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  #141  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 2:32 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
South Mountain Stagecoach Transit having a difficult time competing against rural park and rides
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Joanne+Chia...tm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Maybe OC Transpo should buy all these companies out? Although they would need to come up with an agreement with the other municipalities involved...
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  #142  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 2:44 PM
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It is largely a critical mass problem. Some areas like Rockland where they have been able to build ridership fairly quickly have been able to run enough buses to offer flexibility.

The trick with transit in outlying areas (and even the suburbs to a fair extent) is that you pretty much have to assume most of your riders have some sort of access to a car. They also have the longest commutes and presumably don't want them to get any longer.

OC transpo has been successful building ridership in Ottawa's suburbs with park and rides where people can then get access to more frequent buses than crappy locals offer. That said the presence of the park and riders effectively degrades the local service since less people take it.

It is really a trade-off of door-to-door(ish) service vs having more riders overall.
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  #143  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2012, 3:26 AM
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  #144  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2012, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Well, it's not our problem, but we should still listen to the towns calling for commuter rail, send a representative to their meetings and, if a proper plan is ever completed, get on board.

It probably wouldn’t cost more than 100 million. Fix up the tracks, build a few stations (Kanata North, do some work on Fallowfield, Walkley and some work at the Tremblay road station) and a contribution for the trains, possibly used ones from TO, MTL and Vancouver.

It's not like we have to drop everything to participate in this idea; most of the infrastructure is already in place. It’s the easiest and cheapest way to take some traffic off the roads.
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  #145  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2012, 2:48 PM
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'Not a priority' doesn't mean it would be difficult to implement. Amazing that other cities were able to focus on multiple city-building projects at the same time.
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  #146  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2012, 2:50 PM
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Well, it's not our problem, but we should still listen to the towns calling for commuter rail, send a representative to their meetings and, if a proper plan is ever completed, get on board.

It probably wouldn’t cost more than 100 million. Fix up the tracks, build a few stations (Kanata North, do some work on Fallowfield, Walkley and some work at the Tremblay road station) and a contribution for the trains, possibly used ones from TO, MTL and Vancouver.

It's not like we have to drop everything to participate in this idea; most of the infrastructure is already in place. It’s the easiest and cheapest way to take some traffic off the roads.
It's a sign they don't care about rural residents. Commuter rail would have little benefit among those who live in the urban core (other than the traffic removed) but would have an enormous benefit in parts of rural Ottawa and outlying municipalities.

Worrying about VIA for rush hour schedules? There would only be likely 2 or 3 trips at first, while VIA has about the same number of trips. Not a lot to ask, it could easily be scheduled within. Although to expand, the VIA line would need to be double-tracked.
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  #147  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2012, 5:12 AM
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  #148  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2012, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Sometimes you do have to sympathize with rurals' complaints.

Late last week the McGuinty government came up with some cash to keep building a large hole in the ground at Baseline, much of which will go to another 'temporary' (as in temporarily-used) Baseline Station until the LRT-BRT transfer version is built.

By the time we're done with Baseline in all its incarnations, we'll likely have spent as much on its throwaway components (including the oversizing of the tunnel already in place) as would be needed to buy the entire Beachburg Sub out to Pembroke outright.

A final irony is that the powers-that-be will probably insist on grade separation of the future transitway extension southwards where it crosses the Beachburg Sub between Norice and Knoxdale, a line that by then will be little more than an extremely long industrial spur line to Arnprior seeing just one rail movement a week.
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  #149  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2013, 12:11 AM
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Has anyone heard anything from the two different companies proposing commuter routes to/through Ottawa since this happened? Or are both proposals dead because CN tore up the tracks?
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  #150  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2013, 12:34 AM
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At this point, the tracks are still intact at least as far as the Morris Island bridge near Fitzroy. I am aware of some attempted legal action on the Quebec side, but I don't know if anything has come of it.

I gather some rail removals have taken place in and around Pembroke, but even that I'm not sure of.


Note that the CP tracks in Pembroke (along the Ottawa River) have definitely been removed; the CN tracks skirt the outside of Pembroke, along with a few industrial spurs.
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  #151  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2013, 1:57 PM
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At this point, the tracks are still intact at least as far as the Morris Island bridge near Fitzroy.
I gather some rail removals have taken place in and around Pembroke, but even that I'm not sure of.

Note that the CP tracks in Pembroke (along the Ottawa River) have definitely been removed; the CN tracks skirt the outside of Pembroke, along with a few industrial spurs.
What is really an issue is that all levels of government have sat on the sidelines and done nothing. This is the equivalent of tearing up Hwy 17 and say that now you have to get to Sudbury or North Bay by going to Toronto first. This line should have been considered as part the national rail network. CP is supposed to remove the tracks between Mattawa and Pembroke this summer. That will sever the link in Pembroke between CN and CP that could route trains from Sudbury and points west to Montreal via Ottawa. This adds additional mileage and time onto trains routed from the west to Montreal and makes the restoration of passenger service in the future and impossibility. One of largest military bases CFB Petawawa will now be with out rail service for moving heavy equipment where needed, which is of strategic importance. The whole economic development of the Ottawa valley will be negatively impacted over the long term as fuel prices continue to rise making truck transportation more expensive.
If CN or CP don't want their portions of the line, then they should be forced to run several trains a day on the route regardless of who owns the line. If traffic can be consolidated on the line then there is a hope for its future. This forced routing can be seen as an insurance policy that provides them with an alternative routing in case of derailments on other routes to Montreal from the west. This would allow the purchaser of the lines to at least break even on the lines. It is difficult to believe that at one time there was enough traffic to have large sections of the lines signalized and some sections even operated under Centralized Train Control.
Once again the politicians have failed us.
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  #152  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2013, 2:33 PM
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What is really an issue is that all levels of government have sat on the sidelines and done nothing. This is the equivalent of tearing up Hwy 17 and say that now you have to get to Sudbury or North Bay by going to Toronto first. This line should have been considered as part the national rail network. CP is supposed to remove the tracks between Mattawa and Pembroke this summer.
In fact, part of the line between Mattawa and Pembroke was removed last September; here's a Google Streetview shot from Petawawa:

http://goo.gl/tKmif

It would seem the Streetview crew was in the area at the very time the tracks were being removed since the rails are intact at another street to the south, though you can see the then end-of-track at a siding:

http://goo.gl/29208

And some of the clean-up crews at two another crossings:

http://goo.gl/he7ep
http://goo.gl/kkZTS

Finally, at the northern end of Petawawa we again see the end-of-track:

http://goo.gl/BCAaI

So basically during the time the Streetview crew toured Petawawa in September 2012, the line went from being intact through Petawawa to being removed in Petawawa.

Whether the removals last year stopped at Petawawa (at least allowing CFB Petawawa rail access to the west) or went to the end of the subdivision in Chalk River, I don't know. Regardless, the link is now severed and gone.

Quote:
That will sever the link in Pembroke between CN and CP that could route trains from Sudbury and points west to Montreal via Ottawa. This adds additional mileage and time onto trains routed from the west to Montreal and makes the restoration of passenger service in the future and impossibility. One of largest military bases CFB Petawawa will now be with out rail service for moving heavy equipment where needed, which is of strategic importance. The whole economic development of the Ottawa valley will be negatively impacted over the long term as fuel prices continue to rise making truck transportation more expensive.
If CN or CP don't want their portions of the line, then they should be forced to run several trains a day on the route regardless of who owns the line. If traffic can be consolidated on the line then there is a hope for its future. This forced routing can be seen as an insurance policy that provides them with an alternative routing in case of derailments on other routes to Montreal from the west. This would allow the purchaser of the lines to at least break even on the lines. It is difficult to believe that at one time there was enough traffic to have large sections of the lines signalized and some sections even operated under Centralized Train Control.
Once again the politicians have failed us.
The lack of vision amongst just about everyone involved in this is astounding... there was not even an attempt to splice together the CN and CP trackage in Pembroke into a single line running from North Bay to Ottawa.
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  #153  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2013, 2:16 PM
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I was just chatting with the new PLQ candidate for Pontiac and we started talking about transportation and economic challenges in the riding and it got me thinking, so I did some research on different low-cost, low-ridership rail solutions and man, there are some systems in the US like the Nashville Music City Star (what a name, eh?) which were set up for just over $40M for more than 50km with ridership barely surpassing 1000 trips per day. The Alamont Commuter Express was set up for a similar price, fetching a ridership of over 3000 trips per day over 140km. In comparison, I believe the highway to Arnprior was some $500M.

Rail service to areas surrounding Ottawa could most definitely get more than 500 people per day and, at under $50M in capital costs for an Arnprior-Ottawa line, I believe it's entirely justifiable. Places like Wakefield, Montebello and the Pontiac would benefit enormously from easy access to Ottawa's basin of tourists and weekenders (as Wakefield already does with the steam train) and residents of places like Arnprior, Perth, Alexandria and especially Buckingham would be able to commute easily to the city. Here in Ottawa, we would have to suffer through less congestion, all while getting easy access to the region that surrounds us.

Best of all, once you install the platforms and buy the trains, you're ready to go - trial train service could be implemented between any two points for almost nothing in a matter of months, if not weeks. This is very low-hanging fruit. I mean, there's even a consortium which is vying to start this up (MOOSE) and all they really need is the go-ahead from the provinces, the federal government and the city.

Let's do this already!
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  #154  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2013, 3:01 PM
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MOOSE ahs been inactive for some time now, haven't they?
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  #155  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2013, 4:43 PM
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MOOSE ahs been inactive for some time now, haven't they?
Actually, it would seem not. I just found that their website has been updated, they're still interacting with Ottawa about the Prince of Wales Bridge, they've sent a rather detailed letter to Gatineau's mayor-elect and they're meeting with Smith Falls's mayor later in the week.

Alive and kickin', it would seem!

I actually think that they (or someone else) might actually be successful in at least running trains along the existing rail line to Buckingham, considering how many agree that the Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin's promise to 'fix' the Rapibus delays in the east of the city is what pushed him into office and there's still a lot of pressure on him to find a solution. Rail to the east could be the silver-bullet: the infrastructure is there (minus upgraded signalisation and platforms) and mostly owned by the STO and it could be implemented within a matter of months on a 'pilot' basis (similar to the O-Train) for very little money.
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  #156  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2013, 5:50 PM
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Actually, it would seem not. I just found that their website has been updated, they're still interacting with Ottawa about the Prince of Wales Bridge, they've sent a rather detailed letter to Gatineau's mayor-elect and they're meeting with Smith Falls's mayor later in the week.

Alive and kickin', it would seem!

I actually think that they (or someone else) might actually be successful in at least running trains along the existing rail line to Buckingham, considering how many agree that the Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin's promise to 'fix' the Rapibus delays in the east of the city is what pushed him into office and there's still a lot of pressure on him to find a solution. Rail to the east could be the silver-bullet: the infrastructure is there (minus upgraded signalisation and platforms) and mostly owned by the STO and it could be implemented within a matter of months on a 'pilot' basis (similar to the O-Train) for very little money.
It's crossing it to Ottawa that's the tricky part. Watson bashed the hell out of them in July 2012 when they revealed the Queen Street subway alignment. He said the MOOSE plan was irrelevant.
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  #157  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2013, 6:31 PM
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True, I remember that. But he's changed his mind before (Airport...) and, if MOOSE does indeed get the go-ahead to operate to Buckingham, Montebello and/or Wakefield and it does indeed go well, it would give a lot of weight to their proposal on the Ontario side. And considering that they're pushing a "100% private" project, it would/should be of no cost to the city.
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  #158  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2013, 11:08 PM
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This reminds me, didn't Dalton McGuinty once upon a time say that the Government of Ontario would help support a type of GO Transit for Eastern Ontario?
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  #159  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2013, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix View Post
This reminds me, didn't Dalton McGuinty once upon a time say that the Government of Ontario would help support a type of GO Transit for Eastern Ontario?
I don't remember that, but I wouldn't be surprised if he said such a thing before becoming Premier.

As for Watson's change of heart about the airport, it might be more a "oh, yea sure, we'll study it... (but we already know the result of the study; more rail for farm fields, no rail for the airport will benefit our re-election campaign so don't expect anything unless you built it yourself. The study is just a way to shut you up like the time we "studied" a pedestrian tunnel between the NAC and Downtown East station to shut up the critics of eliminating the Confederation Square station...)".
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  #160  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2013, 1:12 AM
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Places like Wakefield, Montebello and the Pontiac would benefit enormously from easy access to Ottawa's basin of tourists and weekenders (as Wakefield already does with the steam train)
Is the steam train going to be back next year? I thought it was still on hiatus or something due to track issues.
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