YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[trofirhen]

...this seems too good to be real, if, in fact, it comes about.
YVR as a link to South America from China. I thought the distances were shorter (and thus more fuel economical) from YYZ. Perhaps not. Hope it works!

http://www.bcbusiness.ca/manufacturing-t...n=BCBusiness+enewsletter+25Nov2013#close

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

...this seems too good to be real, if, in fact, it comes about.
YVR as a link to South America from China. I thought the distances were shorter (and thus more fuel economical) from YYZ. Perhaps not. Hope it works!

http://www.bcbusiness.ca/manufacturing-t...n=BCBusiness+enewsletter+25Nov2013#close

Putting 2 + 2 together... Hmmm wonder if they are talking about Xiamen Airlines. These are the exact type of carriers YVR SHOULD be pursuing. Wish them all the best in getting them too.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by deasine

If any airline can make the economies work for that flight (and I don't mean operating the flight as a loss), I will treat them to dinner.

There is a fair amount of business between Vancouver and Perth due to the mining industry, but I'd much rather see a Van-SG route, easy connections to Perth from there.

Why do you guys thing Singapore is so far from the realm of possible? SG has great connections and could nab a ton of Australian/Malaysian to Canada travel.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

There is a fair amount of business between Vancouver and Perth due to the mining industry, but I'd much rather see a Van-SG route, easy connections to Perth from there.

Why do you guys thing Singapore is so far from the realm of possible? SG has great connections and could nab a ton of Australian/Malaysian to Canada travel.

What was the reason for Singapore Airlines to drop service to YVR a few years back. I assume it was the economy ? Did SA fly to other cities in North America. I saw they dropped their Newark(EWR) flight too (same time as YVR)

[Gordon]

I thought YVR had a transiting lounge in the overhead walkways leading from the gates to the customs area.

[casper]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

What was the reason for Singapore Airlines to drop service to YVR a few years back. I assume it was the economy ? Did SA fly to other cities in North America. I saw they dropped their Newark(EWR) flight too (same time as YVR)

They flew to Vancouver with a stop in Korea.

Not certain how true it is. However the rumor at the time was that they picked up a large percentage (most?) of their passengers in Korea and the number of passengers originating in Singapore were fairly low. They only had permission for three flights per week. They wanted to increase it to a daily service. The governments (Canada and/or Korea) said no, in order to protect the non-stop route for Air Canada, Korean Airlines and Asiana. The Canadian government offered rights for seven days a week from Singapore but not via Korea. They decided to pull out.


I thought they still served New York, with a stop in Europe.

[cyeg66]

Originally Posted by casper

I thought they still served New York, with a stop in Europe.

I think they do, I saw an A345 (?) the other day SIN-EWR. if so, I think when they first launched it, they had about 180 seats on that behemoth. I also thought they'd canned that route last spring but perhaps they're just routing it elsewhere, as you suggest.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by cyeg66

I think they do, I saw an A345 (?) the other day SIN-EWR. if so, I think when they first launched it, they had about 180 seats on that behemoth. I also thought they'd canned that route last spring but perhaps they're just routing it elsewhere, as you suggest.

The last SIN-EWR-SIN flights operated on November 22/23rd.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by casper

They flew to Vancouver with a stop in Korea.

Not certain how true it is. However the rumor at the time was that they picked up a large percentage (most?) of their passengers in Korea and the number of passengers originating in Singapore were fairly low. They only had permission for three flights per week. They wanted to increase it to a daily service. The governments (Canada and/or Korea) said no, in order to protect the non-stop route for Air Canada, Korean Airlines and Asiana. The Canadian government offered rights for seven days a week from Singapore but not via Korea. They decided to pull out.


I thought they still served New York, with a stop in Europe.

Lots of history between Canada and Singapore for airline bilaterals.

The original bilateral allowed for two daily flights between SIN and Canada. YVR was serviced over the pacific with one intermediary point and this point was chosen as ICN. YYZ was services over the atlantic with one intermediary point in Western Europe that excluded LHR. SQ had services through FRA and BHX for a short while.

The European TATL fifth freedom rights that SQ utilized angered both AC and CP, fight ensued that resulted in Canadian government shredding the bilateral to close SQ out of the Canada TATL market. SQ was allowed to a certain number of seats TPAC run. BY the time the bilateral was terminated AC had all ready withdrawn their YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN service.

IF memory serves the bilateral was limited by number of seats and not number of flights. SQ problem with going daily to YVR was they only had 744 as the appropriate fleet for the mission.

The lack of bilateral continued for many years until SQ finally withdrew from the market. Once SQ pulled out of YVR AC came in with YVR-ICN services to compete with Korean.

Todays bilateral is open skies with a twist. Both AC and SQ can fly unlimited flights and seats, but only with nonstop SIN-Canada service. Without the intermediary stop that if at least 5th freedom compliant, SIN-Canada services are not profitable.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

The last SIN-EWR-SIN flights operated on November 22/23rd.

I remember reading that the World's longest non-stop ultra long-haul is/was between Singapore and New York. Was it perhaps this flight? I remember reading it being something like 17 hours in length... Phew.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I remember reading that the World's longest non-stop ultra long-haul is/was between Singapore and New York. Was it perhaps this flight? I remember reading it being something like 17 hours in length... Phew.

Yes that was this flight. In the last few years they changed it to an all business class layout on the A340-500.

The flight that is now the longest non-stop is Qantas operating Sydney-DFW, however it can't always operate the flight back without a fuel stop. To my knowledge the SQ A345 was always able to make the SIN-EWR-SIN no problem.

Some articles on the end of the flight:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2013/11/singapore-airlines

http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/11/22/...our-non-stop-from-new-york-to-singapore/

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Cage

Primary reason for no QF in YVR is lack of suitable equipment for the mission. If QF had the 77L they would be in YVR.

Infact lack of a midsize airplane to fly ULH routes is QF major problem right now, they bet too heavily on 744 and 380.

Secondary reason for no QF on YVR-SYD is mentioned in your post. There are just too many stopover and connection options that compete with the nonstop service.

Which is essentially why Boeing went with a 787-size plane instead of developing an A380-size.

If ANA uses a 763 to do its rumored YVR-HND route, I wonder if they'd switch to a 787 eventually.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Which is essentially why Boeing went with a 787-size plane instead of developing an A380-size.

If ANA uses a 763 to do its rumored YVR-HND route, I wonder if they'd switch to a 787 eventually.

Yes ANA will switch to 788 if rumored YVR-HND route is 763 at day one. The 788 will replace all 763 services. Only question is whether the 788 goes to YVR at day 1.

[Johnny Aussie]

AC has just updated its schedules to PEK for next summer.

PEK is seeing a further bump from 11 weekly now to 2 daily.

AC29 DAILY dep YVR 1150 763
AC27 DAILY dep YVR 2200 763

Looks like Air Canada has "found" slots for this increase. Interesting that has been the argument they have been making for not starting YYC-PEK flights. hmmmm.

Air China still showing 11 weekly on 332s.

YYZ still showing as 10 weekly 77W as well.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Yes that was this flight. In the last few years they changed it to an all business class layout on the A340-500.

Wow, that flight was 19 hours and covered 9,525 miles (15,329 km). It's truly amazing how such a large plane can remain in the air that long.

Getting back to Qantas and YVR, one would think Canada (and YVR) would be a good destination for them considering that Qantas is the "local" airline in Australia and one would think many Australians have Qantas frequent flyer card in the wallets and so also prefer Qantas over other alliance airlines like Air Canada. I know I would, but I guess that's not how airline business works.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Wow, that flight was 19 hours and covered 9,525 miles (15,329 km). It's truly amazing how such a large plane can remain in the air that long.

The reason it is an all business class flight is that in order to be able to carry enough fuel to fly for 19 hours they need to reduce weight, that limits the number of passengers that can be carried. They are likely cancelling it because it is not profitable.

Originally Posted by Klazu

Getting back to Qantas and YVR, one would think Canada (and YVR) would be a good destination for them considering that Qantas is the "local" airline in Australia and one would think many Australians have Qantas frequent flyer card in the wallets and so also prefer Qantas over other alliance airlines like Air Canada. I know I would, but I guess that's not how airline business works.

I think Quants code-shares on Alaska and American Airlines.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Yes that was this flight. In the last few years they changed it to an all business class layout on the A340-500.

The flight that is now the longest non-stop is Qantas operating Sydney-DFW, however it can't always operate the flight back without a fuel stop. To my knowledge the SQ A345 was always able to make the SIN-EWR-SIN no problem.

Some articles on the end of the flight:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2013/11/singapore-airlines

http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/11/22/...our-non-stop-from-new-york-to-singapore/

Aside from fuel costs as a cited issue, there's also word that SQ received many incentives from Airbus to buy back the A340s. Given the significant increases in cost, the deteriorating market for ultra long hauls, and changes to the competition landscape, I think SQ decided to end this flagship route.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Looks like Air Canada has "found" slots for this increase. Interesting that has been the argument they have been making for not starting YYC-PEK flights. hmmmm.

All excuses. Remember AC cited the YEG Icelandair case as one of the reasons for its YEG-LHR cancellations? AC says a lot of stuff.

[YYCspotter]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC27 DAILY dep YVR 2200 763

Looks like Air Canada has "found" slots for this increase. Interesting that has been the argument they have been making for not starting YYC-PEK flights. hmmmm.

To be fair, the extra slots they found are for a late evening departure from YVR. I'm guessing AC wants daytime departure slots from YYC if they were to launch PEK. AC must view the daytime departure time more viable for YYC-PEK than a night time departure. but who know whats going on behind the scenes…

[craneSpotter]

Canada Jetlines: Ultra-low cost carrier being proposed for Western Canada

Financial Post, Nov 27, 2013

A group of aviation veterans is looking to launch a new ultra-low cost carrier in Vancouver next fall that carries the potential of significantly cutting the cost of travel in Western Canada.

Canada Jetlines Ltd. will fly under the moniker “Jetlines.” It is being launched by aviation veterans Jim Scott and David Solloway as well as Dix Lawson and has garnered the support of the provincial government in B.C.

...Jetlines has already applied for an airline license to operate large aircraft in Canada, according to the Canadian Transportation Agency. It has also negotiated landing slots in both Vancouver and other key airports in Western Canada, according to an investor briefing obtained by the Financial Post.

The plan calls for the airline to launch with two Airbus A319s in the summer of 2014, and expand to 16 aircraft by 2017 using a fleet of A319s and A320s. Jetlines has already hired about 25 people.

Hmm...not sure Canada is ready for a ULCC (or if this has been posted already)...maybe a hard (small) market to crack, but point to point service on underserved routes might just work...along with key interline agreements

Jetlines is to be based on the business models of Allegiant and Spirit Airlines (love Spirit! ,,, the ads anyway). Hopefully if they fly, they are more along the lines of JetBlue, now there's an airline I like!

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC has just updated its schedules to PEK for next summer.

PEK is seeing a further bump from 11 weekly now to 2 daily.

AC29 DAILY dep YVR 1150 763
AC27 DAILY dep YVR 2200 763

Looks like Air Canada has "found" slots for this increase. Interesting that has been the argument they have been making for not starting YYC-PEK flights. hmmmm.

Air China still showing 11 weekly on 332s.

YYZ still showing as 10 weekly 77W as well.

Its always good news for YVR from Johnny.