Claridge Icon [505 Preston St] | 143m | 45 fl | Completed

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by teej1984

As one of those young professionals with a pretty well paying job, I agree, the cost is just out of my league. Renting will suffice... guess the "dream" of not living in a suburb isn't really possible for the avg non-owner.

I am not sure how anyone in Ottawa with a "well paying job" who has made the effort to save a little can feel priced out of the market. You can still find 1 bedrooms (new builds in the Market) for low $200s.

[Boxster]

Its funny that past generations were able to do so.

Most of us managed 1 or 2 jobs during the year while at University and worked full time in the summer. Minimum wage was also $2.10/hour.

Originally Posted by defishel

Just because tuition is higher and minimum wage is lower in the States doesn't mean that we have it good; just that we have it better.

Tuition is $7,500 for Ontario students, with rent being $800+ per month ($9,600+) depending on where you're living and how you're living (do you have many roommates or a significant other to share a small place with?) You have to factor in whether we're paying utilities and internet, paying for transportation, we have groceries. We also have to pay textbooks, school supplies, and every so often a computer.

On average, you'll see students spending nearly $20,000 per year to pay for all of this, and yet minimum wage working 20 hours a week may only get you half of that.

On average, you'll find we may finish an undergrad with about $25,000 in debt, but with fewer well-being jobs available, it takes a while to pay this off and have a down payment for condos.

Speaking as a student who worked really hard, it's not because we're irresponsible with our money or partying a lot. It's because things are really expensive now, and we can't afford everything.

[S-Man]

This thread is digressing rapidly...

Everyone I know who are university graduates with good/ok paying jobs can't afford to buy houses or condos therefore EVERYONE is still renting...

Myself and all of my friends living in Ottawa (all with post-secondary) are in the same boat. It is not an isolated thing.

In Ottawa condo-speak, 'young, urban professional' really means generously-paid government worker living close to their job.

So yes, if you're 28 and making $50-70K, it's condo heaven for you. If you're young and fall under the average Canadian income of $46K (which heavily includes civil servants with 20 years under their belt), then you're out of luck.

I'm not about to get snarky referring to 'low earners' making $35-45K, nor am I going to lump students into the same boat (though there are a lot of annoying ones). I might have made it out of uni without debt, but it was only because I worked like a dog and gave up three years of my life (evenings, weekends, nights working, after a full course load).

Let's face it - the cost of living and the amount of taxes and fees factored into the cost of products/services is higher than ever. Money doesn't go as far - less of it is left over for upgrading your lifestyle. If someone can prove me wrong, please be my guest.

[JackBauer24]

Being a Gen Yer myself, I find in general most of my generation wants instant gratification. They want to cool, hip downtown condo now. They want to take the fun trips down in the sand and sun now. They want the nice car now. But they don't have the financial means to afford it. Far too often I'll see friends of mine save up for a 2 week vacation in Cuba for a few grand once or twice a year, rather than forfeiting 1 or 2 years of vacation and saving up for something that will actually build your net worth. When I lived in the townhouse I bought right out of university, even though my monthly costs were low, I didn't take that extra cash and buy a new wardrobe or a new TV, I kept paying down my mortgage as though my monthly costs were $1200/month. I'm about 10 years removed from that first purchase, and because of my frugal spending and choice to invest in a house, I can now take a nice holiday once or twice a year, I have bought that nice downtown condo. But it took a few years of sacrificing some of my "wants" to get there.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I am not sure how anyone in Ottawa with a "well paying job" who has made the effort to save a little can feel priced out of the market. You can still find 1 bedrooms (new builds in the Market) for low $200s.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by S-Man

This thread is digressing rapidly...

Well since the Icon is no longer, it's not like this thread would be used to any sales or construction updates.

[S-Man]

Its funny that past generations were able to do so.

A man stands on a Toronto street, looking at a listed property.

The sign reads "For sale - $868,999"

The man turns to his son and says, "Why aren't you buying property like this? You have a good job. I had a house when I was your age"

The son replies, "I know, dad, but this is YOUR house, and you bought it for $479,000 eight years ago."

Anyway- the cost of living (property, tuition, insurance, automobiles, gas, etc) is not tied to inflation or income levels.

Tuition has risen 6.2% annually since 1990. You managed it back then, you say? Well, all things not being equal, it stinks to neglect this fact when you act condescending to a current student.

http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/20...ising-faster-than-incomes-and-inflation/

[McC]

Originally Posted by Boxster

Its funny that past generations were able to do so.

Most of us managed 1 or 2 jobs during the year while at University and worked full time in the summer. Minimum wage was also $2.10/hour.

Some facts to go with your tales of stoic resilience vs. the lazy kids today:

Minimum wage in Ontario was in that range for a few months back in 1975

On 1 January 1975, the Employment Standards Advisory Board issued a new Minimum Wage Order and the rates are as follows: $2.05 per hour for all persons eighteen years of age and over; and $1.80 per hour for all persons under eighteen years of age.

On 1 October 1975, the Employment Standards Advisory Board issued a new Minimum Wage Order and the rates are as follows: $2.30 per hour for all persons eighteen years of age and over; and $2.00 per hour for all persons under eighteen years of age.
http://www.gov.pe.ca/labour/index.php3?number=1022458&lang=E

According to this News Release, average tuition in Ontario in 1975 was $610/year. (http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/76995/wages-higher-and-tuition-fees-lower-when-mcguinty-studied)

Minimum wage is now $10.25 (http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/minwage.php) an increase of nearly 4.5x over those 40 years, while average tuition (and ancillary fees, which used to be included in tuition) in Ontario is now $6900 (http://www.ontariocolleges.ca/ontcol/home/confirm/money-matters/tuition-fees.html) an increase of nearly 11.5x. But do go on.

[Rob64]

Has it been confirmed that this project is dead?

[S-Man]

Being a Gen Yer myself, I find in general most of my generation wants instant gratification. They want to cool, hip downtown condo now. They want to take the fun trips down in the sand and sun now. They want the nice car now. But they don't have the financial means to afford it. Far too often I'll see friends of mine save up for a 2 week vacation in Cuba for a few grand once or twice a year, rather than forfeiting 1 or 2 years of vacation and saving up for something that will actually build your net worth.

They demand TWO two-week tropical vacations each year? Yowzers....

Anyway, I worked with such people once, and it drove me to drink. Their impatience and need for instant gratification/praise made my job twice as hard, and my work load twice as big.

Others of the same age group (23-27) were some of the hardest working people I knew, so it comes down to the individual.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by Rob64

Has it been confirmed that this project is dead?

Not from the Vendor themselves, but I do know someone very closely involved in this project - according to them, it's dead. I'm sure Claridge will keep the land and relaunch eventually, or maybe do an Edge/Bowery thing and try again (hopefully without that annoying radio commercial).

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by S-Man

They demand TWO two-week tropical vacations each year? Yowzers....

Anyway, I worked with such people once, and it drove me to drink. Their impatience and need for instant gratification/praise made my job twice as hard, and my work load twice as big.

Others of the same age group (23-27) were some of the hardest working people I knew, so it comes down to the individual.

They didn't DEMAND two holidays/year, but they saved up for them. And aside from a few nice photos and some fond memories, it only put them further in debt.

But like I said, in general that's how a lot of Gen Yers think, but there are definitely exceptions. Some hard working, diligent exceptions.

[S-Man]

According to this News Release, average tuition in Ontario in 1975 was $610/year. (http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/7699...guinty-studied)

Minimum wage is now $10.25 (http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/...de/minwage.php) an increase of nearly 4.5x over those 40 years, while average tuition (and ancilliary fees, which used to be included) in Ontario is now $6900 (http://www.ontariocolleges.ca/ontcol...tion-fees.html) an increase of nearly 11.5x. But do go on.

Whaaaat? Next you'll be telling me I can't pick up a brand new Dodge for $9,000, all in, with $35/month insurance!

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by jay2018

Would you take less min wage if it meant College etc was cheaper?

How much cheaper?

Not really, as it wouldn't make much of a difference. I still have debt in the end, and unless I can get a good job that earns more than what I was earning at minimum wage, that could help pay down my debt, it really would do very little for me.

[McC]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

in general that's how a lot of Gen Yers think, but there are definitely exceptions. Some hard working, diligent exceptions.

That was how a lot of my gen-X cohort thought, too; and how many of my parents' fellow baby boomers went bankrupt in the eighties on their starter castles and flash cars and trips south. I think you're talking about a universal phenomenon, at least for all post-war generations.

I highly recommend this article from the Atlantic a while back:
Every Every Every Generation Has Been the Me Me Me Generation http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/05/me-generation-time/65054/

Money quote:

Basically, it's not that people born after 1980 are narcissists, it's that young people are narcissists, and they get over themselves as they get older. It's like doing a study of toddlers and declaring those born since 2010 are Generation Sociopath: Kids These Days Will Pull Your Hair, Pee On Walls, Throw Full Bowls of Cereal Without Even Thinking of the Consequences.

As the parent of a monstertoddler: Preach!

[S-Man]

That baby comparison is funny!

Anyway, to make a generational cost comparison, you have to factor in insurance premiums, hydro rates, gas, and all the expenses that go on in the periphery of one's living arrangement.

I'm willing to bet that, even when inflation is factored in, these things are higher than they were in the early 70s, say. Also, you have expenses that never existed before - global adjustment and debt retirement charges on your hydro bill, Drive Clean testing for your car (if you drive, and most do at some point in their young lives), eco fees on products/services - the list goes on.

Because of the cost of tuition and the cost of living, it's much harder to 'leap into the middle class' these days.

[OTSkyline]

It's funny how some people are quick to judge and call Gen Y "lazy" or "spoiled" right off the bat...

I, for once, have worked hard during high school and during university and am glad to say I will be graduating debt free! But that still doesn't mean I can afford to buy my first place yet...

I'm not asking for luxury or a penthouse, I just want a reasonably nice place to live and call my own. A townhouse in Orleans = expensive, condo in downtown = expensive, house in kanata = expensive. There's not many options.

What frustrates me even more is that I have been living with several roomates and have spent over $50,000 in rent in the past 4 years with nothing to show for. Without being able to buy myself a first place and start building equity I will be forced to continue to rent for the next few years. And I still have a full time job with benefits and $2- dollars/hour but its still not enough when a mortgage comes to $1200/month + 325 fees, taxes, heating, hydro, TV, cable etc...

[cr872190]

Considering 2 units have closed in the last 48 hours, I just got off the phone with the sales manager of the Icon and posts on their Facebook page:

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Ciaran FitzPatrick
Has the Icon project been cancelled?
Like · · 5 hours ago via mobile


Claridge Condos
Hi Ciaran, no, it has not been cancelled - far from it! Units in Ottawa's newest, tallest, luxury condominium are going fast! Check here for more information on Claridge Icon: http://www.claridgeicon.com/

Unlike · Reply · 1 · about an hour ago
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This project is not scrapped... yet. They are still pushing units and will do so for a while into the new year. That being said the market is clearly slowing and he units are not selling anywhere near as fast as Claridge had hoped.

[jay2018]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

It's funny how some people are quick to judge and call Gen Y "lazy" or "spoiled" right off the bat...

I, for once, have worked hard during high school and during university and am glad to say I will be graduating debt free! But that still doesn't mean I can afford to buy my first place yet...

I'm not asking for luxury or a penthouse, I just want a reasonably nice place to live and call my own. A townhouse in Orleans = expensive, condo in downtown = expensive, house in kanata = expensive. There's not many options.

What frustrates me even more is that I have been living with several roomates and have spent over $50,000 in rent in the past 4 years with nothing to show for. Without being able to buy myself a first place and start building equity I will be forced to continue to rent for the next few years. And I still have a full time job with benefits and $2- dollars/hour but its still not enough when a mortgage comes to $1200/month + 325 fees, taxes, heating, hydro, TV, cable etc...

My issue with some is they want min wage to go up 40% and it would create tons of jobs then the other thing is some have this idea the cost of goods would be the same.

[trhgr]

Originally Posted by cr872190

This project is not scrapped... yet. They are still pushing units and will do so for a while into the new year. That being said the market is clearly slowing and he units are not selling anywhere near as fast as Claridge had hoped.

Sounds like good news to me. Although I never really loved the design of this building, I was so happy that such a tall tower would finally be built in Ottawa...

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by jay2018

My issue with some is they want min wage to go up 40% and it would create tons of jobs then the other thing is some have this idea the cost of goods would be the same.

Some would cost more, some wouldn't. When commercial rents in an area go up, the products don't necessarily go up. The same is true for wages.

Also, those making the least tend to 1) spend all their money, since they don't have the wiggle room to save, and 2) spend all their money LOCALLY since they generally can't afford to travel or buy luxury items.

Whereas, give a middle class person like me a raise and I'll probably either save it or spend it some place far away on an awesome trip.

As it was noted earlier in this chain, the minimum wage has not increased at the pace of prices, so there's an adjustment that probably needs to be made.

The current high rent, low wage, high unemployment state of affairs won't sustain itself forever.