Huntsville updates

[SpawnOfVulcan]

You know, as sad as I am to say this, maybe downtown Huntsville's fortune isn't in building skyscrapers. I love tall buildings, but downtown doesn't need tall buildings to be successful. Normalized for area in Alabama, Huntsville's downtown has probably seen the most success within the past few years (Huntsville's downtown is quite small, IMO).

Considering the view of Monte Sano in the background, the city would either need a modest skyline or a monumental skyline, not one that is battling for dominance. Huntsville is never gonna be in a situation like LA where there is a healthy cluster of tall buildings with majestic mountains in the background.

It's perfectly reasonable to have a healthy cluster of buildings that respects the dominance of Monte Sano; though I wouldn't be against a building that is 50% taller than the Regions building.

[Saj07]

You can appreciate how small of a city Huntsville really was pre-rocket. People worked on farms and in mills. Not in high rises downtown. Madison County was once known as the watercress capital.

By the time Huntsville grew, it was due to the space age. Those jobs were out at Redstone and Marshall. People needed automobiles to commute to those jobs. Since they drove to work, there was no real need to be close to the office, so subdivisions began popping up.

So much of our city and county infrastructure is 1960s era. City hall and courthouse was built to accommodate the growing population. (That infrastructure is showing its age nearly 50 years later.) There was little to no need for corporate offices downtown during this period. I wish they would have left the old courthouse standing and chose to build a courthouse annex on the square or within a block of the square to accommodate all the expanded county offices and jail at the time.

I doubt we will ever have any or at least many high rise buildings downtown as long as the main drive for business is located out on the west side of town.

[downtownhsvguy]

Took some new pics of the Twickenham Square development. Sorry it has been so long.http://www.flickr.com/photos/92425444@N03/10260622386/

[downtownhsvguy]

Originally Posted by Saj07

I doubt we will ever have any or at least many high rise buildings downtown as long as the main drive for business is located out on the west side of town.

Things will have to change a lot. I think what they need more than anything at this point is people living downtown and housing that is modern. 301 West is an exampled of a failed attempt to to build something modern..

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by downtownhsvguy

Took some new pics of the Twickenham Square development. Sorry it has been so long.http://www.flickr.com/photos/92425444@N03/10260622386/

nice pics
too bad power poles are the tallest thing in the pictures..you could lay a giant floor over Huntsville and only have have cutouts for poles, Saturn V and some tall trees that haven't been cut down for a dollar general parking lot.

[huntsvillefan]

Originally Posted by downtownhsvguy

Took some new pics of the Twickenham Square development. Sorry it has been so long.http://www.flickr.com/photos/92425444@N03/10260622386/

Good pictures. Twickenham is a positive development for downtown Huntsville. The lack of any signature high rise buildings is laughable. Maybe Twickenham will be the catalyst Huntsville needs to get a true, center-city downtown?

[TimCity2000]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

A high profile tenant needs to come downtown

that's the key. unlike most cities, huntsville's big employers just don't reside downtown. a lot of this is logistics... NASA and the Army need their land. the research park, UAH, etc all kind of sprung up around that stuff on the west side. so other than local government and banking, there just isn't as much employment in the city center compared to other cities its size.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

You're right, Tim... many of Huntsville's largest corporations want to be near the research park which is much too far from downtown to be able to compliment it.

I think it's a good think that Huntsville has been experiencing only modest growth for the past decade. If Huntsville's growth can pick up within the next few years downtown will easily see growth. The way places like Raleigh are right now, their less dense areas are far too accustomed to being the anchors of growth, so it's a bit more difficult to push growth towards their downtown.

As it is, Huntsville's growth hasn't gonna so far as to completely restrict at least some of it from occurring in downtown.

[HSVTiger]

pushing a boulder uphill, maybe we have almost reached the top. Wonder what delay adont can come up with? Probably none this time but a cemetary or Indian artifacts are always good.

Construction of the much anticipated interchange at Interstate 565 and County Line Road could be just days from starting.

The Madison City Council approved payment of $1,723,408.89 on Monday, which represents the full amount of matching funds the city owes to the Alabama Department of Transportation.

"So that work should be happening very soon," said District 1 Councilman Tim Holcombe. "As soon as they get our check in hand, work should begin."

[stewdog1]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

pushing a boulder uphill, maybe we have almost reached the top. Wonder what delay adont can come up with? Probably none this time but a cemetary or Indian artifacts are always good.

Construction of the much anticipated interchange at Interstate 565 and County Line Road could be just days from starting.

The Madison City Council approved payment of $1,723,408.89 on Monday, which represents the full amount of matching funds the city owes to the Alabama Department of Transportation.

"So that work should be happening very soon," said District 1 Councilman Tim Holcombe. "As soon as they get our check in hand, work should begin."

Good news! Money changing hands is always a good thing. I still don't trust ALDONT, but we'll see.

[David1502]

While there has been a lot of discussion on this forum about a hoped for downtown baseball stadium as well as aspirations for a high rise to be built in the downtown area, the actual construction projects which are taking place have received little conversation.

1. The County Line Rd. interchange has been discussed, however, we can't overlook that there was a major development planned at this interchange, before the 2008 economic crash, and some major project is likely to be built here as it is an ideal location in the growth corridor of the Huntsville area. The Huntsville Planning Commission has announced the zoning for the over 5,000 acres the City has annexed in Limestone County just west of County Line Rd. so significant development will be taking place in that area.

2. Possible Zeirdt Rd. interchange in the works? The Huntsville Times reports that Dale Strong has spoken with Federal officials about getting $20 million in funding to build an interchange at Zeirdt Rd. and I-565. http://blog.al.com/breaking/2013/10/commission_chairman_dale_stron.html

With the widening of Zeirdt Rd. (which has crews on site now) and the Kellner Rd. project to begin soon through the Breland land where in 2006 DeBartolo Development announced plans for a $500 million mixed use project, this land is being prepped for something big - the County wouldn't have spent scare road resources if something weren't in the works and Strong indicates in the article he expects significant sales tax revenue for Madison County from development of this land.

Zeirdt Rd. is central to a lot of the Huntsville - Decatur area and an interchange there would allow easy access and a less than 10 minute drive to Huntsville's downtown and probably about a 15 minute drive to downtown Decatur, so it is easy to see how a major retail center could be built here. - When Belk was in discussion with the City of Huntsville over building their Bridge Street store, they indicated that they were looking also at a location along I-565 which led to speculation that the Zeirdt Rd. property wa where they were looking to build. Other retailers will find it attractive, too.

3. The widening of Jeff Rd. from just south of Capshaw Rd. (HSV City limits) to Douglas Rd. will accelerate the transformation of the Monrovia area from a semi-rural suburban area to a totally developed suburb. A five lane Jeff Rd. will ease the commute and the new Monrovia High School (funding is approved) will make this area more attractive for residential development. Another factor contributing to the nature of development in Monrovia is the Harvest-Monrovia Water Authority now requires all new subdivisions of 15 lots or more to be on a sewer line - This will lead to higher density neighborhoods as it will make economic sense for developers to put more and smaller lots on the land to get a higher return. When the homes were on septic tanks, they had to have bigger lots.

4. The widening of Winchester Rd. to Bell Factory Rd. will also lead to the further suburbanization of a semi-rural area of Madison County. While this area doesn't have the retail which the Madison- Monrovia are has, it does have pretty quick access to I-565 and is adjacent to the Chase Industrial Park. If the Harris Hill development at Moores Mill @ 72 were built, this area would definitely see more construction of housing.

The former "outer reaches" of the Huntsville - Madison County are now seeing an acceleration in their transformation from former farm land to fully developed suburbs.

[HSVTiger]

This is basically the Greenbrier area of west Huntsville

More than 5,700 acres of rural farmland in southeast Limestone County is being zoned to make sure it develops in an orderly fashion.

On Wednesday, a Huntsville planning subcommittee OK'd Sasaki Associates' zoning recommendations for a huge area roughly bordered by U.S. 72 to the north, Interstate 565 to the south, Mooresville Road to the west and Segers Road to the east.

The land, including a potential 1,500-acre TVA Megasite off Powell Road, has been annexed into the Huntsville city limits over the past few years.

The city hired Boston-based Sasaki Associates in 2011 to develop a master plan for the area.

This is related and was reported last year:

"The rolling cotton fields of southeast Limestone County will soon be parted by a new limited-access highway similar to Research Park Boulevard.
On Thursday night, the Huntsville City Council hired two engineering firms to begin designing Greenbrier Parkway on the city's western fringe. The 6 1/2-mile highway will start out following Greenbrier Road near Interstate 565 and then veer northwest along the edge of a proposed TVA Megasite. It will connect with Huntsville Browns Ferry Road just east of the Athens city limits."
HSV Times

[Tourian]

Interesting how Madison is getting boxed in like that by strategic annexation s by Huntsville. Is the same parcel of land that the Madison was complaining about that used ti be Madison but was deannexed out from under then and out into Huntsville? Sounds like a very rosy neighbor like relationship brewing between those two

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by Tourian

Interesting how Madison is getting boxed in like that by strategic annexation s by Huntsville. Is the same parcel of land that the Madison was complaining about that used ti be Madison but was deannexed out from under then and out into Huntsville? Sounds like a very rosy neighbor like relationship brewing between those two

no, this is a huge area of land. Madison has been boxed in for a good while now.
They are extending Kellner road (south of I-565) to Zierdt and this will open up a very large area of prime development potential. With the push for a new interchange at I-565/Zierdt(aldont will be the biggest obstacle) look for some big plans in this area. A large mall was planned years ago by the Debartolo group(former owner of the San Francisco 49ers).As David1502 pointed out very well above.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by Tourian

Interesting how Madison is getting boxed in like that by strategic annexation s by Huntsville. Is the same parcel of land that the Madison was complaining about that used ti be Madison but was deannexed out from under then and out into Huntsville? Sounds like a very rosy neighbor like relationship brewing between those two

The de-annexation never happened. The owner of the land, residential developer Louis Breland, attempted to take the land out of the City of Madison with the intention of having it immediately annexed by Huntsville. He attempted to do this through the Alabama Senate with the assistance of then Democratic Majority Leader Lowell Barron. Breland thought that because Huntsville is a lot bigger municipality, it could provide more infrastructure incentives for the development. However, the City of Madison found out about Breland's scheme and put a stop to it.

It is now ironic that the City of Madison is initiating improvements to the Breland property which will certainly make any development there more successful - Madison and Madison County petitioned the State of Alabama to build Kellner Road through Breland's land as part of the ALTRIP funding. I am sure that there are a lot of folks who have preferred that money be spent on widening Hughes Rd., Madison Pike (the City of Madison portion) or Balch Rd. Now, Dale Strong has taken things a step further by requesting funding for the interchange with I-565.

The City of Madison is wise not to hold a grudge against Breland and now to facilitate the development of the land. This land, as I have said in my earlier post, is ripe for development (located almost halfway between Huntsville and Decatur) and sure to generate significant property tax and sales tax revenue to the City of Madison.

The big question in my opinion is will the development be a major regional center like DeBartolo Development planned - including a Department store (there has been a long term effort to bring in a Macy's to the area), or will it be just another power center anchored by a Target (Wal-Mart is just a mile down Madison Blvd.), Home Depot, Kohl's, Marshall's, T.J. Max and of course the essential mattress store.

[stewdog1]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

no, this is a huge area of land. Madison has been boxed in for a good while now.
They are extending Kellner road (south of I-565) to Zierdt and this will open up a very large area of prime development potential. With the push for a new interchange at I-565/Zierdt(aldont will be the biggest obstacle) look for some big plans in this area. A large mall was planned years ago by the Debartolo group(former owner of the San Francisco 49ers).As David1502 pointed out very well above.

And as far as I know, that land at Zeirdt and 565 is still zoned for Madison City. *edit* Nevermind, David1502 answered just before me.

[Colin Giersberg]

The new road that is being built between US.72 and Huntsville Brown Ferry Road is being funded by Huntsville. What is the purpose of this road as there isn't much on US. 72 there and nothing at Huntsville Browns ferry Road? It is a two lane road that seems to serve nothing. I would think that Huntsville would fund this only if there is some payback for them, such as an industry or large retail development. Yet, I have heard nothing about what the road is for.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by Colin Giersberg

The new road that is being built between US.72 and Huntsville Brown Ferry Road is being funded by Huntsville. What is the purpose of this road as there isn't much on US. 72 there and nothing at Huntsville Browns ferry Road? It is a two lane road that seems to serve nothing. I would think that Huntsville would fund this only if there is some payback for them, such as an industry or large retail development. Yet, I have heard nothing about what the road is for.

It will serve the TVA megasite and the tremendous development that will come to this area.
Good thing they aren't waiting on aldont isn't it? An agency that has zero vision or a proactive thought process.

Another major road in the plans is a segment of the Memphis to Atlanta highway, which has been dormant for years, that would go east from I-65 and before turning southeast and connecting at I-565 east of Greenbrier Road BWAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[HSVTiger]

ANother study to pile in the warehouse but some interesting tidbits..

A commercial real estate firm hired by the city has pinpointed 21 "opportunity sites" across Huntsville that are ripe for new retail development.

During a Huntsville City Council work session on Thursday, a representative from The Shopping Center Group said the old Coca-Cola bottling plant on Clinton Avenue and the former Toys"R"Us on University Drive are the two most attractive retail sites in the downtown area.
ALdont letting the Bob Wade intersection slip away so it will be impossible to build a correct interchange
According to the company, north Huntsville's best retail tracts are the northeast corner of the Memorial Parkway-Sparkman Drive intersection and the corner of the Parkway and Bob Wade Lane; in south Huntsville, that honor goes to Country Club Apartments on Airport Road and Haysland Square shopping center.

The city school system plans to rebuild Grissom High School near Haysland Square.

Lacy Beasley, municipality consulting director at The Shopping Center Group's Birmingham office, told the council that many retailers are back in expansion mode following several years of economic uncertainly. Consumers across the U.S. are also feeling more confident, she said, pushing same-store sales 2.8 percent higher in August.

"People are getting out and shopping again," said Beasley.

But the prolonged recession and e-commerce took a heavy toll. Bookstores, video stores, mid-priced clothing and grocery stores, and office supply stories continue to struggle.

Other types of retailers are thriving: fitness and health spas, drug stores, thrift stores, fast food, sporting goods, organic and upscale grocers.

Beasley said Huntsville, as a regional employment center with high median income levels, is well-positioned to attract its fair share of new retail development.

Among the Shopping Center Group's findings:
Of the nearly $61 million a year spent on groceries in north Huntsville, people outside the study area account for more than half of all sales. The study area included Costco, Kroger on Oakwood Avenue, Wal-Mart Supercenter on Sparkman Drive and several smaller grocery stores.

With few car dealerships in the immediate vicinity, north Huntsville residents spend $14.2 million a year on automobiles purchased from businesses elsewhere.

âSouth Huntsville - defined as Governors Drive south to Green Cove Road - has the highest median household income of the three study areas, $54,474. North Huntsville was next at $33,382 followed by downtown, $20,419.

The old Toys"R"Us on University Drive is the city's top retail opportunity site. Don Beck with The Shopping Center Group told the council someone recently purchased that space and the adjoining Books-A-Million store. The vacant Coca-Cola bottling plant across from the Von Braun Center is another attractive property that would be perfect for a signature hotel and "fast casual" restaurant, the company said.



Mayor Tommy Battle said the city is in regular contact with mall owner CBL & Associates Properties about a possible redevelopment plan. The 29-year-old mall has some "functional obsolescence" and may need to be rebuilt "from the ground up," said Battle.READ THIS FORUM FOR IDEAS

"We're working with (CBL) to try to come up with a good plan that can be profitable for everyone involved," he said. "There are some very good possibilities sitting out there right now."

More good ideas and conclusions are on this forum than in any of these studies.

[HSVTiger]

This may impact the planned WalMart store in midtown

Announced at the retailer's annual analysts' meeting on Tuesday, come as the discounter aims to cut costs in the face of increasing pressure from expanding competition. That includes online retailers like Amazon.com as well as dollar stores, which have been rapidly adding locations and winning customers with low prices and easy access.

Wal-Mart expects to roll out the new distribution strategy in the first of three markets in March, though it declined to say where. It is testing some of the aspects of the plan in areas like Gentry, Ark., where it operates a Wal-Mart Express store, which is less than one-tenth the size of a typical supercenter.

The retailer operates more than 4,000 stores in the U.S., most of them supercenters. But it's seeing its smaller stores like Neighborhood Markets, which currently number about 300, and Walmart Express, which operate 20 locations, as vehicles for growth.

For this fiscal year and next combined, it plans to add about 300 more smaller format stores, particularly its Neighborhood Markets. Those formats, which offer such items as fresh produce, meat, household supplies and beauty products, average about 38,000 square feet. In contrast, it plans to add 240 more Supercenters in that time period. Wal-Mart supercenters, which carry food and general merchandise like clothing and home furnishings, average about 182,000 square feet.