Tunney's Pasture Redevelopment

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by monkeybongo

The distribution of residential looks pretty interesting. I still think it'll be a ghost town after 5PM as it's still a bit separated from Wellington for foot traffic. I suppose Parkdale or Holland will be eventually be developed to connect the areas.

I like that the residential is spread out in the area as opposed to solely being along Parkdale. As I mentioned before, there should really be a concerted effort to make Tunney's Pasture Driveway a true boulevard with cafes, shops, restaurants, etc. along its flanks. This would not only carry on retail development along Holland, but will project into the site, enabling retail and other shops to arise on adjacent to the area, which is almost in the middle.

It could radiate out to Parkdale and the retail area they plan just north and west of the future LRT station. It would be able to do this thanks to the mix of businesses and retail spread out on the site, making for a lively new neighbourhood.

It would also present West Wellington/Hintonburg with a unique opportunity to bring urban style "big box" stores into the area without damaging the look, feel, and character of the neighbourhood. Something like a Best Buy, Future Shop, or The Source would be somewhat necessary and useful in the area, and there's more than enough space in Tunney's Pasture to put shops like those in the podium of an office or condo building on the site, and could be a major anchor like MEC in Westboro.

I see so many opportunities in this site, and it routinely disappoints me to see we're not jumping on them.

Ottawa's not boring; it's just unimaginative.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

I like that the residential is spread out in the area as opposed to solely being along Parkdale. As I mentioned before, there should really be a concerted effort to make Tunney's Pasture Driveway a true boulevard with cafes, shops, restaurants, etc. along its flanks. This would not only carry on retail development along Holland, but will project into the site, enabling retail and other shops to arise on adjacent to the area, which is almost in the middle.

It could radiate out to Parkdale and the retail area they plan just north and west of the future LRT station. It would be able to do this thanks to the mix of businesses and retail spread out on the site, making for a lively new neighbourhood.

It would also present West Wellington/Hintonburg with a unique opportunity to bring urban style "big box" stores into the area without damaging the look, feel, and character of the neighbourhood. Something like a Best Buy, Future Shop, or The Source would be somewhat necessary and useful in the area, and there's more than enough space in Tunney's Pasture to put shops like those in the podium of an office or condo building on the site, and could be a major anchor like MEC in Westboro.

I see so many opportunities in this site, and it routinely disappoints me to see we're not jumping on them.

Ottawa's not boring; it's just unimaginative.

It would be nice for there to be planning for commercial along that path, but isn't that greenspace protected under a heritage act or view plan or something? They figured for now putting retail around the public square is there best bet for a successful area. I'm holding my breath, but as the area grows they said ground floors should have higher ceilings so that it could be taken over for more retail. For now, they've just put this much because they know it will be successful without taking much of a risk.

Some stores would be nice, but I'm not too keen on big box stores (article about Wal-Mart in small towns). Some things are needed, but it would be better to see smaller, more local stores that can services our needs.

I agree with your last statement though: we not creative enough. Hopefully some of these projects will galvanize architects and designers, as well as planners, to step up their game.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by defishel

It would be nice for there to be planning for commercial along that path, but isn't that greenspace protected under a heritage act or view plan or something? They figured for now putting retail around the public square is there best bet for a successful area. I'm holding my breath, but as the area grows they said ground floors should have higher ceilings so that it could be taken over for more retail. For now, they've just put this much because they know it will be successful without taking much of a risk.

I'm not even talking about touching the greenspace. I'm talking about building the necessary infrastructure behind the green so pedestrians can enjoy some shade in the warm months. However, upon taking a cursory glance of the site area through Google, the keeping of certain buildings would make this plan unfeasible.

Some stores would be nice, but I'm not too keen on big box stores (article about Wal-Mart in small towns). Some things are needed, but it would be better to see smaller, more local stores that can services our needs.

Except if you go back and read what I wrote, I didn't even mention Wal-Mart. In the immediate area, you have a bunch of good restaurants, some "odds and ends" stores, a hardware store, a thrift store, and a theatre.

What we DON'T have is a proper electronics store/video game store/appliance store, hence my suggestion of Future Shop/Best Buy/The Source to fill in those needs and to act as an anchor tenant for the region.

I agree with your last statement though: we not creative enough. Hopefully some of these projects will galvanize architects and designers, as well as planners, to step up their game.

I doubt it, but it's nice to hope.

In any case, I rushed this out to show how even some minor changes can greatly improve the site and how it's used:



Since retail is likely to expand along Chardon Driveway, I set out to find a way to bring people to the "boulevard" while also bringing them north and connecting them with the John Ceprano Rock Sculptures that are just north of Tunney's Pasture.

I put in a hockey rink and public/open space up at the north end of the site (A) which serves as the northern anchor and draw. A path connects to the TransCanada Trail that in turn connects to the sculptures, which at this area is only a few minutes away if you walk.

I retain the water feature which runs along the central islands of TPD (Tunney's Pasture Driveway), with an adjacent path and numerous trees to be planted in the area, as well as flower beds. Along the length of the winding path and water feature, will be art installments, courtesy of artists in the neighbourhood and benches to sit and enjoy the scenery. At the north end, the water feature ends as a vista of a central and distinct sculpture/art piece/fountain/statue/etc. that will sit on the island that joins TPD and Columbine (B).

In an attempt to tie in the retail area, I've expanded it with the notion that in the podium for those office/residential buildings on that block could exist a Future Shop/Best Buy/The Source (C), serving as a draw to the area and ensuring the survival of the retail area.

This way, you have draws in the north and south that tie the whole site and surrounding area together, and we still get a water feature and semi-proper boulevard. And that's all from just working within the parameters of the current plan.

[Mikeed]

I've always argued that rather then spending a billion dollars on the old nortel campus for DND (which wouldn't even consolidate DND under one building) they should consolidate DND onto Tunney's Pasture because it's an environment that could be easily secured.

This vision for Tunney's def loses the idea of having a controlled environment with the amount of residential and commercial planned for the area.

Tunney's Pasture IMO should be a secondary CBD (without hight limits).

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

I've always argued that rather then spending a billion dollars on the old nortel campus for DND (which wouldn't even consolidate DND under one building) they should consolidate DND onto Tunney's Pasture because it's an environment that could be easily secured.

This vision for Tunney's def loses the idea of having a controlled environment with the amount of residential and commercial planned for the area.

Tunney's Pasture IMO should be a secondary CBD (without hight limits).

With it being a major transit hub, that will only become more prominent as time goes by and LRT is implemented. We'll likely see Tunney's Pasture emerge as a second CBD in the next 20-30 years, and maybe even the Booth St. Complex will be becoming another mini-CBD as well.

[J.OT13]

DND should move out of the inner greenbelt completely IMO. Tunney's has too much potential to flounder on Fort Knox North 2.0. And yes, Tunney's should be a second CBD. I want to be able to dump someone who doesn't know Ottawa in the middle of the Pasture and have them think there Downtown.

I would like something like Canary Wharf or La Défence but on a smaller scale with more mixed use.

Anyway, Darwin's take. He's surprisingly positive about this one;

http://www.westsideaction.com/tunneys-pasture-new-master-plan-concept-plan/

He states that Tunney's is the third largest employment centre. Which one would be considered the second? Hull, Kanata, Booth or Confederation Heights?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

I like how they spread the residential around, but I'm disappointed that they didn't keep the proposed water feature. Also, there's a real opportunity here to turn the "Tunney's Pasture Driveway" into a proper boulevard, lined with shops, cafes, etc., rather than just open space/trees.

y u h8 the openspactrees for all canadians?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

y u h8 the openspactrees for all canadians?

Because in Canada there's already enough of that shit to go around.


Seriously though, everywhere I go, trees. Every five to ten minute walk away from me are parks or greenspace. A fifteen minute drive north or south drops me in forest, and I live in an urban neighbourhood.

This is part of why it infuriates me that when asked about what they wanted to see for Ottawa in 2017, a significant amount of people wanted "more parks and more greenspace". How about usable greenspace, urban greenspace, and urban design and environments, and better walkability?

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

And yes, Tunney's should be a second CBD. I want to be able to dump someone who doesn't know Ottawa in the middle of the Pasture and have them think there Downtown.

I would like something like Canary Wharf or La Défence but on a smaller scale with more mixed use.

They need to implement a Like button on this forum. Totally agree with this comment.

[Boxster]

Like Buttons:

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

They need to implement a Like button on this forum. Totally agree with this comment.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Because in Canada there's already enough of that shit to go around.


Seriously though, everywhere I go, trees. Every five to ten minute walk away from me are parks or greenspace. A fifteen minute drive north or south drops me in forest, and I live in an urban neighbourhood.

This is part of why it infuriates me that when asked about what they wanted to see for Ottawa in 2017, a significant amount of people wanted "more parks and more greenspace". How about usable greenspace, urban greenspace, and urban design and environments, and better walkability?

Yes and no. We don't need to turn ever available land in the city into greenspace, especially if we want and need to get more people into the urban area.

However, humans do need greenspace to stay happy and healthy. I'm reading a book that said in order for people to feel happier they need to be able to see greenspace often. We need to be able to see a park or forest or mountains (in Ottawa's case the Gatineau Hills, which are spectacular if viewed from high up) and we need to be able to interact with it to stay healthy. We need to be able to go for walks in parks and sit under trees to do stuff. So we could always use more parks and greenspace, especially in our downtown. Trees along streets, vacant lots turned into parks or space for urban agriculture.

I think we need a good distribution of buildings, public squares and greenspace.

That being said, I totally understand what you mean when people say they want more greenspace instead of buildings. When I went for the Scott Street planning meeting to make suggestions, we broke off into smaller groups and I suggested that the city should look to covering the transit trench (wouldn't cost as much as actually burying the LRT because it's essentially already dug), and then they could use that addition space for buildings to house more people. But someone said they should turn it into greenspace, despite the fact that it would provide more room for people and jobs (and stores) without having to demolition people's homes to intensify. As well, we don't need that much greenspace there.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Because in Canada there's already enough of that shit to go around.

I was making a funneh. I am with you: pave the damn greenspace!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by defishel

However, humans do need greenspace to stay happy and healthy.

I wonder how desert or arctic people stay happy and healthy?

I'm reading a book that said in order for people to feel happier they need to be able to see greenspace often.

You can put anything in a book these days.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I wonder how desert or arctic people stay happy and healthy?



You can put anything in a book these days.

Who says they are? There is some greenspace in the tundra, but last I heard a lot of people who live farther up North have a lot more mental and physical health problems, and it's not just because of the economy and lack of affordable foods.

The book was talking about a few studies conducted, as well as I've read some that mention how important greenspace is to people's physical, psychological well-being, as well as the developmental well-being of children. People who lived in larger, congested and crowded cities with little greenspace are less happy than those who have some greenspace nearby. Not to mention it makes sense, as how many years ago did humans leave leafy jungles and start living in concrete ones? Nature is still important to us, and we should incorporate into cities for our well-being. In fact there are many uses for greenery: they can protect usfrom cars if put alongside roads, and from the sun by providing shade; they can store water and cool cities; as well as help regulate CO2 emissions. And some greenspace can even feed us.

Hell, I'm all for more greenspace and more buildings, especially if we can put green roofs on top of them. Some of those empty lots in Centretown are perfect for more parks and agricultural land, just s much as others are perfect for buildings. We've got the space for both, why not build both?

[citydwlr]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

And yes, Tunney's should be a second CBD. I want to be able to dump someone who doesn't know Ottawa in the middle of the Pasture and have them think there Downtown.

I would like something like Canary Wharf or La Défence but on a smaller scale with more mixed use.

Most definitely agree!

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

They need to implement a Like button on this forum. Totally agree with this comment.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by defishel

Yes and no. We don't need to turn ever available land in the city into greenspace, especially if we want and need to get more people into the urban area.

However, humans do need greenspace to stay happy and healthy. I'm reading a book that said in order for people to feel happier they need to be able to see greenspace often. We need to be able to see a park or forest or mountains (in Ottawa's case the Gatineau Hills, which are spectacular if viewed from high up) and we need to be able to interact with it to stay healthy. We need to be able to go for walks in parks and sit under trees to do stuff. So we could always use more parks and greenspace, especially in our downtown. Trees along streets, vacant lots turned into parks or space for urban agriculture.

I'm not debating any of that, my point is that we already have so much, it's just underutilized because it's often just grass and trees, or a chunk of forest.

As I previously mentioned, there's nowhere I can go in my urban neighbourhood where there isn't greenspace. From my front porch, I can see part of Tunney's Pasture and the developments around Wellington and Holland. When I got my 45-60 minute daily walk, I have no less than a half dozen options that involve greenspace, and that's not including the big, old trees in these old neighbourhoods.

I can walk five minutes north and go down Byron Linear Park. I can walk twenty minutes north, and walk along the banks of the Ottawa River. I can walk south ten minutes, and cavort through the Central Experimental Farm. In my immediate area are Fisher, Hampton, and Iona Parks, nevermind the tree-lined and pleasant boulevards of Island Park and Sherwood.

And in 15-20 minutes of driving I can plop myself on a trail in the Gatineau Hills or the Greenbelt. I interact with greenspace on a daily basis, whether it's walking in an established community with tall trees, cutting through parks, or going through an area like the Ottawa River or Central Experimental Farm. And this is all within my very urban neighbourhood.

I think we need a good distribution of buildings, public squares and greenspace.

Agreed, which is why it bugs me when some people seem to only want an increase of greenspace when there's lots already, and it's mostly useless.

That being said, I totally understand what you mean when people say they want more greenspace instead of buildings. When I went for the Scott Street planning meeting to make suggestions, we broke off into smaller groups and I suggested that the city should look to covering the transit trench (wouldn't cost as much as actually burying the LRT because it's essentially already dug), and then they could use that addition space for buildings to house more people. But someone said they should turn it into greenspace, despite the fact that it would provide more room for people and jobs (and stores) without having to demolition people's homes to intensify. As well, we don't need that much greenspace there.

Some people just can't see the bigger picture.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I was making a funneh. I am with you: pave the damn greenspace!

Heavens, no. I like having greenspace. In fact, I'd love it if more developments would preserve existing trees. I just don't think adding a lot more to what we already have is going to make Ottawa a more livable and enjoyable city.

[Ottawan]

Maybe it is just because I was so underwhelmed by the previous proposals, but I'm liking this new plan.

What's really lacking is something interesting with the boulevards (as JP points out) and also some ground floor retail along Parkdale. There already is some south of Scott, and I feel like Parkdale is the best opportunity for creating an organic continuation of the existing neighbourhood into Tunney's.

Also, as someone who used to regularly bike along Scott (and the multi-use path prior to the bike lanes), a traffic light is badly needed at Frederick Banting, and will be more so after this redevelopment. This will also create a new safe pedestrian crossing to help connect Tunney's to Wellington.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Agreed, which is why it bugs me when some people seem to only want an increase of greenspace when there's lots already, and it's mostly useless.

This.

This is what bugs me most about Ottawa-people: the second a plot of land comes up for redevelopment, whether through demolition or a major landowner puts property up for sale, or whatever, the first impulse of the majority of Ottawans is, "OH, HOORAY, LET'S BUILD MORE PUBLICOPENGREENSPACE!"

No. Unless there's a compelling reason to, let's not. We have too many pointless and underutilized publicopengreenspaces now. Let's build a city.

[Cre47]

A few more restaurants/food places would be great around Tunney's. I know that about 10-20 minutes away, there are several nice restaurants (Foolish Chicken, Pho Van Van's, Anthony's Pizzeria, a Royal Oak and a couple of other ones I don't know the names - if anyone can bring up other restaurants in the area that would be great) which is good for after work or group outings - but for quick stuff (aside from the cafeterias) there is only a Marcello's at Holland Cross (I'm sure Timmies lovers would of like to have one perhaps Subway lovers) and yet there is a Rexall in the same building.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Cre47

A few more restaurants/food places would be great around Tunney's. I know that about 10-20 minutes away, there are several nice restaurants (Foolish Chicken, Pho Van Van's, Anthony's Pizzeria, a Royal Oak and a couple of other ones I don't know the names - if anyone can bring up other restaurants in the area that would be great) which is good for after work or group outings - but for quick stuff (aside from the cafeterias) there is only a Marcello's at Holland Cross (I'm sure Timmies lovers would of like to have one perhaps Subway lovers) and yet there is a Rexall in the same building.

The Flying Banzini is pretty good, and The Wood pub gets a fair bit of traffic. Siam Bistro has some of the best Thai food I've ever tasted, and Thyme & Again, while very trendy, has some tasty things that are available fairly quickly. There's also a shawarma place (it's pretty "meh" though), a Booster Juice, and a Bridgehead.

With the departure of Collected Works, there is no local bookstore in the neighbourhood. Ideally, I'd like to see an electronics store and book store as part of retail at Tunney's Pasture, as those are two things missing from the neighbourhood and not found for some distance away.

As for faster food places, there's a subway in Hintonburg, but that's a bit of a walk from the heart of Tunney's Pasture. A Timmie's in the area would be great (and needed), as would some other relatively cheap late night eats. For example, a Harvey's, or even a McDick's. These kinds of food can be hard to find in the neighbourhood. The closest we've got is Hintonburger and Taco Lot and while I love them both dearly, sometimes I just want a Harvey's burger or something like that without having to drive to Bronson or Merivale.