YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

SAS is listed on YVR's own website - lol

that is where i copied the list from...

Yeah, sorry that it was I meant from my comment... not sure why it was on their list.

[cyeg66]

Nice work on the L B flight path park. I'm diggin' it.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

SAS is listed on YVR's own website - lol

that is where i copied the list from...

I've noticed that, too. Funny thing about SAS. Until a short while or so back, they had four North American destinations. (Montreal was dropped some years ago, and perhaps curiously, they aren't into YYZ yet, but that's in the works, no doubt, their being Star Alliance)

Anyway the four US destinations were, New York, Washington, Chicago, and Seattle (given its preponderant Scandinavian population base)
Apparently they had always flown full between Sea-Tac and Kastrup, but my only conclusion is that the yield factor wasn't there ... a.k.a. Not Enough Business Class Tickets.

This may seem normal at first, with the Seattle concentration of high-tech industries of many sorts, (complemented by Swedish industrial expertise),
medical institutions and research (viz; The Swedish Hospital), the Deaprtment of Scqndinavian Studies at
the main university, ... this was evidence enough for sufficient business travel, and thus a sufficient profit margin, but it was not.

Perhaps with its three remaining NA destinations, they advertise a lot to try and draw connecting customers or some such idea.

Still, I found it off-kilter that they should be listed under airlines serving YVR. Chances are they paid extra to have themselves listed here.

[Klazu]

My wife is flying to Sydney for two weeks on business this coming Thursday. She will be flying business class via Hong Kong on Cathay Pacific, which must be nice despite the 25 hour trip... Personally I would have opted for the route via LAX, trying the Qantas A380 business class, but she rather chose Hong Kong (same trip length).

Anyways, we are collecting miles on One World and find it strange that Qantas doesn't fly to Vancouver anymore. I do wonder what was the reason for them dropping the connection, considering how many Ozzies travel to Canada and vice versa. The question came to my mind yesterday while skiing in Whistler and seeing so many seasonal workers from Australia.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

SAS is listed on YVR's own website - lol

that is where i copied the list from...

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yeah, sorry that it was I meant from my comment... not sure why it was on their list.

The list includes codeshares. You'll notice Asiana and ANA are listed there despite not flying here (yet).

Originally Posted by Klazu

My wife is flying to Sydney for two weeks on business this coming Thursday. She will be flying business class via Hong Kong on Cathay Pacific, which must be nice despite the 25 hour trip... Personally I would have opted for the route via LAX, trying the Qantas A380 business class, but she rather chose Hong Kong (same trip length).

Anyways, we are collecting miles on One World and find it strange that Qantas doesn't fly to Vancouver anymore. I do wonder what was the reason for them dropping the connection, considering how many Ozzies travel to Canada and vice versa. The question came to my mind yesterday while skiing in Whistler and seeing so many seasonal workers from Australia.

They did fly here but suspended the route. Yields is a problem, but keep in mind, that's not the only problem airlines face. There's the issue of connectivity: given that there's not enough O&D, there needs to be enough connection options and YVR doesn't offer that compared to gateways such as LAX and DFW. Even SFO was dropped over DFW as AA offered many more connection options compared to SFO. I'm surprised QF still runs the route from LAX to JFK honestly, but I guess there might be enough premium demand to support the continued tag to JFK.

Having flown QF A380 in J, I think their Skybeds are alright, but I would choose CX over QF. CX and their reverse herringbone product is much more comfortable and private over QF. Plus at LAX, you will be experiencing a mediocre short-haul product to return to YVR, whereas the HKG option has the same premium long-haul product.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I've noticed that, too. Funny thing about SAS. Until a short while or so back, they had four North American destinations. (Montreal was dropped some years ago, and perhaps curiously, they aren't into YYZ yet, but that's in the works, no doubt, their being Star Alliance)

Anyway the four US destinations were, New York, Washington, Chicago, and Seattle (given its preponderant Scandinavian population base)
Apparently they had always flown full between Sea-Tac and Kastrup, but my only conclusion is that the yield factor wasn't there ... a.k.a. Not Enough Business Class Tickets.

This may seem normal at first, with the Seattle concentration of high-tech industries of many sorts, (complemented by Swedish industrial expertise),
medical institutions and research (viz; The Swedish Hospital), the Deaprtment of Scqndinavian Studies at
the main university, ... this was evidence enough for sufficient business travel, and thus a sufficient profit margin, but it was not.

Perhaps with its three remaining NA destinations, they advertise a lot to try and draw connecting customers or some such idea.

Still, I found it off-kilter that they should be listed under airlines serving YVR. Chances are they paid extra to have themselves listed here.

There's yields, but the other issue is competition and cost. SAS has one of the highest cost in operation amongst the European carriers. Let's not look at the Gulf state carriers and LCCs, but SAS can't even compete against Lufthansa because of its high cost and many of the historical and politically motivated legacies that govern the airline (i.e. having to staff each route with flight attendants from Sweden, Copenhagen, and Norway). Given their high costs, it just doesn't make sense to keep so many long-haul routes.

I wouldn't be surprised if SAS considers joining the A++ joint venture and just codeshare on Lufthansa, United, and Air Canada routes in the future. Finnair recently jointed the American/British Airways Atlantic joint venture, and it might be in the best interest of SAS to do the same to remain competitive with (1) Finnair, but (2) offer more North American destinations without using its own metal to compete with Norwegian, which has a much lower cost operation (albeit they also operate on a much lower frequency).

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Anyways, we are collecting miles on One World and find it strange that Qantas doesn't fly to Vancouver anymore. I do wonder what was the reason for them dropping the connection, considering how many Ozzies travel to Canada and vice versa. The question came to my mind yesterday while skiing in Whistler and seeing so many seasonal workers from Australia.

You just answered your own question: seasonal workers = lower yielding traffic and seasonal. Air Canada seems to do rather ok though.

If you were Star Alliance I would highly recommend the AC non-stop YVR-SYD or an excellent alternative YVR-AKL-SYD on Air New Zealand. But being One World CX is my fave in that alliance.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

The list includes codeshares.

And certainly not a complete list of code-share airlines otherwise the list would be sooo much longer.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by deasine

Having flown QF A380 in J, I think their Skybeds are alright, but I would choose CX over QF. CX and their reverse herringbone product is much more comfortable and private over QF. Plus at LAX, you will be experiencing a mediocre short-haul product to return to YVR, whereas the HKG option has the same premium long-haul product.

Yeah, the Hong Kong route definitely has advantage in terms of quality and having not flown CX yet, it would be interesting to try out as well. But since I haven't yet flown A380 either, I would have given it priority. That being if I would even be the traveler here instead of my wife.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

You just answered your own question: seasonal workers = lower yielding traffic and seasonal. Air Canada seems to do rather ok though.

Whistler is of course a seasonal destination, but do Australia - Canada passanger numbers have strong peaks during seasons? I have no figures, but it just feels like there are lots of Aussies in BC year round, not to mention the chances to have connecting flights elsewhere in Canada. Of course the problem would be that there is no One World partner up here.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

If you were Star Alliance I would highly recommend the AC non-stop YVR-SYD or an excellent alternative YVR-AKL-SYD on Air New Zealand. But being One World CX is my fave in that alliance.

Those would be great routes as well and we have Lufthansa card as our secondary card. Lufthansa is just so expensive compared to British Airways (our number one card) that there is never a chance to redeem miles acquired on Star Alliance flights. Also, BA's option to have a family card is pretty nice bonus.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Yeah, the Hong Kong route definitely has advantage in terms of quality and having not flown CX yet, it would be interesting to try out as well. But since I haven't yet flown A380 either, I would have given it priority. That being if I would even be the traveler here instead of my wife.

It was the only reason why I chose to fly QF over BA when I went to SIN from Australia. The lounge area on the flight is nice, being able to walk up and hang around an area outside of your seat was a great plus. One thing I really don't like is the curvature of the aircraft prevents you from getting a good view of the window in J. But this is totally beyond #firstworldproblems

Originally Posted by Klazu

Whistler is of course a seasonal destination, but do Australia - Canada passanger numbers have strong peaks during seasons? I have no figures, but it just feels like there are lots of Aussies in BC year round, not to mention the chances to have connecting flights elsewhere in Canada. Of course the problem would be that there is no One World partner up here.

AC adds an additional 3-weekly YVR-SYD flights (on top of their daily YYZ-YVR-SYD flights) during the winter periods. So yes, there is quite a bit of demand, and enough demand during the "low periods" to sustain a daily SYD flight. What's good about flights to the Southern Hemisphere, especially in commerce capitals, is there is generally an even distributed number of passengers throughout the entire season. In the summer months for the Northern Hemisphere, there is a good leisure demand going to Australia, whereas in the Winter months for the Northern Hemisphere (summer for southern), the traffic demand reverses. A lot of problems with airlines is demand is only seasonal, and one-way. India is a very good example of this: they have huge demands from YVR during the winter months before Christmas, but demand after drops significantly and the economics don't favor a direct flight to work. But AC definitely doesn't have this problems with SYD.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

AC adds an additional 3-weekly YVR-SYD flights (on top of their daily YYZ-YVR-SYD flights) during the winter periods.

This doesn't appear to be happening this winter. It still looks like only one daily even for peak winter.

Interesting fact looking at Australian stats. Air Canada had the #1 load factor of any airline outbound from Australia for the month of August 2013.
It was 94.5%. Inbound not quite as high, but a fantastic result from Air Canada. I'll be on AC34 once again very very soon :-)

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

This doesn't appear to be happening this winter. It still looks like only one daily even for peak winter.

I suspect an unannounced 777-300ER HD fleet change to make up for the additional capacity Just kidding

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Klazu

My wife is flying to Sydney for two weeks on business this coming Thursday. She will be flying business class via Hong Kong on Cathay Pacific, which must be nice despite the 25 hour trip... Personally I would have opted for the route via LAX, trying the Qantas A380 business class, but she rather chose Hong Kong (same trip length).

Anyways, we are collecting miles on One World and find it strange that Qantas doesn't fly to Vancouver anymore. I do wonder what was the reason for them dropping the connection, considering how many Ozzies travel to Canada and vice versa. The question came to my mind yesterday while skiing in Whistler and seeing so many seasonal workers from Australia.

Primary reason for no QF in YVR is lack of suitable equipment for the mission. If QF had the 77L they would be in YVR.

Infact lack of a midsize airplane to fly ULH routes is QF major problem right now, they bet too heavily on 744 and 380.

Secondary reason for no QF on YVR-SYD is mentioned in your post. There are just too many stopover and connection options that compete with the nonstop service.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Cage

Primary reason for no QF in YVR is lack of suitable equipment for the mission. If QF had the 77L they would be in YVR.

Infact lack of a midsize airplane to fly ULH routes is QF major problem right now, they bet too heavily on 744 and 380.

Secondary reason for no QF on YVR-SYD is mentioned in your post. There are just too many stopover and connection options that compete with the nonstop service.

How I would love to see a YVR - MEL nonstop run, whichever airline operated it .......
(That, in addition to Brisbane, which is slated to come onstream with AC next year)

[Kapten]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

How I would love to see a YVR - MEL nonstop run, whichever airline operated it .......
(That, in addition to Brisbane, which is slated to come onstream with AC next year)

I wonder if YVR-PER is being considered by Quantas or Air Canada? It would be a major coup for YVR to provide the first nonstop North American service to/from Perth, which is the 4th largest Australian city.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Kapten

I wonder if YVR-PER is being considered by Quantas or Air Canada? It would be a major coup for YVR to provide the first nonstop North American service to/from Perth, which is the 4th largest Australian city.

Qantas.

[Kapten]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Qantas.

Quantas is considering this route? Are they also planning to add YYZ-PER when they get planes with more range...?

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Qantas.

Oh some inside info? It'd be great to add/have back another international airline.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Oh some inside info? It'd be great to add/have back another international airline.

OK calm down... Bigtime was taking the piss (Aussie term for pulling your leg)

He was referring to the spelling of Quantas s/b Qantas. No U in Qantas.

Having said that, YVR-PER or YYZ-PER is even less likely than YVR-CPH and YVR-SIN. I would put in the bottom 10 percentile of even remote plausibilities.

[deasine]

If any airline can make the economies work for that flight (and I don't mean operating the flight as a loss), I will treat them to dinner.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

If any airline can make the economies work for that flight (and I don't mean operating the flight as a loss), I will treat them to dinner.

Hell, I'd go further, I'd clone them and hire them for myself!

OK... seriously. If we are to see any further Canadian-Australia flights outside of the already discussed possibilities of YVR-BNE and YVR-MEL (both have been publicly mentioned by AC over the last couple of years).... the 787s by QF (Qantas)/ JQ (Jetstar) may (repeat MAY) have some credence to do a YVR-East Coast Australia trek.