YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

I don't think this is "good news" per say, aside from the addition of Premium Y. J passengers loose their pods configuration, while the masses in Y are sardined into a 3-4-3 configuration (vs. existing 3-3-3).

The only 777 that has a higher capacity than AC is AF, but they only send those to vacation destinations. The capacity on the new 777s actually fits more passengers than some QF, SQ, and KE A380s...

Funny, I was going to add a proviso to the AC LHR comment something like good news and in brackets (but not necessarily in a service way) but didn't! Ha.
I was talking from a capacity point of view only!
If you think that's bad... YVR-HKG is going to me even more harsh! Westbound is going to be a killer in Y.
I hope AC keeps their hands off the SYD-YVR route... I like the status quo :-) and speaking of SQ A380... Another flight on that beautiful bird in just a couple of weeks :-). And also having a ride on the Dreamliner in about 5 weeks time :-)

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I hope AC keeps their hands off the SYD-YVR route... I like the status quo :-)

AC last year increased frequency to SYD to 10 weekly during the winter. Maybe this year the added capacity for the 77Ws would circumvent the need to run more planes 17-hours on any plane is bad, 17-hours on that thing is definitely a killer.

There's a reason why I fly UA now. I would rather fly AC to be honest, but the Tango 50% mileage-earn fares and high density configurations make me choose UA. Plus I get complimentary Y+ seats, which beats AC Y any day.

To be honest though, I don't really think 3-4-3 is that terrible given that this seems to be the direction most airlines are going with (EK, NZ, AA all have 3-4-3 configurations on 777s; 3-3-3 configurations are also found on all 787 operators except for JL, NH will be configuring it to a higher density). But ACs 77W deployment to HKG is the longest flight, and most of these operators with high density configurations aren't flights as long as YVR-HKG.

[connect2source]

[QUOTE=Johnny Aussie;6300330]So now effective 29 Jan 2014 the B744 upgauge previously noted for the Feb-Mar period is being extended indefinitely right through summer 2014.

Great for spotting but not as a passenger as many of LH's 744's have not yet had interior upgrades to include PTV's and other Y class enhancements, much needed for the 10+ hours to ( edit ) FRA.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by deasine

I don't think this is "good news" per say, aside from the addition of Premium Y. J passengers loose their pods configuration.

Have you flown the new J? What do you dislike about it?

(YYC is also being up-gauged to the 773 to LHR and FRA)

[libtard]

Originally Posted by whatnext

A couple shots I took today of the new Larry Berg planespotting park at the end of runway 26L. I like the minirunway, wonder if it lights up at night?

Indeed it does

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

Have you flown the new J? What do you dislike about it?

(YYC is also being up-gauged to the 773 to LHR and FRA)

I haven't, but I've tried an exact product before: it's alright, nothing too special. For the East Coast and Europe, this product isn't too bad because: (1) it's not a long flight, (2) the competition has mediocre J products, the LH old J, AF J, KL J are worse than ACs (I think only Club World in BA might be better but I don't know). However, competing against Asian airlines, CX's reverse herringbone configuration is arguably much better. I think the worse part of the new AC Js is loosing the direct aisle access, whereas the pods had them before. I've also heard reports of feeling really narrow, but personally I didn't think this was an issue.

Mind you I'm usually back in Y so...

Originally Posted by libtard

Indeed it does

Can also confirm; was there last night!

[Johnny Aussie]

United

IAH - adding a second service on Sundays for the bulk of the winter scheds
DEN - adding a third service (Express) on Saturdays and Sundays

Overall slight upguaging on all routes as well compared to last winter.

Alaska(Horizon)

SEA - a seventh daily DH4 being added (compared to 6 last couple of winters)

[deasine]

Some bad news. AC has applied HND-YYZ flight taking advantage of the recent Japan-Canada bilateral.

http://www.travelvision.jp/news/detail.php?id=59225

AC's original HND route was to YVR, but that was cancelled last minute in part due to (1) poor demand which is connected to (2) poor timing of slots that didn't work for business travellers nor for connecting passengers.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

Some bad news. AC has applied HND-YYZ flight taking advantage of the recent Japan-Canada bilateral.

http://www.travelvision.jp/news/detail.php?id=59225

AC's original HND route was to YVR, but that was cancelled last minute in part due to (1) poor demand which is connected to (2) poor timing of slots that didn't work for business travellers nor for connecting passengers.

Sorry your link is only in Japanese. Is there an English link?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Sorry your link is only in Japanese. Is there an English link?

You'll need to use Google Translate for now; there hasn't been any English sources at this point in time.

This is timely as AA just yesterday announced ending HND-JFK. A HND-YYZ-East Coast could work if timed properly.

[YYCspotter]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Sorry your link is only in Japanese. Is there an English link?

(AC) has applied for Haneda / Toronto line in the 2014 summer schedule to IATA ( International Air Transport Association ) Air Canada . To take advantage of the daytime slots observed in aviation negotiations between Canada and Japan , it's underway to prepare for the in service from the end of March next year . Mr. Weiss Takayo of AC Japan branch length is revealed in the Showcase Canada - Asia 2013 being held in Hangzhou of China .

It said, " as well as the Tokyo metropolitan area , Haneda is expected to transit demand from the region . We would like to increase sales in Japan ," said Mr. Weiss hopes to Haneda . Equipment expected to become a Boeing B777 aircraft . AC was planning the flying of Haneda / Vancouver line by using the frame early morning late in 2012 , but there are circumstances who stopped because it is not expected to be enough demand .

The AC also filed Narita line . According to Weiss , Calgary and Vancouver wire line to maintain the 7 flights per week , will continue studying the future for Toronto line . For transit demand , it's thought of as " or not , can I respond to that demand even Haneda " because it routes from Asia to fly into Haneda will increase future when when in Narita .

In addition , Weiss showed the idea to strengthen stimulate demand to Cuba and South America , including the United States as Toronto continues beyond . Also, if you are a transit time when on the same day in Vancouver via , and also mentioned that that there are no collection of tax . Further, since the ESTA is required at the time of U.S. entry , as well as to highlight the benefits of Canada direct flights , immigration has appeal and smooth in the United States entry in Canada via the case entering the Canada through the United States .


I google translated it, so it won't be 100% accurate.

Edit: some of this makes little sense.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by YYCspotter

I google translated it, so it won't be 100% accurate.

Edit: some of this makes little sense.

That was rather entertaining.

In any event I think I got the gist of most of it. YYZ-HND switch from NRT whilst YVR and YYC maintain NRT.

[Hot Rod]

Also I understand the end as:

YYZ may be expanded into routes in the US, Cuba, and South America (likely via code share) given Canadian preclearance Immigration standards. If anticipated demand to those nations exceeds expectations, then it might be possible to route them to HND via Vancouver as well, or exclusively.

[Johnny Aussie]

So ANA has been awarded a Haneda - Canada slot.

Since AC has also been awarded a Haneda - Canada slot and it appears AC wants to use this for a YYZ - NRT flight....

So which route do you all think NH (All Nippon Airways or ANA) will use for its slot?

I would guess YVR? But nothing would surprise me in the airline world these days...

An interesting analysis of the whole HND slot awards...

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ja...rita-airport-remains-the-main-hub-132103

When politics is so involved in airline routing and this is made public... it makes for all sorts of interesting speculation!

[deasine]

Hmmm this is an interesting one. One would think YVR might be an obvious choice, but keep in mind YVR doesn't have the capacity/flights that can feed additional transborder traffic. Given the current capacity to Japan from YVR, I'm not sure if there is O&D enough demand to support an additional regular service flight. I know the JL flights are often pretty empty... YYZ actually has the potential capacity/traffic.

Keep in mind, NH also flies to SEA albeit using a NRT with a smaller capacity 787. And while there is more transfer traffic capacity at SEA (especially in domestic US), SEA isn't a UA fortress unlike SFO, which explains the smaller capacity aircraft (and 787 also allows for addt'l profit on "thinner" yielding routes).

THAT BEING SAID, NH and UA have a TPAC JV. Given ACs Transborder with UA and TATL A++ JVs UA, LH, AC, in addition to ACs desire to re-focus on Asia and capture more US transfer traffic, AC could join UA/NH TPAC JV, which would make a HND-YVR flight much more attractive.

BUT, just because NH has a slot doesn't mean they have to use it. Canada didn't use its HND slots for a long time, and United States only used it for their AA flight for the reason that it was so highly coveted. Then again, with NH gaining so many more slots than JL, it might be in NHs interest to "use it for now" to ensure that they keep the slot to themselves so that it won't be transferred to JL.

I'm just thinking aloud.

[Prometheus]

YVR ready to connect the dots

By Chuck Chiang, Vancouver Sun October 20, 2013


YVR may already have more direct flights to China than any other airport in North America, but to Craig Richmond, the true potential of Vancouver International Airport as a global gateway has yet to be unleashed.

Richmond, the newly minted president and CEO of the Vancouver Airport Authority, is scheduled to speak this week to the Vancouver Board of Trade regarding YVR’s future plans. But in an interview last week, he discussed in detail some of the main points of his vision, one which could unleash Vancouver’s geographical advantage as a major transfer point between two burgeoning Pacific markets — Asia and Latin America.

With 17.6 million passengers and 228,000 tonnes of cargo travelling through YVR last year, the airport is already home to 23,000 jobs and the country’s second busiest air travel facility. But officials at YVR envision even more traffic — and thus, even more jobs and economic benefits to B.C.

The idea is to leverage Vancouver’s position as a connection gateway between the two continents to realize YVR’s full strength as one of British Columbia’s highest-profile economic engines.

Richmond called it “connections that work.”

“You can call it a gateway,” Richmond said of his vision for YVR. “You can call it whatever you want. But the fact is, YVR has always been a gateway throughout its history … and it is a status we’d like to at least maintain.”

According to Richmond, YVR’s strong collection of flights from China — 75 per week at current count — gives the airport a powerful clientele to work with when engaging air carriers on Latin American destinations, especially those located in South America, where there are currently no direct flights from Vancouver.

Vancouver’s sizable natural resources industry has been seeking direct flights to places such as Lima, Peru or Santiago, Chile for years, but the added leverage of business travellers from China and other regions of Asia may finally open that door, Richmond said.

(Roughly 271,000 scheduled passengers from Asia Pacific destinations like China passed through YVR in August — up 10 per cent from last year.)

“Even with the mining companies we have here (in Vancouver), it’s just not enough,” he said, noting local traffic isn’t enough to entice airlines to begin direct services. “But with connecting passengers from Beijing, from Shanghai, from Hong Kong, now you have a viable route.”

The key is the securing of a “transfer without visa” program to allow a quicker, more convenient connection process for international passengers travelling between Asia and South America through Vancouver.

In Asia, the system is already big business. Major airports (Tokyo’s Narita and Haneda, Seoul’s Incheon, Beijing’s Capital, Shanghai’s Pudong, Hong Kong, Bangkok’s Suvarnabhumi and Singapore’s Changi) all vie for international connection business, and it is extraordinarily common for foreign passengers to quickly connect from their home countries onto flights to a third country without entering the country where the airport is located.

In many of these airports, the connection areas’ duty-free shopping and services rival five-star hotels and major malls, and the revenue generated is staggering. Seoul’s Incheon International generated US$1.73 billion in duty free sales in 2012, with annual growth rates at around 13 to 14 per cent, according to a report by travel publication TR Business.

In YVR’s case, there is currently a “transfer without visa” program in place for travel between China and the United States. Richmond said a similar agreement with other countries would create a boon that would inject serious capital into the economy of the Lower Mainland.

“We’ve had conversations with carriers, and they’ve said they would definitely prefer the (visa-free transfer) program,” Richmond said, but added that it is imperative that officials in Ottawa realize the opportunity at hand.

It’s hard, at this point, to not recall the aviation dispute between Canada and the United Arab Emirates of the past few years. The squabble resulted in defence minister Peter MacKay’s flight being denied landing rights in the UAE in 2010, and Emirates could not gain direct flights from Dubai to places like YVR and Calgary, or additional flights to Toronto Pearson.

Instead, Emirates launched a number of other routes, including a Dubai-Seattle service — one viewed by Richmond as an opportunity lost.

“People speak about win-win situations,” he said. “In commercial aviation, there’s always a winner and a loser, because a one air carrier flight can only go to one place. Last year, Seattle got Emirates. In that case, they won.

“We need to be more modern in our thinking. Sometimes, Ottawa wants to keep people out, and that’s not how the modern world works. “

YVR has worked hard to prepare for the global transfer point it aims to be, Richmond added. A $100 million high-speed baggage system is under construction, and the Airport Authority plans to revisit its master development plan early next year to review its next steps. Meanwhile, officials plan to meet with Ottawa on the visa-free transfer program in November.

For Richmond, YVR is ready.

“It’s risk-free,” he said. “We have the money and the expertise. We just need the permission to do it. … Our whole reason for being is to create jobs for B.C., and we can do more of that — much more — if government lets us.”

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asi...ct+dots/9058732/story.html#ixzz2iIMIWbz6

[Spork]

Photos of some sort of construction at YVR. B concourse renovations, perhaps? Taken by me about 2 weeks ago.

[Jebby]

I'm surprised YVR doesn't have visa-free transfers for international flights.

[trofirhen]

Making YVR a "hinge" between Asia and South America seems a fantastic concept for the growth of YVR, and I hope others agree on that.

However, using an air miles calculator, and assuming that long haul jets (presumably 787s) would be used on such routes, the distance from HK to Sao Paolo via YYZ is 20,766 km, whereas via YVR it is 21,346 km.

This makes the Vancouver run 570 km (361 miles) longer.

However ... HK to Lima via YYZ is 18,769 km, while from Vancouver it is a little SHORTER at 18,451 km, a difference, favoring Vancouver, of 318 km.

Would such figures have any impact on route choice regarding fuel costs?
I hope that YVR can indeed find a role as an Asia - S. America transfer hub.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Making YVR a "hinge" between Asia and South America seems a fantastic concept for the growth of YVR, and I hope others agree on that.

However, using an air miles calculator, and assuming that long haul jets (presumably 787s) would be used on such routes, the distance from HK to Sao Paolo via YYZ is 20,766 km, whereas via YVR it is 21,346 km.

This makes the Vancouver run 570 km (361 miles) longer.

However ... HK to Lima via YYZ is 18,769 km, while from Vancouver it is a little SHORTER at 18,451 km, a difference, favoring Vancouver, of 318 km.

Would such figures have any impact on route choice regarding fuel costs?
I hope that YVR can indeed find a role as an Asia - S. America transfer hub.

I don't think Sao Paolo would be considered for such a route, I doubt there's much Vancouver-Brazil business like there is in the mining/resource sector for Vancouver-based companies with operations in Colombia/Peru/Chile/Venezuela.