HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations



Related Pages:  • San Francisco Projects & Construction Forum  • San Francisco Highrise Developments Map


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #5221  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 4:17 AM
Jerry of San Fran's Avatar
Jerry of San Fran Jerry of San Fran is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by fflint View Post
Anybody looking for an $8,000/month apartment above Whole Foods?

That's the top rental tier at 38 Dolores! But don't worry--you can get a studio for only $3,000.

Does it come with the gold leaf toilet paper? Insane!
__________________
(Essex) Fox Plaza resident 55th year in 2026 - (the building everyone loves to hate :------>))
     
     
  #5222  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 5:55 AM
tech12's Avatar
tech12 tech12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland
Posts: 3,330
I know it's really old news, but these housing prices are fucking ridiculous.
     
     
  #5223  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 9:46 AM
mt_climber13 mt_climber13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,287
Sacramento is the new Oakland. Oakland is the new San Francisco. San Francisco is the new Manhattan.
     
     
  #5224  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 3:06 PM
fimiak's Avatar
fimiak fimiak is offline
Build Baby Build
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 969
I moved here from Manhattan not quite two years ago. My apt there was $1000 less than mine is here, and I lived in the upper west side and had similar sq footage. SF is seeing something unreal, and it is frustrating because residents who own and who have rent control are immune to the market.
__________________
San Francisco Projects List ∞ The city that knows how ∞ 2017 ∞ 884,363 ∞ ~2030 ∞ 1,000,000
San Francisco Projects ThreadOakland Projects ThreadOceanwide Center - 275M/901'
     
     
  #5225  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 3:27 PM
jaypkatl jaypkatl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 76
Rents in the city are becoming rediculous. I am looking for a 1 bedroom apt (we are outgrowing our studio) and what you get for your $$ is crap. I have modified rent control where I am now so its hard to give up a $930 apt where the rent has only gone up once in 3 years.
     
     
  #5226  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 3:57 PM
hruski hruski is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypkatl View Post
Rents in the city are becoming rediculous. I am looking for a 1 bedroom apt (we are outgrowing our studio) and what you get for your $$ is crap. I have modified rent control where I am now so its hard to give up a $930 apt where the rent has only gone up once in 3 years.
If I were you, I'd sublet or AirBnB my studio to subsidize the rent of my 1-BR. You could easily sublet that studio for $1700/mo and you'd probably get upwards of $2400/mo for AirBnB'ing it, though that would take more upkeep and management on your end.
     
     
  #5227  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 4:09 PM
BushMan BushMan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypkatl View Post
Rents in the city are becoming rediculous. I am looking for a 1 bedroom apt (we are outgrowing our studio) and what you get for your $$ is crap. I have modified rent control where I am now so its hard to give up a $930 apt where the rent has only gone up once in 3 years.
Yes, and all of the city's beloved "social engineering" schemes like "affordable housing for undocumented/formerly homeless/LGBT/senior citizens" and rent control only make the problem worse.

Life is wonderful if you happen to fit into the chosen demographic and win the insane lottery for a prized unit, on the other hand it's a real drag if you happen to be just a hard-working "regular guy" who has to do it the hard way. The funny thing is I actually own property in SF so even though I think it's a joke all of this nonsense is really just inflating my own property value.

Really, Econ 1A is very simple, if you take a very scarce commodity that is in very high demand and try to solve the problem by arbitrarily pricing that commodity well below it's market value it will not end good, regardless of how "compassionate" it makes you feel at the end of the day.

Not to mention the NIMBY B.S. (recently discussed in this forum) which further limits supply unnecessarily.
     
     
  #5228  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 4:25 PM
tech12's Avatar
tech12 tech12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland
Posts: 3,330
The city should annex part of San Mateo county (Daly city, Brisbane, Colma, Pacifica, South San Francisco, San Bruno, etc), and start building midrise and highrise apartments all over the place. There's this huge area of undeveloped land (looks like abandoned parking lots and former industrial land or something) that's part of Brisbane, and is located just south of Visitacion Valley/the SF border. It's roughly the size of Mission Bay and South Beach combined, and we could build dozens upon dozens of apartment buildings just there alone.

I can dream.

Last edited by tech12; Oct 16, 2013 at 4:35 PM.
     
     
  #5229  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 6:33 PM
easy as pie's Avatar
easy as pie easy as pie is offline
testify
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: 94109
Posts: 853
the real problem in sf isn't rent control, it's the insane anti-development environment. virtually every hood could do with a significant up-zoning, especially the outer hoods.
     
     
  #5230  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 6:58 PM
hruski hruski is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy as pie View Post
the real problem in sf isn't rent control, it's the insane anti-development environment. virtually every hood could do with a significant up-zoning, especially the outer hoods.
Agreed. NYC has rent-control, but its rental market is far more immune to fluctuations and the boom/bust cycle because its housing stock is huuuuge and there are always plenty of places available.
     
     
  #5231  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 7:16 PM
jaypkatl jaypkatl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 76
We do have rent control in SF

http://www.sftu.org/rentcontrol.html
     
     
  #5232  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 7:54 PM
Jerry of San Fran's Avatar
Jerry of San Fran Jerry of San Fran is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,568
100 Van Ness Avenue

A lot of the steel beams have been removed a couple of days ago where the old mechanical room used to be. Notice the "V" supports on the north and south end of the building. There will be a rooftop garden when finished. This photo was taken from the 24th floor of the Essex Fox Plaza.


100 van ness by Apollo's Light, on Flickr
__________________
(Essex) Fox Plaza resident 55th year in 2026 - (the building everyone loves to hate :------>))
     
     
  #5233  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 8:43 PM
fimiak's Avatar
fimiak fimiak is offline
Build Baby Build
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 969
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2013/10/wunderkind-architect-big-picked-for.html





Following from SocketSite:

Bjarke Ingels Group (aka BIG) has been selected to design the development of 950-974 Market Street, a proposed arts, housing, hotel and retail complex that could include a 250-room hotel, 316 residential units, 15,000 square feet of retail, and a 75,000-square-foot arts building at the corner of Market and Turk.
__________________
San Francisco Projects List ∞ The city that knows how ∞ 2017 ∞ 884,363 ∞ ~2030 ∞ 1,000,000
San Francisco Projects ThreadOakland Projects ThreadOceanwide Center - 275M/901'
     
     
  #5234  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 9:17 PM
fflint's Avatar
fflint fflint is offline
Triptastic Gen X Snoozer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 22,150
Silicon Valley housing is also exorbitant--and completely unregulated. No, San Francisco's unaffordability is due to three decades of insatiable demand for housing coupled with three decades of outrageously inadequate supply, and exacerbated by the rest of the Bay Area's stubborn refusal to build a sufficient supply of truly urban housing in vibrant, walkable/transit-oriented areas.

There's a carrot and stick at play here, and San Francisco's genuine urbanity is the carrot. True, old-school urbanity is in demand from coast to coast, and nowhere more than the Bay Area. But the land area covered by that coveted old-school urbanity here is miniscule relative to places like New York and Chicago--and that's the stick in this scenario. People who want to live in an old-school city environment in these parts have lots of choices--as long as they choose San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley and some of the region's small downtowns. The rest of the Bay Area, with few excpeptions, is relatively low-density and suburban, because local governments have essentially outlawed constructing urbanity.

Bay Area governments, yoked by NIMBYs, won't zone for a sufficient supply of dense, truly urban districts that could relieve pressure on SF and provide more affordable options around the region. The region's governments still mainly zone for, and developers build, ever-more tightly packed single-family homes and low-rise apartment complexes in auto-oriented, suburban areas. None of that stuff appeals to the folks bidding up SF prices--but that's not the half of it. All those good jobs in Silicon Valley induce people to pay through the nose for whatever housing they can get nearby, and what they get is an overpriced piece of land with a middling suburban house rather than a more affordable condo or apartment in a more compact development.

It's never going to be cheap to live here, but it's possible we could build our way to more affordability than we have now if the political calculus changed. What this region really needs is a massive increase in density and height and transit infra in large swathes. Western San Francisco? Yes. Central Oakland and Berkeley? Absolutely. But I'm also talking about the entire length of El Camino Real, and up and down Mission Boulevard, and at stations along current and future SMART, Muni, Caltrain, BART, VTA, ACE and Capitol Corridor lines, and in all the region's respective downtowns, and in newly-created redevelopment zones. NIMBYism has so far stopped that from happening in most alll those places, and NIMBYism is why this is such an unaffordable region.
__________________
"You need both a public and a private position." --Hillary Clinton, speaking behind closed doors to the National Multi-Family Housing Council, 2013

Last edited by fflint; Oct 17, 2013 at 7:12 AM. Reason: Misspelled 'exorbitant' after having two glasses of red wine. What? I took the day off!
     
     
  #5235  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 9:51 PM
fflint's Avatar
fflint fflint is offline
Triptastic Gen X Snoozer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 22,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech12 View Post
There's this huge area of undeveloped land (looks like abandoned parking lots and former industrial land or something) that's part of Brisbane, and is located just south of Visitacion Valley/the SF border. It's roughly the size of Mission Bay and South Beach combined, and we could build dozens upon dozens of apartment buildings just there alone.

I can dream.
That 659 acre brownfield is called the Brisbane Baylands, and while several plans to develop it have been proposed, nothing has of yet been approved.

I don't know if there are any live proposals, but assuming it will eventually be developed, it's going to be a complicated. The open land west of the Caltrain tracks is toxic landfill from the 1906 Earthquake; east of the tracks (up to and including 101) is toxic landfill from subsequent decades.
__________________
"You need both a public and a private position." --Hillary Clinton, speaking behind closed doors to the National Multi-Family Housing Council, 2013
     
     
  #5236  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2013, 11:28 PM
Eightball's Avatar
Eightball Eightball is offline
life is good
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: all over
Posts: 2,301
Excellent comments ya'll. El Camino Real, in particular, is a mess. Surface parking lots and one story buildings as far as the eye can see. I know streetcars/light rail has been planned for it, but that needs to happen yesterday, with a lot of housing and retail density.

Are ya'll overstating the affordability issue somewhat though? I was there two weeks ago and my cousin and her husband were just able to get a two bedroom apartment (somewhat spacious) in Glen Park for 2600. Same they were paying in Mountain View. Not amazing, but workable.

Also, aren't like 43000 units (per Socketsite) u/c or planned? still not enough, but should help mitigate future increaseshttp://www.socketsite.com/archives/2013/01/the_43580_units_in_san_franciscos_housing_pipeline.html
     
     
  #5237  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2013, 12:41 AM
fflint's Avatar
fflint fflint is offline
Triptastic Gen X Snoozer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 22,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eightball View Post
Excellent comments ya'll. El Camino Real, in particular, is a mess. Surface parking lots and one story buildings as far as the eye can see. I know streetcars/light rail has been planned for it, but that needs to happen yesterday, with a lot of housing and retail density.
There are plans for BRT-light on El Camino Real between Palo Alto and downtown San Jose, but it won't be true BRT and won't have the carrying capacity of light rail.

Quote:
I was there two weeks ago and my cousin and her husband were just able to get a two bedroom apartment (somewhat spacious) in Glen Park for 2600.
Curbed SF today put the average rent for a one bedroom apartment in San Francisco at $2,750. I don't know why your cousin is getting two bedrooms for the price of one, but her experience is an anecdote that fails to represent the rest of the city's new renters, who are facing total sticker shock.
__________________
"You need both a public and a private position." --Hillary Clinton, speaking behind closed doors to the National Multi-Family Housing Council, 2013
     
     
  #5238  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2013, 3:52 AM
Gordo's Avatar
Gordo Gordo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, WA/San Francisco, CA/Jackson Hole, WY
Posts: 4,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by fflint View Post
Silicon Valley housing is also exhorbitant--and completely unregulated. No, San Francisco's unaffordability is due to three decades of insatiable demand for housing coupled with three decades of outrageously inadequate supply, and exacerbated by the rest of the Bay Area's stubborn refusal to build a sufficient supply of truly urban housing in vibrant, walkable/transit-oriented areas.

There's a carrot and stick at play here, and San Francisco's genuine urbanity is the carrot. True, old-school urbanity is in demand from coast to coast, and nowhere more than the Bay Area. But the land area covered by that coveted old-school urbanity here is miniscule relative to places like New York and Chicago--and that's the stick in this scenario. People who want to live in an old-school city environment in these parts have lots of choices--as long as they choose San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley and some of the region's small downtowns. The rest of the Bay Area, with few excpeptions, is relatively low-density and suburban, because local governments have essentially outlawed constructing urbanity.

Bay Area governments, yoked by NIMBYs, won't zone for a sufficient supply of dense, truly urban districts that could relieve pressure on SF and provide more affordable options around the region. The region's governments still mainly zone for, and developers build, ever-more tightly packed single-family homes and low-rise apartment complexes in auto-oriented, suburban areas. None of that stuff appeals to the folks bidding up SF prices--but that's not the half of it. All those good jobs in Silicon Valley induce people to pay through the nose for whatever housing they can get nearby, and what they get is an overpriced piece of land with a middling suburban house rather than a more affordable condo or apartment in a more compact development.

It's never going to be cheap to live here, but it's possible we could build our way to more affordability than we have now if the political calculus changed. What this region really needs is a massive increase in density and height and transit infra in large swathes. Western San Francisco? Yes. Central Oakland and Berkeley? Absolutely. But I'm also talking about the entire length of El Camino Real, and up and down Mission Boulevard, and at stations along current and future SMART, Muni, Caltrain, BART, VTA, ACE and Capitol Corridor lines, and in all the region's respective downtowns, and in newly-created redevelopment zones. NIMBYism has so far stopped that from happening in most alll those places, and NIMBYism is why this is such an unaffordable region.
Excellent post, 100% agreed.

I know that we've talked about it before, but it bears repeating: Anyone who thinks that San Francisco is full of NIMBYs has never paid attention to development in Palo Alto or Cupertino or Pleasanton or <insert most other Bay Area cities here>, which collectively account for the VAST majority of potential development sites in the region.
     
     
  #5239  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2013, 6:00 AM
IMBY IMBY is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy as pie View Post
the real problem in sf isn't rent control, it's the insane anti-development environment. virtually every hood could do with a significant up-zoning, especially the outer hoods.
It puzzles me why Oakland, or Berkley, a short Bart trip across the Bay, doesn't take advantage of this, and allow more unrestrained development over there!

One thing I keep noticing, in these development photo's, is how easy it is to excavate underground in SF, it looks like sandy ground to dig into. Why was I thinking it was rocky, and it required dynamiting to go underground?

There's a good reason, here in Las Vegas, why the casino hotels, and downtown office buildings, have above-ground parking ramps. Underground parking in Las Vegas? Blast away, blast way!!!
     
     
  #5240  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2013, 6:46 AM
BushMan BushMan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 48
Just pulled from SF Gate minutes ago:

http://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/Brown-vetoes-bill-requiring-affordable-rental-4901709.php

I'm not much of a Jerry Brown fan but he's spot-on with this one.

By the way, those of you who continue to dismiss rent control and "affordable/inclusionary" housing as factors in higher housing prices are deluding yourselves. Look, a housing unit that is priced ridiculously below market is really no different than one that is not built at all, it only exacerbates the problem of too much demand/not enough supply. Is that so hard to understand??

fflint, your comment that Silicon Valley housing is "completely unregulated" is simply incorrect. Just one example, there is currently an entire "affordable housing" development under construction around the corner from my workplace in Mountain View. A brand new apartment complex in the same area contains a number of units set aside at below-market rates. Read the article I've linked, this is obviously not just a San Francisco issue, it's going on all over the peninsula and the state.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:54 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.