James Baptist Church sold

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

We are allowing this demolition based on a wireframe sketch? This is no better than Blanchard's rendering with all of the askew lines and the downhill mountain biker out front.

...and no guarantee it will actually get built

They're leaving the front chunk, rather than his plan to tear down the whole thing. The one is near certainty of a parking lot, the other isn't.

[SteelTown]

There was already an engineering report represented to the committee. After that they delayed the vote for another two weeks because they demanded to see a sketch of the project.

[oldcoote]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

We are allowing this demolition based on a wireframe sketch? This is no better than Blanchard's rendering with all of the askew lines and the downhill mountain biker out front.

...and no guarantee it will actually get built

This.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Nah I like old mixed in with new like the Witton Lofts.

Old mixed in with fake faux wannable heritage building tend to never turn out good.

Witton has worked very well.

It doesn't have to try to fake the gothic look, just complement it better than an all-glass tower... for example I'd hate to see them try to attach something like Commerce Place to the back of the church frontage. And with all that stone they'll be salvaging they should have some interesting possibilities, given a visionary architect and the will to put in the effort.

[markbarbera]

The same sort of outcries were made out against Liuna about the Lister Block and the Thomas Building, and against Vranich over The Federal Building.

Given the remarkable transformation of the Lister Block, and the work in progress underway at Main and Caroline, and soon at the Thomas Building site, at this point I will hesitate to join in any lynch mob that may be forming against Santaguida, or even Blanchard for that matter.

[beanmedic]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

The same sort of outcries were made out against Liuna about the Lister Block and the Thomas Building, and against Vranich over The Federal Building.

Given the remarkable transformation of the Lister Block, and the work in progress underway at Main and Caroline, and soon at the Thomas Building site, at this point I will hesitate to join in any lynch mob that may be forming against Santaguida, or even Blanchard for that matter.

"Outcries work!" -markbarbera

[thistleclub]

James Street Baptist Church: Is Taking Down Back 2/3rds a ‘Demolition’ or Alteration’?
(JoeyColeman.ca, Joey Coleman, Nov 23 2013)

The partial demolition of the James Street Baptist Church was not on the agenda of this week’s Hamilton Municipal Heritage Committee meeting.

It had been expected to arrive at HMHC prior to going to Council in December.

Instead, the heritage application is “incomplete” and there is a question of if the plan to demolish the back 2/3rds of the building is a ‘demolition’ or an ‘alteration’.

“At this point, we have an incomplete application,” Robichaud said Tuesday after the Planning Committee in Stoney Creek, in response to a question from this reporter as to what the matter wasn’t in front of HMHC.

Steve Robichaud, the City’s Chief Planner, says the developer, Stanton Renaissance, needs to submit more information for the permit to be processed by City staff.

What’s next for the building will hinge on Robichaud’s decision as Chief Planner.

When responding to questions Tuesday, Robichaud used the terminology used by staff in October, that the partial demolition is an alteration.

If staff decide to treat it as an alteration, and not a demolition, it is possible for the permit to be approved without a public hearing under delegated authorities Council gave the position of Chief Planner in 2005.


A semantic distinction that could have wide-ranging implications for the core. Read the article in full here.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

A semantic distinction that could have wide-ranging implications for the core.

No kidding.

If they're taking down and cataloging each stone individually to be used in whatever gets built, that's one thing - but that would be a painstaking and expensive process and I don't see a developer being willing to do that. More likely they'd pull down the walls and just set aside a portion of the blocks that survive intact to incorporate into a facade or decorative interior wall of a new building.

[durandy]

the front fifth of the church is supposedly structurally sound enough to stand on its own after the rest is torn down.

As for alteration v demolition, the definition depends on what elements of the building were originally designated. Buildings don't get designated, their heritage elements are designated via a statement of heritage interest that's registered on the deed. So if too many of those elements are destroyed, then it's a demolition not an alteration. So if the description only lists the facade and roof then destruction of the rest might not be a demolition that needs to go to council.

This will be a test to see if Steve Robichaud steers the planning department differently than his predecessor.

[CaptainKirk]

http://msarch.ca/posts/59-james-stre...al-development



Here's an interview with the developer that shows other renders http://www.cable14.com/hamilton-curr...ovember-4-2013

[KDP]

Is it physically impossible to have buildings designed to match their environments anymore? Why would you waste the opportunity of building with a gothic church as your base, by building a typical apartment building that can be seen anywhere in the world.

[mattgrande]

Bad news for Heritage advocates.

https://twitter.com/JoeyColeman/stat...29571272663040

City staff confirms they're treating #JamesBaptist partial demolition as an "alteration". There will be NO public hearings. #HamOnt

[matt602]

As long as what is built is of high quality and happens in a timely fashion, I don't see this as much of a loss. The main part of the facade will still be intact on James Street and I think thats a pretty good win.

[durandy]

I'll put 2-1 odds on the front accidentally falling down during the 'alteration' or the winter. That rendering is such a pile of shit and the developer is such an unknown I have grave doubts it will remain. They'll need to dig an underground garage right up to it.

[lucasmascotto]

Council urged to reverse church demolition
The Hamilton Spectator
By: Matthew Van Dongen

The Durand Neighbourhood Association has asked council to reverse a city staff decision allowing demolition of the former James Street Baptist Church.

Developer Louie Santaguida plans to knock down three-quarters of the 135-year-old church for safety reasons while preserving the distinctive stone entrance and tower along James Street South as part of an $80-million commercial and residential redevelopment.

A heritage subcommittee voted 4-3 to recommend the plan last October and city planning director Steve Robichaud signed off on a heritage permit with conditions in January.

But a letter from Durand association president Janice Brown to all council members questions why the final decision was left to staff, without formal public delegations.

"We'd like them to answer our questions and reconsider the decision," said Brown, who acknowledged the plea may be too late. "If they can't reverse it, at the least maybe we can change the public process for the future."

Santaguida still needs a separate demolition permit, which he applied for Feb. 13, to take down the back half of the crumbling church. But the developer said Friday he has met the conditions needed to get the permit, which could be this month.

Santaguida said he isn't aware of any other bureaucratic hurdles or avenues of appeal that could delay demolition, but he added the public will be able to weigh in on his redevelopment plan, which includes a 25-storey-plus condo and commercial building.

He said residents will notice construction safety walls going up soon, followed by efforts to "dismantle" and salvage heritage elements of the designated building. "We're really excited. I think Hamiltonians will be proud of this (project)," he said.

Robichaud said city policy allows him to approve permits for "alterations" to heritage buildings on behalf of council if the heritage subcommittee is also onside. The work is deemed an alteration because part of the building will remain standing, he said.

Brown questioned that definition. "This isn't a minor change — this is huge," she said.

Mayor Bob Bratina said via email the association has made "a reasonable request for clarification" from city staff, but didn't suggest council revisit the issue.

Ward Councillor Jason Farr said he's following the project closely and appreciates the concerns of residents and heritage activists.

"I understand where she's coming from, but I also respect the process," he said. "I have a real appreciation for the work of our staff on this and the expertise of the (heritage) subcommittee."

[durandy]

hoarding's gone up around the building.

[CaptainKirk]

"The most beautiful casavant from James Street Baptist Church is currently sitting in the loft of Treble Hall awaiting an adaptive re-purpose." Treble Hall FB Page

[palace1]

I'm glad to see that the organ has been dismantled for possible reuse.

If the back 75% of the church has to be demolished (or 'altered' as the permit is written) I suppose it would be too progressive to hope that some of the stained glass windows, stone work and slate roof could also be saved for reuse?

[Dr Awesomesauce]

I would hope that all the pieces would be reused. The stone alone must be worth a fortune.

[CaptainKirk]

Originally Posted by palace1

I'm glad to see that the organ has been dismantled for possible reuse.

If the back 75% of the church has to be demolished (or 'altered' as the permit is written) I suppose it would be too progressive to hope that some of the stained glass windows, stone work and slate roof could also be saved for reuse?

I hear the stained glass and many other features will be saved from the demolished portion and reused. Not sure about the stone and slate.