YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[nname]

Does the high density 777-300ER even have enough range for such a long route? The maximum range for the -300ER is about 3000 km shorter than the -200LR, which is barely enough to complete the route with full load, and certainly not enough for any possible diversion. Airlines that uses the -300ER on long routes like that may have to scarify some density to reduce the load...

[GMasterAres]

AZ uses a 777-219ER. I think the range on the 300ER is fine. Have about 1200nm to play with on a flight from Syd to Van.

[Johnny Aussie]

The new CEO of VIAA really being proactive in trying to find more passengers. Really thinking outside the box.

http://www.biv.com/article/20131101/BIV0...port-ceo-urges-canada-to-accept-us-visas

[trofirhen]

Please don't accuse me of copycating in any way.

Johnny, you deliver up-to-the-moment developments at VYR better than anyone.

Nevertheless, in a last year's article from BIV, and also by Glen Korstrom,
about much of which is already known (the launch of LH to MUC etc; old stuff) .....

... there is current relevancy. An interesting overview of the route expansions that people at YVR have in mind, in this excerpt.
An expansion substantially larger to what we now have, if it ever came about. I hope it will and that most
-(this being a little old hat, yes, but interesting anyway)-would look forward to it.

*
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

YVR aims to add non-stop flights to India, South America


VIAA executives are negotiating with carriers to launch non-stop flights to India, Peru and Chile to service business demand.

Executives such as Optimus Information Inc. CEO Pankaj Agarwal have told Business in Vancouver
that they would buy business-class tickets on non-stop flights to India if those flights existed.

Agarwal travels to India about four times each year because his company has a New Delhi office,
and he currently has to fly business class out of Vancouver either on Japan Airlines or Lufthansa.
He believes that were a carrier to fly non-stop to India from Vancouver that the flights would also attract
Seattle passengers because there’s no non-stop option to New Delhi from the North American west coast.

VIAA’s Korenic said that strong demand for business-class tickets is key to the viability of non-stop flights between Vancouver and New Delhi.

“Volume is not the issue. We have a large market with India and a large potential market on the tourism side –
but do we have a big enough business market to support the route?
Some aircraft could have a full flight and still lose money.”

Korenic has been researching the viability of non-stop flights to Peru and Chile partly because there’s no non-stop service from Vancouver to South America.
Many local mining companies have major operations in those countries. Vancouver-based Finning International Inc.’s (TSX:FTT) Chilean subsidiary has been growing fast
and won US$497 million worth of new contracts earlier this month.

Korenic is also trying to convince airlines to agree to launch non-stop flights to:

•second-tier Chinese cities such as Wuhan, Xiamen and Huangzhou;

•the Persian Gulf; and

•Southeast Asia.
Tags: Chile, India, Peru, Air Canada, Finning International Inc., tourism, Vancouver International Airport Authority, gross domestic product, mining, air transport

http://www.biv.com/article/20121120/BIV0...ational-non-stop-services-from-vancouver

[Prometheus]

Visa initiative could draw new direct flights to YVR



By Glen Korstrom, Business In Vancouver, Monday, November 4, 2013

Federal government red tape is strangling Vancouver International Airport's ability to be a gateway to the Americas while costing the city hundreds of jobs, according to Vancouver International Airport Authority (VIAA) CEO Craig Richmond.

One stifling regulation requires Chinese nationals to get a Canadian visa when they change planes at Vancouver International Airport (YVR) en route to South America.

That inconvenience steers Chinese traffic to South America through other cities, such as Dubai, Richmond told Business in Vancouver.

"There're 1.2 million people flying annually between China and South America and [the amount of traffic] is going to explode because of mining work," he said. "We're not taking advantage of that."

Liberalized Canadian visa requirements would enable Vancouver to tap into that traffic and make it viable for an airline to operate direct flights between Vancouver and South America.

No direct flights operate between Vancouver and South America, but the number of direct flights between Vancouver and mainland China hit a high of 54-per-week earlier this year.

If Vancouver does land some of the traffic between China and South America, Richmond would seek approval to build a "secure transit facility," where South American-bound Chinese nationals and others would be able to wait and change planes – all without clearing Canadian customs. That area would include duty-free shops, spas, showers and other amenities along with boarding gates.

The Canadian government currently requires most international passengers changing planes in Vancouver to pass through Canadian customs.

VIAA research estimates that each new daily international flight generates between 150 and 200 direct jobs servicing planes, passengers and cargo at YVR.

Each new flight from China creates 400 more jobs across Metro Vancouver at cafes, hotels and tourist attractions, Richmond said.

"This will generate a lot of business for us," China Southern Airlines marketing and business development manager Paul Chu told BIV.

He added that if traffic is substantial China Southern would consider basing a plane in Vancouver, which would create more jobs. China Eastern Airlines marketing and sales manager Ben Lee told BIV that if visa-free transit results in a strong uptick in traffic, his airline would also increase flights through Vancouver.

Source: http://www.biv.com/article/20131104/BIV0...ive-could-draw-new-direct-flights-to-yvr

[deasine]

TBH the entire transit visa thing baffles me. Unlike US, most Canadian airports are configured to allow for int'l-int'l connections bypassing the need for customs. Without even major modifications to YVR, this is already possible so I'm not sure why a "secure transit zone" is required given that one cannot leave the int'l departures area already. (Note the difference in the US, where one can freely leave a secured area and where int'l and domestic flights can be accessed from the same area).

Given that people can't technically leave and won't be "entering" Canada, I can't see why we need transit visas.

[YVR Bruce]

Originally Posted by deasine

Given that people can't technically leave and won't be "entering" Canada, I can't see why we need transit visas.

The issue is on the other end of YVR-originating intern'l flights, which are currently accepted in places as FRA as Canadian-controlled. With an open cross-dock of PX here, it would change "our" treatment at many destinations. Just watch an arrival of Iran Air at CPH or FRA: an initial passport inspection + interview at the gate before allowing those Px to the terminal and immigration.

Much bigger hubs such as FRA screen all arrivals prior to transfer

[trofirhen]

Whatever the case, I think this move is going to push YVR up into a higher tier of airport importance, and than can only be good, good, good.
(unless you live in an area subject to airplane noise)!

[Johnny Aussie]

Effective 12 November CMA is increasing YVR-YDQ to 12 flights per week from 6 per week. All flights to be operated by Dash8-100.

[Johnny Aussie]

I realise this is a rising market and all that but still not a huge market....

With Westjet Encore starting the 2 new daily fights the end of this month and Air Canada's increasing from 3 to 4 daily this winter... PLUS Hawkair increasing to up to 24 flights per week this winter (up from only 19 last year).. that's getting close to 10 flights per day. Crazy growth in seats!

With the additional flights to Ft St John and Dawson Creek, good to see flights to Northern BC increasing

Now to get some non-stops to Grande Prairie, Red Deer and Lethbridge. Perhaps re-start Yellowknife too.

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Now to get some non-stops to Grande Prairie, Red Deer and Lethbridge. Perhaps re-start Yellowknife too.

How about some added capacity to Prince Rupert. Currently 3 flights per day (2 AC, 1 HawkAir). Either another flight, or Q400s instead of 300s. I fly YYJ-YPR via YVR once every 6 weeks or so, and for the past 2 years I would estimate flight are no less than 90% full...quite often full.

[Denscity]

Wow Castlegar has more flights than Prince Rupert!! Weve got 4 AC flights a day:3 Vancouver and 1 Calgary. Population 8000. And bidding for Encore. And rumours of an American airline to service the nearby ski hills.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Wow Castlegar has more flights than Prince Rupert!! Weve got 4 AC flights a day:3 Vancouver and 1 Calgary. Population 8000. And bidding for Encore. And rumours of an American airline to service the nearby ski hills.

Yeah but that is just to strengthen the odds that one of those flights can actually make it in.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Wow Castlegar has more flights than Prince Rupert!! Weve got 4 AC flights a day:3 Vancouver and 1 Calgary. Population 8000. And bidding for Encore. And rumours of an American airline to service the nearby ski hills.

OK, but Castlegar services all the local towns in the area - Nelson, Trail, Rossland, etc. - right? The population of those three alone is nearly 2x Prince Rupert.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Yeah but that is just to strengthen the odds that one of those flights can actually make it in.

Haha zing. So is having a mountain at each end of the runway not normal??

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

OK, but Castlegar services all the local towns in the area - Nelson, Trail, Rossland, etc. - right? The population of those three alone is nearly 2x Prince Rupert.

Yes. YCG is the West Kootenay Regional Airport and the regions population is 80000+. Which means we are currently UNDERserved then.
We also have more flights than Penticton which also has a population of roughly 80000. Would love all these rumoured additions to our airport!!

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

OK, but Castlegar services all the local towns in the area - Nelson, Trail, Rossland, etc. - right? The population of those three alone is nearly 2x Prince Rupert.

You're right, and was going to be my point on the comparison between YPR and YCG. YPR only really serves Prince Rupert...with many people in Prince Rupert actually flying out of Terrace because of better choices, and no old bus and ferry to the airport.

YCG has a great nickname - "Cancel-gar".

[Johnny Aussie]

Good to see some lively discussions.

I think the one hurdle to any of these other places is the size of the metal. Need a lot of bums to fill a 78-seater. Even with lower operating costs to break-even a lot of capacity to absorb.

I think Encore is going to shift some of its focus to Central and Eastern Canada as well so perhaps Western expansion will slow.

I am pleasantly surprised at the new routes from YVR, but I still think there will be more on the horizon. But when looking at the potential new bases I think the number will be quite limited.

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Good to see some lively discussions.

I think the one hurdle to any of these other places is the size of the metal. Need a lot of bums to fill a 78-seater. Even with lower operating costs to break-even a lot of capacity to absorb.

For YPR I was thinking more along the lines of AC using Q400 in place of their Q300s. Only 25 or so more seats to sell, instead of finding a full 78 new bums. I don't think Encore will give YPR much thought until they have fully served Terrace and get a good indication of how many passengers going to/coming from Rupert there are. I wish they would though for my sake....

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Haha zing. So is having a mountain at each end of the runway not normal??

Yes, those mountains indeed create a challenge. Maybe that's why the aviation school is there.
Flight training at an airport with the most difficult (and dangerous) steeply angled
takeoffs and landings make a guy ready for just about any airport.