Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm glad they opted against calling them both uOttawa. It would have been confusing for some. "He said uOttawa!?", "ya uOttawa", "Shit! Which uOttawa!?"

They should have gone with a station under Laurier, which they could have called "Laurier".

[Kibb]

wow...

19 new stations, and 35km of new LRT line (admitedly some of that will be through greenbelt), LRT to Orleans, Baseline and Bayshore, extension of o-train to Bowesville. All in the same phase immediately after completion of Phase 1, hoping to finish by 2022.

[gjhall]

This is very exciting, and now brings up so many interesting questions to ponder, such as:
What to do with the Transitway between Walkley and Hurdman, both in the short and long term...

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by gjhall

This is very exciting, and now brings up so many interesting questions to ponder, such as:
What to do with the Transitway between Walkley and Hurdman, both in the short and long term...

What do you mean what to do with it?

The SE Transitway from Heron-Hurdman provides a key crosstown connection along with Baseline/Heron for route 118.

And the ridership on the connection between South Keys and Billings Bridge is well established.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

What do you mean what to do with it?

The SE Transitway from Heron-Hurdman provides a key crosstown connection along with Baseline/Heron for route 118.

And the ridership on the connection between South Keys and Billings Bridge is well established.

Yes, no question, but it also serves as the main N-S busway for Riverside South, Hunt Club, etc, all of which will likely end with the O-Train upgraded. Will they run a 97 in this limited area? Will it be useful as part of a larger network in Stage 3? Right now it's looking like a bit of a leftover scrap ... I used to use this every day when I was a south end commuter.

[kevinbottawa]

LRT to TRIM Road would've been nice. There's a lot of empty land to be developed out there. I imagine the Place d'Orleans parking lot will be even more congested. It's less convenient to park at Trim and take the bus to Place d'Orleans to get a train. Still, it's a great plan. Very exciting.

[kevinbottawa]

So I guess this means the Carling streetcar isn't happening.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

So I guess this means the Carling streetcar isn't happening.

What led you to that conclusion?

[Dado]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Yes, no question, but it also serves as the main N-S busway for Riverside South, Hunt Club, etc, all of which will likely end with the O-Train upgraded. Will they run a 97 in this limited area? Will it be useful as part of a larger network in Stage 3? Right now it's looking like a bit of a leftover scrap ... I used to use this every day when I was a south end commuter.

They've also still got themselves a downtown capacity imbalance issue that has [apparently] yet to be sorted out: if most south end transit traffic (less that from Alta Vista) is funnelled into the west portal of the downtown tunnel via the O-Train line, then there will be far more morning eastbound trains through the tunnel required than westbound trains, whereas if south end transit riders are brought to the east portal via the SE Twy and Hurdman, that imbalance largely, though not completely, cancels out.

It may be that they are deciding to hold off on O-Train conversion precisely because they haven't yet figured out what to do about this problem, a problem they've made worse by designing-out a light rail connection option along the SE Twy at Hurdman. So long as O-Train usage is limited to those from Riverside South and the Greenboro/South Keys area, this imbalance problem can be kicked down the road for awhile until population growth in Riverside South forces the issue.

And note that this imbalance exists before we even begin discussing dealing with transit riders from Gatineau.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by Dado

They've also still got themselves a downtown capacity imbalance issue that has [apparently] yet to be sorted out: if most south end transit traffic (less that from Alta Vista) is funnelled into the west portal of the downtown tunnel via the O-Train line, then there will be far more morning eastbound trains through the tunnel required than westbound trains, whereas if south end transit riders are brought to the east portal via the SE Twy and Hurdman, that imbalance largely, though not completely, cancels out.

It may be that they are deciding to hold off on O-Train conversion precisely because they haven't yet figured out what to do about this problem, a problem they've made worse by designing-out a light rail connection option along the SE Twy at Hurdman. So long as O-Train usage is limited to those from Riverside South and the Greenboro/South Keys area, this imbalance problem can be kicked down the road for awhile until population growth in Riverside South forces the issue.

And note that this imbalance exists before we even begin discussing dealing with transit riders from Gatineau.

This is precisely the discussion I was looking to have. I'm not sure if that's totally true in terms of load imbalance, given that Orleans already has much higher ridership, and will assumedly have even higher ridership once LRT goes right into their community, unlike all the others outside the Greenbelt.

The other issue is what do with the ridership in the are between Walkley and Hurdman itself. There wasn't a lot of TOD around the Transitway, but this section has quite a bit, especially at Lycee and Smyth. A bus ride from Smyth to Hudrman isn't exactly an ordeal, but with more users further south likely choosing the O-Train rather than getting on the LRT at Hurdman, they will probably have declining service frequency, unless the City has the foresight to have an exclusive route that does the Hurdman-Lycee-Smyth-Riverside-Pleasant Park-Billings Bridge-Walkley route back and forth. That could be a good stop-gap measure.

The bigger question I'm pondering is how can this segment be re-used as part of a larger future network. I know we just got news of Stage 2 today, but it's more interesting to think about what comes next than pick at the current plan. I guess we will learn more this afternoon.

It's a good day for this city.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by gjhall

The other issue is what do with the ridership in the are between Walkley and Hurdman itself. There wasn't a lot of TOD around the Transitway, but this section has quite a bit, especially at Lycee and Smyth. A bus ride from Smyth to Hudrman isn't exactly an ordeal, but with more users further south likely choosing the O-Train rather than getting on the LRT at Hurdman, they will probably have declining service frequency, unless the City has the foresight to have an exclusive route that does the Hurdman-Lycee-Smyth-Riverside-Pleasant Park-Billings Bridge-Walkley route back and forth. That could be a good stop-gap measure.

I think that even when the O-Train extension is implemented, there will still be a route between Hurdman and the Airport (similar to today's 97), and likely between Hurdman and Hawthorne (similar to today's 98).

I don't think anyone is talking about removing any portion of the SE Transitway.

[Aylmer]

I also wonder how lines will work: Will it be Suburb-Downtown or Suburb-Suburb? (eg: Orleans-Bayshore or Orleans-Tunney's). One offers more simplicity, bug the other offers more efficiency (fewer counter-current trains, presumably with fewer people on-board).

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

What led you to that conclusion?

Well, he didn't mention it and I figured they wouldn't have much more money to play with after spending $2.5 billion on this plan.

[McC]

Originally Posted by gjhall

They will probably have declining service frequency, unless the City has the foresight to have an exclusive route that does the Hurdman-Lycee-Smyth-Riverside-Pleasant Park-Billings Bridge-Walkley route back and forth. That could be a good stop-gap measure.

The bigger question I'm pondering is how can this segment be re-used as part of a larger future network.

I'd give that route a 90-something number, and keep running it north of Hurdman up the Vanier Parkway (with some level of transit priority), frequent, regular service with a limited number of stops. But where to terminate it? It could carry on to Galleries de Hull or loop around to Rideau Centre (either way via St Patrick-KingEd) could be options. Or it could use St-Patrick/Murray, Alexandra and run to somewhere in old Hull... like my O-Train terminus at Taché-Terrasses!

[J.OT13]

S/E Transitway is fine as is, although I would consider selling parts of it for redevelopment between South Keys and Walkley.

Carling streetcar would be nice to have, but not necessary. Other than the Civic and Royal Ottawa, it would only serve strip malls and minor shopping centres. And yes, sure it has potential for redevelopment, but so does everything between Lees and Place D'Orleans, LeBreton Flats/Bayview, Tunney's and Gladstone. We have plenty of urban land to redevelop along the 2023 rapid transit network. All other redevelopments (Carling, CFB Rockliffe, Vanier) should be put on hold IMO until beyond 2023.

Anyway, with this plan we can finally catch up to the other big boys!

Question, is the Confederation Line and current O-Train not included in the 35 km?

[McC]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Question, is the Confederation Line and current O-Train not included in the 35 km?

no, I think that's all new/incremental track; although my very rough measurements are closer to 30km ;-)

[DarkArconio]

This is very exciting indeed. With transitways and busways planned throughout the suburbs, I think for stage 3 a crosstown tram would be most appropriate along carling, the queen elizabeth parkway, and rideau/montreal. If we could get that done by 2031, then no major urban areas in Ottawa will be unserved by high quality, high speed transit! But I suppose that's meat for the 2018 TMP to chew on.

[eternallyme]

Regarding the Southeast Transitway? I think it will go like this:

* Medium term (i.e. through Phase 2 at least):

** No change, remain as a distinct Transitway.
** Ridership is well established from Billings Bridge to South Keys, while from Heron northward also serves east-west crosstown travel.

* Long term (i.e. after a Bank Street subway, probably Phase 4):

** Removal of the section south of Heron Road.
** Billings Bridge would have direct north-south service beneath Bank Street. That would be the primary route to downtown.
** New patterns could be established south of there (i.e. either the existing O-Train or moving the Bank Street line to the existing Transitway at Walkley Road) and ridership is quite low in the stations between Pleasant Park and Lycee Claudel.
** The segment from Heron to Hurdman would remain BRT as a Transitway, primarily serving east-west traffic on a potential Baseline Road BRT corridor.

[lrt's friend]

Regarding load balancing, the ultimate solution is to eventually convert the O-Train to electric LRT and run it down Albert and Slater as originally planned. This eliminates an unwanted transfer and the balancing issue. In the short-term, you continue to run all the buses up the SE Transitway to Hurdman. Some people who transfer at South Keys already will use the O-Train but for those who have had direct service (Route 97, 98, 40, 41, 43, 87) they should go to Hurdman, otherwise, we are adding two transfers to their trip. This will encourage a better split of passengers from the south end using the east and west portal to travel downtown.

As far as the ultimate use of the SE Transitway, why would we ever close a rapid transit route? Not only does this provide part of a more southerly cross-town route, it also connects the south end to the east end. Making people transfer even more times, when they are not going downtown, is asking them to use a car. We need more cross connections, not less.

The glaring weakness of this plan, not that I have seen all the details, is a fast connection between Baseline Station and Billings Bridge. I have said, that we need to move away from a completely downtown-centric rapid transit plan, if we really want to attack growing congestion away from downtown.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Dado

They've also still got themselves a downtown capacity imbalance issue that has [apparently] yet to be sorted out: if most south end transit traffic (less that from Alta Vista) is funnelled into the west portal of the downtown tunnel via the O-Train line, then there will be far more morning eastbound trains through the tunnel required than westbound trains, whereas if south end transit riders are brought to the east portal via the SE Twy and Hurdman, that imbalance largely, though not completely, cancels out.
.

Don't forget that the LRT should be more reliable than the bus so more people from the east will take the LRT to Algonquin, the new DND @ Nortel and Kanata in addition to Tunny's and what ever location will provide transfers to Federal buildings in Gatineau. Personally I don't think the imbalance will be as bad as everyone thinks. While the trains may be crowded, they might be crowded in both directions. Certainly the volume of people transferring at Bayview will not approach the numbers at Bloor and Younge on the TTC. I think leaving the option, which still exists of extending the O Train to Gatineau is worth keeping. I think there will be an option of short turning trains between Tremblay and St Laurent as part of the entrance to the maintenance yard if needed.