The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 145

Rico Rommheim · #**2881** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 1:50 AM**

Haha silly Canadian bilingualism...

"Métros pour Toronto"

Enfin! Une nouvelle extension pour le métro de Toronto!

Innsertnamehere · #**2882** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 2:45 AM**

for those unaware, this announcement is just another development in the mess that is the Scarborough RT replacement. Up until the end of august, the plan was to replace the RT with an LRT line, and extend it to centennial college & Sheppard ave. In august, literally days after the zoning applications were applied for the new stations, the province announces that it will allow a subway to be built if the city approves and the Federal government delivers the extra funds. $85 million in sunk funds for the LRT plan are assumed lost, and we enter this current bumbling mess. last week the Provincial Tranport Minister announced that they would be building a shorter subway to just Scarborough Town Centre (the current terminus of the RT), with only 2 stops. (on a 5.8km route that currently has 4 stops) The minister states that this is due to the feds refusing to communicate about funding. (they kept cancelling meetings with the minister) Then today, Harper announces he will fund it... All the while many people claim that the original LRT plan will be better as it is $1 billion less to construct, covers a larger area, and can be finished 3 years earlier.

a nice graphic showing the different options on the table by the National Post, the "City subway proposal" is now the one going through.

Chadillaccc · #**2883** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 2:51 AM**

West LRT phototour - extensive photos in the *spoiler* section beneath each primary photo

Downtown West/Kerby Station

Sunalta Station

Shaganappi Point Station

Westbrook Station

45th Street Station

Sirocco Station

69th Street Station

An example of an at-grade crossing, one of 4 on the West Line.

... and an example of the guideway types...

All photos by me.

J.OT13 · #**2884** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 1:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

for those unaware, this announcement is just another development in the mess that is the Scarborough RT replacement. Up until the end of august, the plan was to replace the RT with an LRT line, and extend it to centennial college & Sheppard ave. In august, literally days after the zoning applications were applied for the new stations, the province announces that it will allow a subway to be built if the city approves and the Federal government delivers the extra funds. $85 million in sunk funds for the LRT plan are assumed lost, and we enter this current bumbling mess. last week the Provincial Tranport Minister announced that they would be building a shorter subway to just Scarborough Town Centre (the current terminus of the RT), with only 2 stops. (on a 5.8km route that currently has 4 stops) The minister states that this is due to the feds refusing to communicate about funding. (they kept cancelling meetings with the minister) Then today, Harper announces he will fund it... All the while many people claim that the original LRT plan will be better as it is $1 billion less to construct, covers a larger area, and can be finished 3 years earlier.

a nice graphic showing the different options on the table by the National Post, the "City subway proposal" is now the one going through.

If I understand correctly, the original plan was to convert the Scarborough RT to LRT (thus become an extension of the Crosstown) and extend the line further north/east. The Province wants to convert the RT to full fledged subway as an extension of the green line, but the approved plan is to build a second line for Scarborough (while super high density old Toronto still has massive dead zones), the "city subway" that tunnels through a low density suburban area.

So they went from the best and cheapest plan (blue as LRT+ short dash), converting to LRT as part of the Crosstown and extending it to an area with the potential of densification, to a OK plan (blue), converting to heavy rail as part of the green subway line to the worst plan (long dash); building an underground subway under a low density suburban area.

What are the estimated prices for each of these proposals and who is paying for the winning proposal?

Doug · #**2885** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 2:23 PM**

That Scarborough plan is stupid. The Downtown Relief line is the only one that makes sense as heavy rail. Politics continue to confound.

Chadillaccc · #**2886** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 2:33 PM**

I think we're all with you on that one, Doug!

In my opinion, the DRL should have been built before the Crosstown!

WhipperSnapper · #**2887** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 3:39 PM**

Crosstown is more important than the downtown relief line.

caltrane74 · #**2888** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 3:50 PM**

Now that Crosstown is being built DRL should take priority.

Scarborough and everyone in it should be thrown in Lake Ontario.

Chadillaccc · #**2889** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 3:52 PM**

That's pretty harsh.

Oh, I didn't realize the crosstown was so needed.

nname · #**2890** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 4:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If I understand correctly, the original plan was to convert the Scarborough RT to LRT (thus become an extension of the Crosstown) and extend the line further north/east.

The original plan was to convert the SRT to LRT, but it will not part of the crosstown route due some scheduling and reliability issues with the at-grade section on Eglinton (that's what they said..). So in fact, both lines will terminate at Kennedy and there is still a transfer there.

What you refer to is the second (or third) plan that runs the entire crosstown route underground on Eglinton and connect the Scarborough LRT as one through route. This one cost about 1.5-2B more than the previous plan and is actually more expensive than the current subway plan.

WhipperSnapper · #**2891** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 4:01 PM**

The DRL would be largely a rush hour line while Crosstown is a necessary expansion of a diminutive network. There are alternatives tothe relief line as well. The Waterfront West LRT, Lakeshore West improvements (new and expanded stations) and the East Bayfront LRT would go a long way in providing relief for a fraction of the costs.

Some provincial minister must own property in Scarborough Centre

J.OT13 · #**2892** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 5:01 PM**

I don't see the point in spending a billion+ to convert the Scarborough RT if it doesn't become part of a longer line (Crosstown or Green line).

IMO, they shouldn't invest a cent on anything more than maintenance for Scarborough and prioritize the DORL once the Crosstown (which I think is a sensible investment) is complete.

This new "plan" is by far the biggest waste of transit money in Canadian history!

Ramako · #**2893** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't see the point in spending a billion+ to convert the Scarborough RT if it doesn't become part of a longer line (Crosstown or Green line).

IMO, they shouldn't invest a cent on anything more than maintenance for Scarborough and prioritize the DORL once the Crosstown (which I think is a sensible investment) is complete.

This new "plan" is by far the biggest waste of transit money in Canadian history!

The plan is to convert the SRT into an extension of the Bloor-Danforth subway line.

Innsertnamehere · #**2894** Posted **Sep 23, 2013, 6:49 PM**

The LRT replacement for the rt was not to be interlinked with Eglinton,
It was going to run independently. Eglinton crosstown was needed, the Eglinton bus is one of (if not the) busiest traditional bus route in North America. DRL is not just a relief line for bloor-Yonge, it also acts as relief to overloaded streetcar lines.

J.OT13 · #**2895** Posted **Sep 24, 2013, 12:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Our they building the City subway proposal and if so, what is the use of it exactly. To me it just looks like a subway line under low density suburbs. It isn't serving anything new. Or, is it a replacement for the SRT, in which case, I still don't get it.

vid · #**2896** Posted **Sep 24, 2013, 12:35 AM**

It's a replacement for the SRT, which is nearing the end of its useful life.

J.OT13 · #**2897** Posted **Sep 24, 2013, 12:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

It's a replacement for the SRT, which is nearing the end of its useful life.

So there taking out the SRT completely? If so, why not use the same right of way? I'm sure they could use some of the existing infrastructure.

Even then, I've never seen other cities replacing a rapid transit line 30 years after completion.

P. Alouishous · #**2898** Posted **Sep 24, 2013, 1:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So there taking out the SRT completely? If so, why not use the same right of way? I'm sure they could use some of the existing infrastructure.

Even then, I've never seen other cities replacing a rapid transit line 30 years after completion.

omg, just take 30 seconds and do a google search

J.OT13 · #**2899** Posted **Sep 24, 2013, 2:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by P. Alouishous

omg, just take 30 seconds and do a google search

Not that simple when there are a hell load of plans for one project. I just figured I could get a straight answer from a forum with people from the area. Even Harper doesn't seem to know what the heck he's funding.

Innsertnamehere · #**2900** Posted **Sep 24, 2013, 3:17 AM**

RT was an experiment for ICTS tech, (skytrain) was a failure. costs just as much to modernize to MKIII ICTS as it does to convert to LRT, so the plan was to convert to LRT to match the rest of the network being built. (note how it was a conversion) Ford went nuts claiming that it was going to interrupt street traffic (it won't) and called for a subway. Scarberians sucked it up and the liberals were forced their hand if they wanted to keep the Scarborough seat in the recent byelections. Feds give money, subway happens instead of conversion.