Calgary Public Transit II

[fusili]

Originally Posted by joe498

Free-Fare Transit.


Primary reason our infrastructure lacks presently is the three following reasons:

- Lack of money
- Lack of ridership
- Outdated

What lack of ridership? Our LRT system is at capacity. We have the 10th largest rail system in North America by ridership: only NYC, Montreal, Toronto, DC, Chicago, Vancouver, San Francisco, Boston and Philly beat us. All those cities are more than 3 times our population and all use heavy rail (grade separated). We have the most successful light rail system (in terms of ridership) in the US and Canada. And I believe Rusty said that if we were in the US, we would be 2nd in ridership per capita only to New York.

Agreed about the lack of money, but man, we have anything but a lack of ridership.

[joe498]

Originally Posted by fusili

What lack of ridership? Our LRT system is at capacity. We have the 10th largest rail system in North America by ridership: only NYC, Montreal, Toronto, DC, Chicago, Vancouver, San Francisco, Boston and Philly beat us. All those cities are more than 3 times our population and all use heavy rail (grade separated). We have the most successful light rail system (in terms of ridership) in the US and Canada. And I believe Rusty said that if we were in the US, we would be 2nd in ridership per capita only to New York.

Agreed about the lack of money, but man, we have anything but a lack of ridership.

Perhaps I didn't explain that in depth enough.

The S.E. LRT is not getting more consideration presently due to a significant "lack of ridership". Presently the SE route does not have enough people to justify the length and cost.

Many people say the West LRT has to many empty cars mid day.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by joe498

Many people say the West LRT has to many empty cars mid day.

To bad it doesn't go to Mount Royal. That would have helped daytime ridership.

[CorporateWhore]

Regardless of line, the main different I see between the C-Train and one in a truly transit-oriented city, is that in Calgary that vast majority of riders use the train only to get to and from work. As soon as the weekend hits though, or they have something else to do (shop, go out, see friends), it's almost always car time.

The C-train was built like a commuter train, and is a commuter train in most respects. Until there are more lines that connect the spokes (instead of just adding more of them), ridership will be heavily tilted towards rush hour usage.

[floobie]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

Regardless of line, the main different I see between the C-Train and one in a truly transit-oriented city, is that in Calgary that vast majority of riders use the train only to get to and from work. As soon as the weekend hits though, or they have something else to do (shop, go out, see friends), it's almost always car time.

The C-train was built like a commuter train, and is a commuter train in most respects. Until there are more lines that connect the spokes (instead of just adding more of them), ridership will be heavily tilted towards rush hour usage.

Yeah, after driving through the city on Saturday to run some weekend errands, and having to endure more near-misses and psychos than I can count, I came home positively drained and irritable. I found myself wishing that I could've just hopped on a few trains instead. Transit is quite clearly optimized for commuting downtown. Some lines to connect our "spokes" would definitely help with that.

[Socguy]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

... As soon as the weekend hits though, or they have something else to do (shop, go out, see friends), it's almost always car time...

I learned quickly to avoid the train on weekends, it's unreliable. Maintenance must be done so I guess the logical time to do it is on weekends but the end result is a poor experience for the weekend user.

[J-D]

Originally Posted by Socguy

I learned quickly to avoid the train on weekends, it's unreliable. Maintenance must be done so I guess the logical time to do it is on weekends but the end result is a poor experience for the weekend user.

Especially long weekends. Bus, train, shuttle bus, train, bus... bus, train, shuttle bus, train, bus. That's just from point A-B (and back), forget about any errands in between.

The biggest problems with the train for me (outside of commuting downtown) are:

• Too many at-level crossings
• Double-tracking downtown
• Most stations are nowhere near walking distance to where I want to be - that is to say stores, shops, cafes, bars, etc.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by floobie

Yeah, after driving through the city on Saturday to run some weekend errands, and having to endure more near-misses and psychos than I can count, I came home positively drained and irritable. I found myself wishing that I could've just hopped on a few trains instead. Transit is quite clearly optimized for commuting downtown. Some lines to connect our "spokes" would definitely help with that.

A Quarry Park - Chinook - Glenmore - Westmount Campus - MRU - Westbrook line is the ticket. Even better if you could cross from Westbrook to the NWHUB at U of C.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MasterG

A Quarry Park - Chinook - Glenmore - Westmount Campus - MRU - Westbrook line is the ticket. Even better if you could cross from Westbrook to the NWHUB at U of C.

It exists. It's the 306. But change Chinook to Heritage and add Rockyview Hospital. Not sure when it will be extended to Quarry Park via Deerfoot Meadows.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by fusili

It exists. It's the 306. But change Chinook to Heritage and add Rockyview Hospital. Not sure when it will be extended to Quarry Park via Deerfoot Meadows.

Fire some bus only lanes on Glenmore and you got yourself a real bus route.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MasterG

Fire some bus only lanes on Glenmore and you got yourself a real bus route.

Because freeways are the best places for transit? As long as there are no stops, I guess it can be useful. But otherwise, it sucks.

[MalcolmTucker]

Council already rejected the best way to connect MRU with Macleod Trail, the bridge at the old freeway corridor crossing. Next best would be figuring out a way to get two lanes on top of the Glenmore dam!

[joe498]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Lofty+transit+plans+debated+Ward+forum/8989797/story.html

Double decker train from Okotoks to Airdrie using Existing Rail?

[AgentGibb]

Originally Posted by joe498

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Lofty+transit+plans+debated+Ward+forum/8989797/story.html

Double decker train from Okotoks to Airdrie using Existing Rail?

Probably not a terrible idea (depending on the cost), but not exactly a new one.

If there were a stop at CHB, it might be useful as a decent peak-hour capacity increase until improvements in the NCLRT corridor (wherever that ends up being) can go ahead. It would also be parallel to the existing south line, so could possible amount to a sort of "express" service there?

Thoughts?

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Council already rejected the best way to connect MRU with Macleod Trail, the bridge at the old freeway corridor crossing.

I'm drawing a blank...are you talking about 50th ave then a bridge over the elbow river?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I'm drawing a blank...are you talking about 50th ave then a bridge over the elbow river?

Yes.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by joe498

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Lofty+transit+plans+debated+Ward+forum/8989797/story.html

Double decker train from Okotoks to Airdrie using Existing Rail?

The lines off the main east west line shouldn't be a huge problem, but the 'last mile' issue into downtown would be pretty expensive to solve, since you would need to build more tracks.

Also wouldn't need to demolish anything, the rail station at Palliser Square is perfectly fine for tracks at the current ground level if you can use it. Bringing in tracks on a viaduct to get around capacity issues is likely, at which point you need to build an elevated terminal anyways. Two passenger terminals stacked on top of each other with no continuing trains, would that be a station? (the capacity mismatch from the east versus the west creates interesting issues. Access from the west can likely continue to be at grade.)

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The lines off the main east west line shouldn't be a huge problem, but the 'last mile' issue into downtown would be pretty expensive to solve, since you would need to build more tracks.

Also wouldn't need to demolish anything, the rail station at Palliser Square is perfectly fine for tracks at the current ground level if you can use it. Bringing in tracks on a viaduct to get around capacity issues is likely, at which point you need to build an elevated terminal anyways. Two passenger terminals stacked on top of each other with no continuing trains, would that be a station? (the capacity mismatch from the east versus the west creates interesting issues. Access from the west can likely continue to be at grade.)

Tracks from Airdrie and Okotoks both approach downtown from the east.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by AgentGibb

Probably not a terrible idea (depending on the cost), but not exactly a new one.

If there were a stop at CHB, it might be useful as a decent peak-hour capacity increase until improvements in the NCLRT corridor (wherever that ends up being) can go ahead. It would also be parallel to the existing south line, so could possible amount to a sort of "express" service there?

Thoughts?

Are Airdrie and Okotoks paying for it? As a Calgary tax payer I want my tax dollars (income and property) to go towards projects that grow Calgary's tax base not make it more appealing to live in a bedroom community.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by fusili

Because freeways are the best places for transit? As long as there are no stops, I guess it can be useful. But otherwise, it sucks.

They are not any better alternatives. Macleod is a half-freeway as an alternative. And a lengthy congested detour down to Heritage isn't worth it for those that are heading west of Glenmore, which is the real corridor you want to serve. Unless you separate the route from Macleod / Glenmore intersection and provide bus-only facilities to speed it up.

If there was a better connection , like a bus-only exit/ entrance to Chinook station that would be ideal as the exit from Glenmore wouldn't be so onerous.

Essentially what I want is a transit-way that keeps buses reliable through some of the worst congestion in the city. Currently the route does nothing to mitigate this, and even makes some turns that increase the travel time.

Keep in mind, I am talking about a 306 extension to Quarry Park. the rest of the route I am fine with. If they built a transit / ped bridge into Quarry Park across the Bow that links to Heritage then I am happy.