The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by matt602

Yeah, I would have guessed the orange line based on how Toronto also puts the newest subway trains on the Yonge line (with the newest trains) so that they can step everything down and retire the oldest ones. Unfortunately my friends in Montreal live either at Verdun or Pie-IX so I don't have to get to the orange line too much...

I think the new trains were actually put on Yonge line because they have a higher capacity and Yonge is much more constricted than Bloor/Danforth.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I think the new trains were actually put on Yonge line because they have a higher capacity and Yonge is much more constricted than Bloor/Danforth.

True, but Yonge also got the T-1 trains first back in the late 90's, and the Yonge line is also the first line in the system.

It's like what came first the chicken or the egg? Obviously Yonge has capacity issues, and each new train design seems geared to addressing the overcrowding issues on Yonge, and then when the new design comes, the older models are shuffled down to the Bloor line.

I can forsee Yonge/Uni-Spadina always getting the new trains first for the near to long term.

[Chadillaccc]

Introducing Calgary newest rapid transit line! Only a BRT to start, built for easy conversion to rail. Once conversion begins, extensive tunnels will have to be built under downtown and likely under Centre Street. The line will be almost completely grade separated in the Southeast, only 3 intersections in the far south, though that phase is likely many years away. The city approved $520 million for the line today. The line looks to be about 35+ KM long.



How the southeast/north Green Line would roll

In the future — how distant? Hard to say — that busway would become the LRT route.

It’s not an LRT, but it’s the next best thing. Better than what passes for “bus rapid transit” (BRT) right now in Calgary.

If you’ve ever taken transit around Ottawa, you’ll know what Calgary is thinking of for the Green Line, the proposed line that now has $520 million behind it (though that’s not quite enough to fully build the route from Harvest Hills to Seton/south hospital). In some areas, but buses run next to car traffic in their own lanes. In other areas, there’s a special overpass or roadway built just for buses.

Full story: http://blogs.calgaryherald.com/2013/11/28/how-the-southeastnorth-green-line-would-roll/

[SteelTown]

Hamilton's RFP for a bike share program has concluded with a winner, Social Bicycles…

Staff have reviewed and evaluated all the proposals received, and have determined that Social Bicycles is the successful Proponent.

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/97FA9752-3B90-436F-8708-A663661B5B29/0/Dec0283PW13015b.pdf

Soon Hamilton will have 65 bike stations with 650 bikes across Hamilton.


http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/23/social-bicycles-hands-on/

Video Link

[Chadillaccc]

Stantec's proposal for the Southeast portion of the Calgary Green (203) Line. Comparing both LRT and BRT formats.

• Video Link

[Beedok]

BRT does have definite pluses with less transfers. I hope it works out for Calgary.

[Innsertnamehere]

LRT attracts many more riders though despite that.

[Chadillaccc]

Ottawa's does just fine. Plus we already have the most extensive LRT system in the country if not the continent.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Ottawa's does just fine. Plus we already have the most extensive LRT system in the country if not the continent.

Well...



I sit through this a couple of times a week when I have the misfortune of having to take the bus at rush-hour.
Capacity issues can quickly become a problem with BRT systems because buses have a maximum capacity much lower of that of LRVs (Ottawa's 120 crush load vs our future 600-person capacity LRVs), there need to be much more vehicles and an abundance of vehicles can quickly cause congestion, as we see on a daily basis here. And I don't know where people get the idea that BRT is easy to convert to LRT afterwards, because we in Ottawa can tell you that it is not convenient, nor cheap.

I must also admit that the quality of the ride in BRT just isn't quite up to scratch: the bus is loud, suffers from bumpy asphalt and is much more jerky than even the most basic of class-B LRT.

Bite the bullet, Calgary: build it right the first time 'round.

[Chadillaccc]

The downtown portion of ours will be UG, and the Southeast portion will be grade separated, except for at Seton, which likely won't be included in the first phase anyways.

There's still a chance they will build it as an LRT in one shot though. The city government already approved $520 million for the development, if the city decides to ask the provincial and federal governments to go in on a P3, that would give us $1 560 000 000, which would likely be enough to build the first phase which would include the subway and 3 - 5 underground stations.

[Aylmer]

Good - not grade-separating the downtown portion of the Tansitway was a huge, huge shortcoming (and now also a huge problem with Gatineau's Rapibus "BRT") and it'll put off capacity issues longer than it would have otherwise been the case.

[Chadillaccc]

Yeah. Even though it looks sort of grim right now, I'm confident the city administration will pull through. Calgary is going to be 2 million people in 20 years, we can't keep thinking like a city of 750 000. Plus we have Nenshi who has been nothing but incredible for us, so that makes me even more confident.

[Innsertnamehere]

if you are going to underground it, its probably best to use LRT. don't have to deal with ventilation issues as much that way.

[ssiguy]

Both LRT and BRT have their advantages but if the money isn't there for LRt then it makes the decision pretty easy.

Besides this can certainly create high demand and equally as fast service as an LRT when it is nearly totally grade separated like this line will be. You can't compare it to downtown Ottawa as Calgary's major downtown routes are LRT.

BRT can be very fast as Ottawa's Transitway proves and does do away with the dreaded "last mile" that you get with rail transit. It is better to build a true rapid and large BRT line than a short LRT for the same amount of money serving far fewer people and destinations.

[Innsertnamehere]

what I am trying to say however is that because of increased tunnelling costs (much larger tunnels, huge complicated ventilation systems to get rid of diesel exhaust, etc) it may only be marginally more expensive to do LRT, and given the added benefits of it being rail, and the additional ridership it attracts simply because it is rail, it may be smarter to go with LRT. despite a worse last mile, more people will use the system. Same thing with Toronto and the Scarborough subway. it has 3 stops compared to the LRTs 7, meaning the last mile will be worse, but it will still get much higher ridership. (as in up to 5,000 PPHD more)

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

True, but Yonge also got the T-1 trains first back in the late 90's, and the Yonge line is also the first line in the system.

It's like what came first the chicken or the egg? Obviously Yonge has capacity issues, and each new train design seems geared to addressing the overcrowding issues on Yonge, and then when the new design comes, the older models are shuffled down to the Bloor line.

I can forsee Yonge/Uni-Spadina always getting the new trains first for the near to long term.

Yonge got the T1 because it was running M1s nd H1swhile Bloor Danforth had H4s & H5s. The original Gloucesters were running exclusively on Yonge up until the late 80s. I believe even after the T1 delivery, Yonge still had the oldest trains in service.

This is the first time in history where the yellow line has the newest equipment

[Innsertnamehere]

When the T1s get replaced in 2023 I have a feeling the B-D line will get the Rockets and They will buy slightly longer trains for Yonge to further maximize capacity. they are currently 6 cars long, but the platforms can handle about 6.5 cars length. adding that .5 car could do a lot for capacity issues on Yonge.

[caltrane74]

I've been riding the subway a lot later the past few weeks, and I'm loathe to remember if the trains were as packed at 11:30pm 10 years or 20 years ago as they are now.

Before it was rare to get a train that was packed at that time of night , now the rarity is getting a train with seating at the later hours. This is both Bloor and the Yonge lines... Standing room only.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

what I am trying to say however is that because of increased tunnelling costs (much larger tunnels, huge complicated ventilation systems to get rid of diesel exhaust, etc) it may only be marginally more expensive to do LRT, and given the added benefits of it being rail, and the additional ridership it attracts simply because it is rail, it may be smarter to go with LRT. despite a worse last mile, more people will use the system. Same thing with Toronto and the Scarborough subway. it has 3 stops compared to the LRTs 7, meaning the last mile will be worse, but it will still get much higher ridership. (as in up to 5,000 PPHD more)

You raise a good point; Ottawa looked at the possibility of building a bus tunnel instead of lrt, and although they didn't do a detailed cost study, they estimated that a bus tunnel would have been around double the cost.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

When the T1s get replaced in 2023 I have a feeling the B-D line will get the Rockets and They will buy slightly longer trains for Yonge to further maximize capacity. they are currently 6 cars long, but the platforms can handle about 6.5 cars length. adding that .5 car could do a lot for capacity issues on Yonge.

That would be great for that area. Won't the new signalling system also improve capacity as well?