Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[GoTrans]

[QUOTE=lrt's friend;
The glaring weakness of this plan, not that I have seen all the details, is a fast connection between Baseline Station and Billings Bridge. I have said, that we need to move away from a completely downtown-centric rapid transit plan, if we really want to attack growing congestion away from downtown.[/QUOTE]

How about electrifying the O Train and using the rail vehicles on a Kanata to Tremblay or Hurdman ( using the transit way from Billings Bridge) on the railway right of way providing a grade separated service the whole way with relatively little infrastructure cost?

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The glaring weakness of this plan, not that I have seen all the details, is a fast connection between Baseline Station and Billings Bridge. I have said, that we need to move away from a completely downtown-centric rapid transit plan, if we really want to attack growing congestion away from downtown.

The city has been studying a busway corridor along Baseline: http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-consultations/baseline-road-transit-intensive-corridor

I guess we will find out later today when this might proceed.

[agl]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The glaring weakness of this plan, not that I have seen all the details, is a fast connection between Baseline Station and Billings Bridge. I have said, that we need to move away from a completely downtown-centric rapid transit plan, if we really want to attack growing congestion away from downtown.

Was there not plans in the previous TMP for bus lanes on Baseline? Perhaps that will be included as part of the $500 million dollar budget for bus specific transit projects announced this morning.

[agl]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

The city has been studying a busway corridor along Baseline: http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-consultations/baseline-road-transit-intensive-corridor

I guess we will find out later today when this might proceed.

beat me to it....

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Regarding load balancing, the ultimate solution is to eventually convert the O-Train to electric LRT and run it down Albert and Slater as originally planned. This eliminates an unwanted transfer and the balancing issue. In the short-term, you continue to run all the buses up the SE Transitway to Hurdman. Some people who transfer at South Keys already will use the O-Train but for those who have had direct service (Route 97, 98, 40, 41, 43, 87) they should go to Hurdman, otherwise, we are adding two transfers to their trip. This will encourage a better split of passengers from the south end using the east and west portal to travel downtown.

As far as the ultimate use of the SE Transitway, why would we ever close a rapid transit route? Not only does this provide part of a more southerly cross-town route, it also connects the south end to the east end. Making people transfer even more times, when they are not going downtown, is asking them to use a car. We need more cross connections, not less.

The glaring weakness of this plan, not that I have seen all the details, is a fast connection between Baseline Station and Billings Bridge. I have said, that we need to move away from a completely downtown-centric rapid transit plan, if we really want to attack growing congestion away from downtown.

On-street surface LRT in mixed traffic is a recipe for disaster. Unless Albert and/or Slater were completely closed to vehicle traffic (which they would fight tooth and nail with), it creates delays and a dangerous situation prone to accidents.

The SE Transitway south of Heron should be closed in the ultimate scenario because it would be redundant (in fact, the Bank Street line could use it from Walkley southward, either in parallel or concurrent with the O-Train). Those going to Confederation Heights from the south would use the O-Train, while those going to Billings Bridge and downtown would use the Bank Street subway (using the most direct route possible). North of Heron would remain a BRT corridor in the ultimate plan.

Yes, it adds a transfer for some going between Pleasant Park and Lycee Claudel from the south (transfers that would otherwise be made at Hurdman could also be made downtown or at Bayview, depending on ultimate destination), but ridership at those four intermediate stations is fairly low in comparison.

[cr872190]

They have updated www.ottawalightrail.ca. Has quite a bit of new information and updates on construction. About time though.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

All other redevelopments (Carling, CFB Rockliffe, Vanier) should be put on hold IMO until beyond 2023.

Perhaps, but something has to be done to improve the atrocious transit situation in the urban east end before then, especially as redevelopment pressures continue to build along Rideau-Montreal and Beechwood.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Perhaps, but something has to be done to improve the atrocious transit situation in the urban east end before then, especially as redevelopment pressures continue to build along Rideau-Montreal and Beechwood.

Bus only lanes during rush hour is the best mid term solution possible.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Bus only lanes during rush hour is the best mid term solution possible.

Bite the bullet and put LRT in right from the beginning rather than wasting money on interim measures makes the most sense. Bus only lanes will make it worse for automobile commuters unless you are going build another lane and incur more expense and promote more travel by automobile.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I also wonder how lines will work: Will it be Suburb-Downtown or Suburb-Suburb? (eg: Orleans-Bayshore or Orleans-Tunney's). One offers more simplicity, bug the other offers more efficiency (fewer counter-current trains, presumably with fewer people on-board).

The trains would have to run in both directions on a schedule because a) there is not enough room at the terminating stations to store the extra trains, b) there is not enough time to couple trains together to run back to the origin c) you have the same cost, excluding the cost of coupling and uncoupling to balance the equipment and operators so they are ready for the next run. The only modification I can see to this is to have short turns which would negate the need for storing trains for as long a time period before they return to their origin but would probably still require some storage of trains waiting for their next departure.

[JM1]

I think the lack of a Montreal LRT (through the CFB Rockcliffe to Blair or to 417/Montreal) will hinder east end development.

I think we need it.

But maybe it just isn't affordable.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Bus only lanes during rush hour is the best mid term solution possible.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Bus only lanes during rush hour is the best mid term solution possible.

Transit along this corridor doesn't only suck during rush hour. OC Transpo steadfastly refuses to believe it, but there are huge problems with overcrowding and schedule adherence almost all day and almost all week.

In a real city, this urban corridor would be a higher-priority candidate for urban transit. In Ottawa, we're spending all the political and financial capital keeping as many people in as many of the suburbs as possible placated. It's ass-backwards, and contrary to the urban aspirations that exist in pretty words on paper in all the planning documents, but nowhere else. Not in results, not in actions, not in the public mindset.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by JM1

I think the lack of a Montreal LRT (through the CFB Rockcliffe to Blair or to 417/Montreal) will hinder east end development.

I think we need it.

But maybe it just isn't affordable.

I think all those bloody road widenings aren't affordable.

Would it kill the city to shift the balance, even by 1 or 2 percent, away from roads and towards public transit? Wouldn't that help in the supposed goal of reining in suburban sprawl, a policy in which Ottawa is all talk, no cock walk?

What's that definition of insanity again?

Make no mistake about it, this suburbs-first and wider-roads transportation plan will result in even more suburban sprawl, and even more crappy monocultural suburbs with main drags, big box-stores, and little-box houses.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Bus only lanes during rush hour is the best mid term solution possible.

Also apparently the only long-term solution: there will be nothing else for this part of town this century.

But the suburbs get their LRT. And their six- and eight-lane roads.

[acottawa]

I haven't seen any details on how the cost estimate was arrived at, but I expect 2.5B is another lowball (to go with many other lowball estimates from city staff), especially considering that a considerable chunk will have to be built from scratch (places where busses currently use the Queensway) and a considerable portion of the Western portion will have to be buried. But even if it isn't a lowball, I can't imagine the federal and provincial governments coughing up 1/3 more than they just coughed up for the Confederation line, while the line is still under construction and even if they did, they city would have to borrow almost a billion dollars for its share. It's a good re-election stunt I guess.

[JM1]

You have a good point there. Road widening to promote the growth of distant suburbs is throwing good money after bad -- we paid to build out the infrastructure for distant suburbs and now we will pay to maintain it, expand it, and develop the connections so that they can get into the city to work.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I think all those bloody road widenings aren't affordable.

Would it kill the city to shift the balance, even by 1 or 2 percent, away from roads and towards public transit? Wouldn't that help in the supposed goal of reining in suburban sprawl, a policy in which Ottawa is all talk, no cock walk?

What's that definition of insanity again?

Make no mistake about it, this suburbs-first and wider-roads transportation plan will result in even more suburban sprawl, and even more crappy monocultural suburbs with main drags, big box-stores, and little-box houses.

[McC]

Jim Watson is a lot of things, but full of empty promises doesn't seem to be one of them, from my observation.

[J.OT13]

Ottawa should never build anything less than underground transit for Montreal/Rideau and if we don't have money for this now, bus lanes is the only option available.

[McC]

Perfect: Enemy of The Good.

[McC]

From the international Peer Review Panel back in the dark ages of 2008:

The Carling Avenue and Rideau Street/Montreal Road corridor (sic) would be appropriate for streetcar development, to attract further development in the central portion of Ottawa south and east of downtown. A BRT line on Baseline Street connecting Baseline with Hurdman would also be appropriate. Both the Carling, Rideau/Montreal and Baseline corridors should have segregated transit running way with at-grade operation and signal priority at intersections.

Question 8: Appropriateness of Proposed Facility Types

Response:
As mentioned previously, streetcar would be most appropriate for the Carling-Montreal corridor, and BRT for the Baseline corridor, with both ideally operating in an at-grade median transitway with signal priority at intersections.

http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/trc/2008/04-16/ACS2008-PTE-PLA-0016

Other (similarly ignored) gems from that report include advice on converting the Transitway to rail with minimal operational disruption...