The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 150

Chadillaccc · #**2981** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 1:08 PM**

That's a fantastic plan for Ottawa. A lot like Edmonton's ambitious North, Southeast, and West LRT lines currently on the books for the next couple years.

Here's a few photos of Edmonton's LRT. I took the system all the way to the southern terminus this time. What a comprehensive system it is! I had never been on a bus in Edmonton, and I wanted to surprise Colin by showing up at his game. To my surprise, the first bus I looked at after getting off at the terminus station was the bus I needed to take in order to get to the rugby park. The entire south line of Edmonton is quite impressive, with only about 4 at-grade crossings. There were no stops except at stations, and all of the stations are quite substantial.

Enterprise Square Subway Station

Health Sciences/Jubilee Station

Century Park Station

Photos by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

Acajack · #**2982** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 1:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

That's a fantastic plan for Ottawa. A lot like Edmonton's ambitious North, Southeast, and West LRT lines currently on the books for the next couple years.

Here's a few photos of Edmonton's LRT. I took the system all the way to the southern terminus this time. What a comprehensive system it is! I had never been on a bus in Edmonton, and I wanted to surprise Colin by showing up at his game. To my surprise, the first bus I looked at after getting off at the terminus station was the bus I needed to take in order to get to the rugby park. The entire south line of Edmonton is quite impressive, with only about 4 at-grade crossings. There were no stops except at stations, and all of the stations are quite substantial.

When I compare to similar-sized cities like Ottawa and others in North America, I am really impressed with the transit set-ups in Edmonton and Calgary. Especially considering they've had them for a few decades now. It's all very indicative of a forward-thinking mentality.

Good stuff!

Chadillaccc · #**2983** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 1:44 PM**

Ottawa's transitway is still lightyears ahead of what most/all American cities of similar size have. Canada just has a different mindset overall. Calgary and Edmonton's LRTs are excellent examples of functional metro speed and metro capacity LRT systems. With the future expansion of Edmonton's Capital Line (the current line), I would hope they will eventually consider grade-separating all of the intersections, as there are only a few on the system, in order to make it an uninterrupted metro line from North to South.

The_Architect · #**2984** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 1:58 PM**

Just to show everyone here what Toronto city council just did...

http://torontoist.com/2013/10/subway-vs-lrt-you-do-the-math-on-scarborough-transit/

Beedok · #**2985** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 3:23 PM**

I notice that the West end of the Confederation line is going to have two spurs, one to Baseline and one to Kanata.

vegeta_skyline · #**2986** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 6:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Toronto City Council just passed a 1.6% tax hike to pay for the Scarborough Subway. The LRT is now officially dead.

'bout damn time.

Innsertnamehere · #**2987** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 6:47 PM**

Maybe this will allow GO to speed up along the stretch once the old RT is ripped down? the tracks are straight as an arrow along that stretch but the train only does 80km/h or so. Plus there is a good 6.5 km stretch between stations from Kennedy to Agincourt.

The_Architect · #**2988** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 7:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vegeta_skyline

'bout damn time.

Seriously, it was about time the city threw out a cheaper option that serves more people and was fully funded for an unfunded subway through a low density area that will serve less...

Good thing we dodged that bullet.

Innsertnamehere · #**2989** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 7:43 PM**

The "LRT served more people" thing is utter crap. Ridership will be higher on the subway than on the LRT.

vegeta_skyline · #**2990** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 7:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Seriously, it was about time the city threw out a cheaper option that serves more people and was fully funded for an unfunded subway through a low density area that will serve less...

Good thing we dodged that bullet.

I was largely referring to the fact that finally everyone's on the same page and now maybe we can finally get on with building something which is better then the years of posturing and stagnation we've gone through.

But aside from that, I don't agree with the idea that the LRT plan would somehow serve more people than a subway. If your referring to people within walking distance then yes the LRT was better. But I don't think your going to have less ridership on the subway just because more people are going to have to take a bus to get there rather than walking. Not as long as there is no additional cost to transferring. And of course there's no need to transfer with the subway at Kennedy. Now is it worth the extra cost? Obviously no(although I personal prefer that), so I wouldn't argue with anyone saying it was the wrong decision. I just don't think it was the epic fiasco that some people are making it out to be.

niwell · #**2991** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 7:50 PM**

^Yeah at this point I don't care anymore. Just stop arguing.

The one silver lining is that a precedent has been set for transit-specific tax increases. The big drawback is that somehow Ford will manage to take all the credit for Subways, Subways, Subways!

Innsertnamehere · #**2992** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 8:14 PM**

I am pretty much with Vegeta. I didn't really care which one, they each have pros and cons. I'm just happy it is finally over.

nname · #**2993** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 9:23 PM**

I still don't get how both options can be that expensive in Toronto... The LRT cost more than $200M per km, while the subway cost more than $400M. That makes everything we build anywhere else in Canada seems like a bargain...

Innsertnamehere · #**2994** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 9:41 PM**

several reasons:

1. tear down costs of the existing RT are included (all stations would have been torn down and replaced, along with the yard, scrapping of the trains, and the removal of the tracks) I also think the elevated portion was supposed to be completely rebuilt, but I may be wrong.
2. The $1.8 original cost also included the Kennedy Station rebuild, which is also a portion of the Eglinton Line. the old SRT kennedy portion would be torn down, and 2 different underground platforms would be constructed for the Eglinton LRT and the Scarborough LRT. This was $400 million alone as you have to maintain operation of the subway station while you do this. It would also have included an underground transfer track from the SRT to Eglinton to allow for the transfer of trains.
3. The sheppard station was underground on the Scarborough LRT, as well as a largish bus terminal

Without the Kennedy rebuild, it was $1.48 billion or $139 million a km.

As for the subway..

1. EA costs are included, which is normally complete by the time projects get their traditional construction qoute.
2. SRT tear down in it's entirety are included
3. 2 large bus terminals at STC and Sheppard.
4. cost estimate is probably at the high end of things, as the process is so early.
5. Toronto subways typically cost around $350,000,000 a km anyways as the Toronto subway network is built to a much higher standard than other Canadian cities. (dual tunnel bore, 150m platforms, much larger trains, etc)

nname · #**2995** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 10:05 PM**

The $1.99B price tag in the article already excluded the Kennedy Station rebuilt but adjusted for inflation though. Otherwise the LRT option would've cost $2.4B, or $240M/km.

Aylmer · #**2996** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 10:34 PM**

Gosh, Ottawa's entire transportation system will cost $3B, and Toronto manages to fund a 3-station extension of one line for $2.5B faster than you can say 'swing seat'...

If, on top of that, it causes Ford to win a second term... Oh God...

J.OT13 · #**2997** Posted **Oct 9, 2013, 10:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok

I notice that the West end of the Confederation line is going to have two spurs, one to Baseline and one to Kanata.

It won't go all the way to Kanata; it will terminate at Bayshore, one of Ottawa-Gatineau's major malls at the edge of the inner-greenbelt (aka urban area, beyond the greenbelt, you're in suburban areas).

Anyway, the line does in fact split after Lincoln Fields; one line to Bayshore and the other to Baseline (Algonquin College). Currently, the busiest stretch on the Transitway is downtown with 10,000 phpd. The Confederation line has a max capacity of 24,000 phpd, so splitting the line once, or even twice (when the diesel O-Train is converted in 20 years or so), should not cause any capacity issues.

SteelTown · #**2998** Posted **Oct 10, 2013, 7:51 PM**

They are finally adding bus lanes in Hamilton

King St. transit-only lane to debut later this month: city

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/n...to-debut-later-this-month-city-1.1959098
CBC News Hamilton

The transit-only lane on King Street will start Oct. 22

The north lane of the downtown artery will be closed from Mary Street to New Street to all traffic except transit vehicles for the one-year pilot project.

City crews are working to install signage and paint new lane markings ahead of the changeover.

Unless there are delays, the lane will be operational by Oct. 22, the city said in a Thursday news release. The lane was supposed to be in place at the end of September, but was delayed.

The transit-only lane will bump parking on the north side of King Street East to the south side. Businesses will also have to rely on the south lane for loading.

Only buses, as well as emergency vehicles, will be able to drive in the lane. Taxi cabs and DARTS vans will be permitted to stop on it briefly to drop off and pick up passengers.

Other vehicles will be only permitted to cross the lane to make a turn or to enter into a driveway.

The city said fines will apply for drivers who violate the new rules.

Innsertnamehere · #**2999** Posted **Oct 10, 2013, 8:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname

The $1.99B price tag in the article already excluded the Kennedy Station rebuilt but adjusted for inflation though. Otherwise the LRT option would've cost $2.4B, or $240M/km.

That's inflated amounts. In terms that are measurably with every other transit project in the country (which don't take into account inflation) it is $1.4 billion.

Innsertnamehere · #**3000** Posted **Oct 10, 2013, 8:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Gosh, Ottawa's entire transportation system will cost $3B, and Toronto manages to fund a 3-station extension of one line for $2.5B faster than you can say 'swing seat'...

If, on top of that, it causes Ford to win a second term... Oh God...

It won't win him another term. By the sounds of it, Chow is the only other major candidate that will be running, and she will likely take most of the votes. Never mind the fact that not a single competent campaign manager is going to poke ford with a 10ft stick yet alone run a campaign for him. He will end up hiring some crappy campaign manager while Chow gets the entire professional team behind her and also has much greater support. Believe it or not, the Majority of people in the city don't live in Scarborough and even then not everyone in Scarborough likes the subway.