’s going to happen next," says Larry Holder, the theater’s head electrician...



New finishes on historic bones »

As Ballet West opens its 50th-anniversary run of "The Nutcracker," you’ll enter the theater through a newly carpeted, expanded lobby, with reconfigured spaces for the box office and patron services. A temporary concessions area will be in place until the new building opens.

Designers wove contemporary touches into the historic building, and historic influences into the design of the new building, says Emir Tursic, HKS vice president.

In the house, you’ll be guided to your seats with new aisle lighting before settling into newly upholstered seats — dressed in Champagne Currant crushed velvet — complete with cushions that have lumbar support.

"Immediately noticeable," says Melinda Cavallaro, associate division director for the county’s Center for the Arts.

"The seats are exquisite," adds Shar Quinney, who was head of Ballet West’s capital campaign.

As the show begins, dancers will be performing on a stage that was raised 6 inches to offer better sightlines. And you should be able to hear the orchestra better, thanks to a system of "adjustable acoustics" that allows sound to be projected differently for different performances, says consultant C. Russell Todd, of Akustiks a Norwalk, Conn., company.

You probably won’t notice how the room is tuned, with new acoustic panels in the orchestra pit, on the pit’s railings and under the box seats in the theater, which can be set differently for ballet, opera, or jazz or Broadway shows. For example, the ballet requires more natural sound, with more of the orchestra’s sound projected into the audience, while for operas, the sound of the pit musicians has to be balanced so it doesn’t overpower the singers onstage.

In addition, groups of musicians, such as the string section, can be positioned at different elevations on pit lifts to help balance the way their sound is projected into the house.

"The main change people will notice in the house is that we’ve dramatically reduced the mechanical system noise, particularly up in the balcony," Todd says. That’s thanks to new heating and cooling systems, which are different for the front and the back of the house — so it will be easier to keep the temperature for dancers near 72 degrees, as required by the performers’ union contract. "That’s always been a challenge in a 100-year-old theater," Currey says.


How the pit will be configured for opera performances
■
New orchestra pit rail panels will be closed — or “reflective” — to strike a balance between stage performers and musicians.
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New adjustable rear wall panels in the pit will be set to “absorptive.”
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Two new orchestra pit lifts will be raised in a stepped configuration, but positioned at a slightly lower elevation than the ballet setting, to balance sound between the orchestra and singers.
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New theater side panels will be opened to balance the sound of singers and orchestra players and to project out into the audience the sound of the singers. “We love the clarity coming out of the pit,” says Utah Opera artistic director Christopher McBeth, who attended the tuning session. In addition, musicians say they can hear themselves and their colleagues “1,000 times better.”


.

Last edited by delts145; Dec 1, 2013 at 7:57 PM.
     
     
  #5720  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2013, 3:36 PM
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The reason the courthouse is so far in from the street, is that they are trying to prevent massive damage from a car bomb. I read in some article, I think in the Sltrib.
     
     
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