SAN FRANCISCO | Projects: Under Construction, Approved, and Proposed

[simms3_redux]

Where is the Salesforce site? Is it south Mission Bay, or is it closer to China Basin? Because if the latter, to me that's just as close if not closer to SoMa (aka Brannan St, Townsend, Harrison, Bryant, Showplace Square certainly, etc) than SFD.

Wakamesalad, my point about Caltrain is that depending on where the Salesforce site is in Mission Bay, it could be closer to existing Caltrain than TB Tower, which is not likely to see Caltrain for a very long time.

editApparently as I thought the Salesforce site is near China Basin and AT&T Park. Figuratively that's closer to SoMa than South Financial District, which really stops well before 680 Folsom and the old Twitter building at 795 Folsom (which are Yerba Buena area).

Fimiak - I agree, it's all about who Google wants to move to SF that could determine office tower or campus.

Tech12 - we're talking office towers only here I thought? Within 1-2 blocks of TB Tower you have:

535 Mission - UC
350 Mission - UC
181 Fremont - UC
Foundry III - T/O
222 Second - UC
140 New Montgomery rehab - complete
1st and Mission Office - proposed

Am I missing anything here? Seems to me with or without Google, the adjacent towers are under construction. Google could be the reassurance that TB Tower gets built itself since that's not a done deal, but the others are spec and still UC (535, 181, 222, Foundry III) or spoken for (350, 140 New M, heck 680 Folsom).

Resi, within 1 block, again same situation where most towers immediately around TB Tower are UC:

TB Block 6/7 - now UC
Lumina - UC
41 Tehama - approved at smaller height
524 Howard - working through approval process now and Google won't speed that up
181 Fremont (Park 181) - UC


In an unrelated news bit, we just lost a prospect for our Class B Market St building for one of the new class A towers on Mission, and this is a tech tenant. Small commitment of ~5,000 SF, but they were willing to pay $5+ more for "trophy" class A because that's what their approval committee wanted. Bad for us, good sign for SFD towers.

[mt_climber13]

Is the Legoratta Mission Bay campus fully entitled and approved? If not, how many years do you think that process would take? And then you have construction timetables. And then they might find a snail that is endangered and delay the process for another few years. In all this time I'm sure CalTrain would be connected to the Transbay Terminal. But who knows as well, the whole train portion of the terminal is pretty iffy these days.

All in all it seems like the Mission Bay campus would be more of a long term process. The tower will be ready within 3- 4 years. But then you have to consider Google needing more space than the tower allows. Ironic that the original proposal of 1200' would have been perfect. SF shoots itself in the foot again. And then what are the odds that the original proposal be built? One in a googol?

And to those that think Google wouldn't locate in an office building, they bought a 3 million sq. ft. office building in Manhattan recently. Also, they occupy 800,000 sq. ft. in an office tower in Chicago.

[tech12]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Where is the Salesforce site? Is it south Mission Bay, or is it closer to China Basin? Because if the latter, to me that's just as close if not closer to SoMa (aka Brannan St, Townsend, Harrison, Bryant, Showplace Square certainly, etc) than SFD.

Wakamesalad, my point about Caltrain is that depending on where the Salesforce site is in Mission Bay, it could be closer to existing Caltrain than TB Tower, which is not likely to see Caltrain for a very long time.

editApparently as I thought the Salesforce site is near China Basin and AT&T Park. Figuratively that's closer to SoMa than South Financial District, which really stops well before 680 Folsom and the old Twitter building at 795 Folsom (which are Yerba Buena area).

I think you might be confused about what "SOMA" is. The south financial district and Yerba Buena area are both within SOMA. The old Salesforce site in Mission Bay is not. The south of market is a big area that includes many sub-neighborhoods, and spans from the Embarcadero in the east to South Van Ness in the west, and Mission bay and the Mission district in the south to Market street in the north.

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Tech12 - we're talking office towers only here I thought? Within 1-2 blocks of TB Tower you have:

Yeah I was including residential buildings. You're right that all of the office towers (aside from the 50 first street proposal) are under construction or site prep right now. Though there are a few unclaimed sites that were upzoned in the transbay plan that could end up as office towers as well.

[mt_climber13]

How may of these shadow proposals are office?

[tech12]

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

How may of these shadow proposals are office?

One is office, one is nothing (no proposals yet), the others are residential.

[hruski]

Originally Posted by tech12

One is office, one is nothing (no proposals yet), the others are residential.

Every time I see renders of the skyline of ~2020, I think to myself "Foundry Square is going to be the most underutilized real estate in the city."

Those buildings are about 20 stories too short.

[fflint]

^Agreed. I've never understood why Foundry Square was built out at office park heights.

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by tech12

I think you might be confused about what "SOMA" is. The south financial district and Yerba Buena area are both within SOMA. The old Salesforce site in Mission Bay is not. The south of market is a big area that includes many sub-neighborhoods, and spans from the Embarcadero in the east to South Van Ness in the west, and Mission bay and the Mission district in the south to Market street in the north.

Nope not confused at all. SOMA does have many sub-districts, including Mid-Market where Twitter is and Showplace Square near the Design District. But South Financial District is most certainly not SoMa (it's "core CBD" along with North Financial District, where I work), and Yerba Buena is technically between SoMa and Union Square as a separate district but could conceivably be lumped in with SoMa. This is where 795 Folsom is (former Twitter building recently sold) and 680 Folsom (where Macy's.com and Riverbed Tech are moving, also recently sold), and where Akamai just took nearly 30,000 SF at 799 Market (which could conceivably fall in any of three districts, including Yerba Buena, Union Square, or SFD).

The meat of "SoMa" where most of the new construction office proposals outside of downtown and many of the headlining leases are locating is along Brannan St (think Kilroy's project at 333 Brannan, and the number of big institutions with entitlements on parcels on the same street or within 1 block is astounding). Brannan St is essentially adjacent to China Basin, which is considered part of Mission Bay. It is quite far from South Financial District and is already served by CalTrain via King St.

To get from TB Tower to Mid-Market (which to me is a totally separate submarket though many brokers still lump it in with SOMA) is easy via Muni or even BART. To get from TB Tower to the other parts of SOMA (Brannan, Townsend, Showplace Square, Rhode Island, etc) is incredibly difficult. But it's a pretty short walk from Mission Bay around the China Basin.

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by wakamesalad

And to those that think Google wouldn't locate in an office building, they bought a 3 million sq. ft. office building in Manhattan recently. Also, they occupy 800,000 sq. ft. in an office tower in Chicago.

I'm pretty familiar with the building they bought in Manhattan for reasons I don't need to clarify

It's a large, brick/timber building with floorplates exponentially larger than anything on the west coast situated in the SOMA of Manhattan (in terms of tenants and "feel", not in terms of gay scene...though SOMA in SF is pretty gay ironically), aka Chelsea. It's across from Chelsea Market and surrounded by restaurants, lofts, the Standard, the Gansevoort Meatpacking, and the High Line. It's by no means a high rise and functions more like a campus. Google is also a large tenant across the street at Chelsea Market, which has large floorplates and is also an old brick/timber building (~1.1 million SF).

Not familiar with their building in Chicago, but I think the best comp for Google locating in an actual Tower is Amazon in Seattle. Like Fimiak said, it will likely depend on who they are housing in the city in addition to the countless other moving parts.

[WonderlandPark]

Looks like 181 Fremont had its groundbreaking ceremony today:

Looks like the name is Park 181 from the photo on curbed.

http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2013/11/14...tallest_mixeduse_west_of_mississippi.php

I still have big doubts over TB, but at least this one is going up, 800+ ft!

If it beats Wilshire Grand to completion, than this will be 4th tallest in the entire state for a bit.

[edwards]

No one mentioned 41 Tehama gaining 4 additional floors?



http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2013/11/13/41_tehama_looks_to_add_a_little_to_the_top.php

[easy as pie]

interior staircase that'll be very interesting to people who know sf moma's old one:


eta: i hate it, obviously, only hope this rendering somehow totally misrepresents it

[WonderlandPark]

^^ ouch.

if they were going this far they might as well torn down the Botta SFMOMA building and started over. To me this is like taking the Lincoln Statue out of the Lincoln Memorial and leaving the empty building. It is not the same.

[timbad]

Originally Posted by fflint

^Agreed. I've never understood why Foundry Square was built out at office park heights.

but ya gotta admit, people enjoying the extra sunshine in the rooftop garden of TBTC for the next 30-40 years are gonna be happy it was

[fflint]

Originally Posted by WonderlandPark

^^ ouch.

if they were going this far they might as well torn down the Botta SFMOMA building and started over. To me this is like taking the Lincoln Statue out of the Lincoln Memorial and leaving the empty building. It is not the same.

Agreed they should have destroyed the old, ugly, dark entrance--and they have. They have.

[simms3_redux]

SFMOMA remembrance:

[pseudolus]

Maybe George Lucas can put the Botta steps in his Star Wars museum.

[POLA]

redacted.

[fflint]

^Nice shots!

Had a chance today to snap a crappy phone pic of Rincon Hill from a certain floor of 101 Cal:



Bonus shot:

[mt_climber13]

Relieved with the color of glass for 535. Was concerned it was going to be "Infinity Green" from some of the previous drawings.